Trump makes surprise Christmas visit to troops in Iraq in first trip to combat zone

[*bfine32*]

(12-27-2018, 04:29 AM)Dill Wrote: Bels believes what he reads.  That seems a disqualification.

You believe Trump's "approval numbers are just fine in the military."  However your belief is not based on mere reading, but some other source?
Do you believe what you read too, just read different sources?

You are "free to believe" as anyone else in the forum. But I suspect some in the forum may be less free, given their adherence to standards of evidence.

My source is interaction with the Military Community on a daily basis and over 30 years experience in the field.

Military folks will go with the one who supports fully funding the Military. Of course they will balk at various trivialities.

Just providing an insight. Take it or leave it: I care not.

Without reading anything who do your think folks that have a large College debt will side with?

Candidate A: Cuts Military spending to fund a college debt relief program

Candidate B: Fully funds Military spending and holds students fully responsible for their debt incurred/

[GMDino]

(12-27-2018, 03:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My source is interaction with the Military Community on a daily basis and over 30 years experience in the field.

Military folks will go with the one who supports fully funding the Military. Of course they will balk at various trivialities.

Just providing an insight. Take it or leave it: I care not.

Without reading anything who do your think folks that have a large College debt will side with?

Candidate A: Cuts Military spending to fund a college debt relief program

Candidate B: Fully funds Military spending and holds students fully responsible for their debt incurred/

I'd start with not using them as background for a(nother) political rally and not lying to them about a pay raise.

[*Nately120*]

I haven't been this inspired since I saw that picture of Michael Dukakis in that tank.

[Beaker]

(12-26-2018, 04:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: Someone is worried about their ratings....

And no, I don't give him too much "credit" for finally going.  Until he shows signs of being a decent person/POTUS he doesn't get credit for simply doing what every other POTUS has done.

Why do you make the assumption that his visit is for ratings, yet every other president did it because they were a good person?

[GMDino]

(12-28-2018, 12:57 PM)Beaker Wrote: Why do you make the assumption that his visit is for ratings, yet every other president did it because they were a good person?

Did I say anything about the reasons for every other President?

Trump cares about what people think about Trump.  That's a fact.

[Belsnickel]

(12-28-2018, 12:57 PM)Beaker Wrote: Why do you make the assumption that his visit is for ratings, yet every other president did it because they were a good person?

I make that assumption. It is based on what I perceive as the motivations of presidents. Trump is the first president that I do not believe has the best interests of this country in mind. Other presidents have had a life of service to their people, while Trump has been nothing bust a capitalist conman, defrauding people of their money and running businesses into the ground, building what successes he has had on the backs of others while he slaps his name on it.

[Dill]

(12-27-2018, 03:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My source is interaction with the Military Community on a daily basis and over 30 years experience in the field.

Military folks will go with the one who supports fully funding the Military. Of course they will balk at various trivialities.

Just providing an insight. Take it or leave it: I care not.

Without reading anything who do your think folks that have a large College debt will side with?

Candidate A: Cuts Military spending to fund a college debt relief program

Candidate B: Fully funds Military spending and holds students fully responsible for their debt incurred/

??  I'm always reading something.   Trivialities?? like disdain for POWs and political deployments to the border?

Based upon my 30 years of experience interacting with the military community on a daily basis, I would say there is considerable overlap between people with college loan debt and the military community. Also, regarding the Army at least, there are are people who are not happy at all when they hear a president disparage POWs and Gold Star families.  And they sense when a commander in chief doesn't know what he is doing. As his policies impact military families negatively in service of politics rather than national defense, you'll find plenty in Navy and Air Force as well who put country before paychecks and pork in military budgets.  Marines will be the last on board, but they'll be on the anti-Trump train eventually.

I would further say you'd have to be reading something--and believing it--to assume Trump is for a fully funded military and Democrats are not.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10/15/support-for-trump-is-fading-among-active-duty-troops-new-poll-shows/

[Dill]

(12-28-2018, 12:57 PM)Beaker Wrote: Why do you make the assumption that his visit is for ratings, yet every other president did it because they were a good person?

I'll here take the liberty of adding my reasons to the accumulating pile.

Every other president has not so explicitly and weekly presented his actions as numbers and poll driven-- then waited years to visit troops in a conflict zone until criticism and sagging polls made it appear expedient. (Don't know if you have ever been in one, but conflict zones are notoriously dangerous and full of germs.)  

NO other president has publicly sacrificed ethical principles in foreign policy to potential arms sales.  No other president has disparaged POWs and Gold Star families.

Trump is not a good person and so does not act because he is a good person.

Just for the record, I will say that whenever Nixon visited troops it was with an eye to the polls and political gain.  So not EVERY other president.

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 03:21 PM)Dill Wrote: regarding the Army at least, there are are people who are not happy at all when they hear a president disparage POWs and Gold Star families.  And they sense when a commander in chief doesn't know what he is doing. As his policies impact military families negatively in service of politics than national defense, you'll find plenty in Navy and Air Force as well who put country before paychecks and pork in military budgets.

This.

Military personnel are generally more conservative than the general population but they are not a bunch of rubes that blindly follow Trump.

They know there is a problem when Trump claims to be smarter than the Generals.  I would think military men would side with their own like John Kelly and James Mattis over old Bone Spurs.

[*bfine32*]

(12-28-2018, 03:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

Military personnel are generally more conservative than the general population but they are not a bunch of rubes that blindly follow Trump.

They know there is a problem when Trump claims to be smarter than the Generals.  I would think military men would side with their own like John Kelly and James Mattis over old Bone Spurs.

I've freely said Military Service goes a long way with me and it is why my #1 choice this past election was Jim Webb. But once he joked about killing someone in combat; I knew his hopes were dashed. That's why I hoping this cycle Seth Moulton, Tom Cotton, and/or my man Alan West throw their hats into the ring.  

Of course many in the Military are appalled by the remarks trump makes, and may voice it in things such as approval ratings; but they are not ignorant and realize they are just words. They are not going to cut off their noses to spite their faces; nor would I expect any group to. And I do not know one person in the Military that didn't absolutely love Maddog and I supported his reason for resigning 100%.

[ballsofsteel]

You mean to tell me there are actually people who think Trump visited the troops WAS something other than a photoshoot to help his ratings, I have only one thing to say, to quote my good friend Brad, "WOW".

[Yojimbo]

Here’s a former 4 star general’s take on the visit:

https://amp.thisisinsider.com/barry-mccaffrey-trump-visit-us-troops-in-iraq-2018-12

“Former four-star Gen. Barry McCaffrey, who was awarded three Purple Heart medals, two Distinguished Service Crosses, and two Silver Stars, described Trump's visit as "embarrassing" and "entirely inappropriate"”

[*bfine32*]

(12-28-2018, 04:19 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: You mean to tell me there are actually people who think Trump visited the troops WAS something other than a photoshoot to help his ratings, I have only one thing to say, to quote my good friend Brad, "WOW".

Who knows, but if enough people keep saying it maybe any Service member whose morale was boosted by the visit will realize they were just "duped". At least we can hold out hope for that.

[Dill]

(12-28-2018, 04:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've freely said Military Service goes a long way with me and it is why my #1 choice this past election was Jim Webb. But once he joked about killing someone in combat; I knew his hopes were dashed. That's why I hoping this cycle Seth Moulton, Tom Cotton, and/or my man Alan West throw their hats into the ring.  

Of course many in the Military are appalled by the remarks trump makes, and may voice it in things such as approval ratings; but they are not ignorant and realize they are just words. They are not going to cut off their noses to spite their faces; nor would I expect any group to.

Wow. "just words."    

Not sure whether that shocks me more or the high hopes for Tom Cotton (who undercut his commander-in-chief during the Iran negotiations) or the out-of-control Alan West.

(12-28-2018, 04:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And I do not know one person in the Military that didn't absolutely love Maddog and I supported his reason for resigning 100%.

But did you support the principles of US foreign policy stated in his letter? Do person's in the military who "love" Mad Dog also agree with his affirmation of respect (and need) for allies, advocation of diplomacy, and insistence on an "unambiguous" approach to adversaries?  That's what I'm curious to know.  

[GMDino]

(12-28-2018, 04:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who knows, but if enough people keep saying it maybe any Service member whose morale was boosted by the visit will realize they were just "duped". At least we can hold out hope for that.

Or when they see they didn't get a "10% pay raise".

[Dill]

(12-28-2018, 04:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who knows, but if enough people keep saying it maybe any Service member whose morale was boosted by the visit will realize they were just "duped". At least we can hold out hope for that.

Trump and Fox will keep saying their morale was boosted.

That should balance things out for the "dupable" segment of the military, those for whom "repetition" is decisive, rather than critical analysis.

[*bfine32*]

(12-28-2018, 04:29 PM)Dill Wrote: Wow. "just words."    

Not sure whether that shocks me more or the high hopes for Tom Cotton (who undercut his commander-in-chief during the Iran negotiations) or the out-of-control Alan West.



But did you support the principles of US foreign policy stated in his letter? Do person's in the military who "love" Mad Dog also agree with his affirmation of respect (and need) for allies, advocation of diplomacy, and insistence on an "unambiguous" approach to adversaries?  That's what I'm curious to know.  

Be shocked all you want but IMO actions trump words.

As to Tom Cotton: Did Mad Dog just undercut his CiC or did he simply disagree with a move made by the administration?

West was never out of Control and a letter signed by 95 members of Congress support this.

Imagine my surprise that you only took issue with the GOP candidates listed.

Of course many in the Military support Mad Dog's character. So you need no longer be curious.

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 04:23 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Here’s a former 4 star general’s take on the visit:

https://amp.thisisinsider.com/barry-mccaffrey-trump-visit-us-troops-in-iraq-2018-12

“Former four-star Gen. Barry McCaffrey, who was awarded three Purple Heart medals, two Distinguished Service Crosses, and two Silver Stars, described Trump's visit as "embarrassing" and "entirely inappropriate"”

Who cares.

Trump has already made it clear that he knows more than the Generals.  Just ask any of his supporters. This McCaffrey guy is obviously just jealous.

[Beaker]

(12-28-2018, 01:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did I say anything about the reasons for every other President?

Trump cares about what people think about Trump.  That's a fact.

You assumed his reasons and compared him to every other President. Maybe they did it only for approval ratinga also.....you dont know. (Neither do I).

[fredtoast]

This thread reminds me of the "kneeling/anthem" threads where some vet would claim to know how all military people think until I posted a long list of veterans that were not offended by kneeling during the anthem.

Who caress about facts when you have the support of your echo chamber.