Trump supporters don't want to talk about Trump

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2018, 07:06 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: They all lie. Obama was the worst as his lies actually impacted hundreds of millions of people financially and their heallth with 2 biggest whoppers of all time with direct realationship tp getting American approval of Obama Care:

1. If you want to keep your doctor, you will keep your doctor.
2. A family will save $2500 per year with Obama Care.

The saddest part is he knew it was a lie as the architect of Obama Care told us (admitted) by the time the morons figure out the middle class are paying for it, they will have no chance to repeal it.

But, hey let's focus on if Hillary knew about a payment to some adult film star which has zero impact on someone else's life. 

The ACA has been such a great success that the Republicans have not been able to come up with anything better in 10 years now.  

Millions of people have coverage that could not afford it before, and to everyone else costs are not rising any more than they were before the ACA.

The impact has been overwhelmingly POSITIVE.  That is why the Republicans have never been able to repeal it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-14-2018, 07:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: His entire "build the wall" platform was based on lies about Mexican immigrants being bad people sent by the Mexican government.

Are there some people in the country illegally committing crimes other than being in the country illegally?  Clearly the answer is yes.  Not commenting on the validity of the wall, which I think is unnecessary, but only a blind person wouldn't concede that there are absolutely known criminals entering the country illegally.  Do I think the majority of those entering the country are economic migrants simply seeking a better life, absolutely.  That doesn't change the fact that there are criminal illegal immigrants in this country.  If I could, I'd show you the KNR reports we get from the DEA.  You'd stop mentioning this topic and you'd never plan a vacation to Mexico again.  We used to go down there all the time.  Great time, great food, great people.  You couldn't pay me to visit Mexico right now.

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2018, 07:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Are there some people in the country illegally committing crimes other than being in the country illegally?  Clearly the answer is yes.  Not commenting on the validity of the wall, which I think is unnecessary, but only a blind person wouldn't concede that there are absolutely known criminals entering the country illegally.  Do I think the majority of those entering the country are economic migrants simply seeking a better life, absolutely.  That doesn't change the fact that there are criminal illegal immigrants in this country.  If I could, I'd show you the KNR reports we get from the DEA.  You'd stop mentioning this topic and you'd never plan a vacation to Mexico again.  We used to go down there all the time.  Great time, great food, great people.  You couldn't pay me to visit Mexico right now.

So you don't mind all these lies stirring up hatred against decent hard working Mexican immigrants and even against the Mexican government?

In order to build support for a wall that will costs billions and not solve anything?

I think you just proved my point.  Trump supporters don't care about his lies even when they damage innocent people and waste billions of taxpayer dollars.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-14-2018, 07:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Are there some people in the country illegally committing crimes other than being in the country illegally?  Clearly the answer is yes.  Not commenting on the validity of the wall, which I think is unnecessary, but only a blind person wouldn't concede that there are absolutely known criminals entering the country illegally.  Do I think the majority of those entering the country are economic migrants simply seeking a better life, absolutely.  That doesn't change the fact that there are criminal illegal immigrants in this country.  If I could, I'd show you the KNR reports we get from the DEA.  You'd stop mentioning this topic and you'd never plan a vacation to Mexico again.  We used to go down there all the time.  Great time, great food, great people.  You couldn't pay me to visit Mexico right now.

(05-14-2018, 07:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you don't mind all these lies stirring up hatred against decent hard working Mexican immigrants and even against the Mexican government?

In order to build support for a wall that will costs billions and not solve anything?

I think you just proved my point.  Trump supporters don't care about his lies even when they damage innocent people and waste billions of taxpayer dollars.

I think the only point he just proved is that you aren't very good at reading comprehension.

"I think the wall is a unnecessary."
"So you hate Mexicans and Mexico."

Yes... that is precisely what he said.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-14-2018, 07:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you don't mind all these lies stirring up hatred against decent hard working Mexican immigrants and even against the Mexican government?

I'd call it an exaggeration, not a lie.  As I just took pains to point out, plenty of criminals enter the country illegally.

Quote:In order to build support for a wall that will costs billions and not solve anything?

Do I think the wall will solve anything, no.  You make the question impossible to answer directly when you base it on a false supposition.

Quote:I think you just proved my point.  Trump supporters don't care about his lies even when they damage innocent people and waste billions of taxpayer dollars.

The wall would make illegal entry more difficult.  To what degree is certainly up for debate.  IMO certainly not difficult enough to justify the cost.  As for the topic itself, illegal immigration is a hot button issue without the Trump exaggerations.  I don't think his exaggerations pushed the issue to the front page.  It was already there.

[*bfine32*]

As I said I think this thread illustrate exactly why Pro-Trump folks don't obsess about starting Trump threads as much as Anti-Trump folks like to talk threads. Hell. I've already been warned about my participation in this very thread.

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2018, 07:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think the only point he just proved is that you aren't very good at reading comprehension.

"I think the wall is a unnecessary."
"So you hate Mexicans and Mexico."

Yes... that is precisely what he said.

The very reason I question his support of Trump stirring up hatred against Mexicans is because he never said the wall would fix any problem.

I could see if he said "The lies were worth it because we have to have the wall", but he said "I don't care about the wall, yet I still don't care about Trump stirring up hatred toward Mexicans and the country itself".

See my point now?

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2018, 07:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'd call it an exaggeration, not a lie. 

Of course you would.

Thanks again for proving my point.  There is no evidence that Mexican immigrants have a higher crime rate than US citizens.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-14-2018, 07:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The very reason I question his support of Trump stirring up hatred against Mexicans

This never happened, stop lying.

Quote:I could see if he said "The lies were worth it because we have to have the wall", but he said "I don't care about the wall, yet I still don't care about Trump stirring up hatred toward Mexicans and the country itself".

See my point now?

Unless your point was that you deliberately twist people's statements and then blatantly lie about what they said, no.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-14-2018, 07:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of course you would.

Thanks again for proving my point.  There is no evidence that Mexican immigrants have a higher crime rate than US citizens.

Hahaha, this is why you amuse me so much.  You literally make up false claims made by others out of thin air.  The bench officers must love you.

[*bfine32*]

(05-14-2018, 07:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of course you would.

Thanks again for proving my point.  There is no evidence that Mexican immigrants have a higher crime rate than US citizens.

Unless they entered the country illegally, then US citizens would have to be at 100% to be equal. 

[hollodero]

(05-14-2018, 07:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because, as Matt said, he lies about stupid crap.  Name me one major policy issue that he has lied about (not that you just disagree with) and we'll address it. 

Well, define "major". Draining a swamp and throwing the lobbyists out of Washington is a major policy issue, right? He totally lied about his intentions there. There was no swamp drained. And lobbying became internationalized. See dimplomats in hotels, or Japan buying Kushner properties, and such. I think that's an important lie.

Then he totally lied about the tax cuts and how they are bad for himself. The lie is not just about himself, it's a major lie about the tax cuts not helping the super-rich like him. Which is a major lie about a major policy issue. Regarding these cuts, another lie concerned the deficit, and how growth will totally balance the deficit out. What a major lie that is.

He lied about his tax returns, how he would totally show them after no longer being under audit. That's not a major policy issue, but this was one of those that really showed, he considers all of his voters and all of the country suckers. He broke a promise, how could one not care at all about that.

He constantly lies about Eurpoe and especially London. Maybe you do not care, but the US' closest ally sure does. A hospital full of blood because of constant muslim knife attacks? This, of course, not only is offensive to others, it also paints a dire picture of muslims as a whole. Hard to believe this doesn't have consequences for all muslims in the US and elsewhere. Creating hatred is not trivial and unimportant.

He lies about the FBI and their intentions, painting them as part of a "deep state" and repeating every lie about that. Which corrodes trust and is a major issue, isn't it?

Oh, he also lied about milions of dead and/or illegal people voting for Hillary. This is nefarious. Regarding immigration, he lied about the lottery system and how it works. He lied about muslims cheering 9/11 in New York. He lied about terror attacks not being reported any longer. What do lies like that do with people who believe them?

- Doing research, I probably could go on for miles, and still no porn stars, birtherism or other petty stuff. I do understand that one comes to accept the lies as part of his personality. I do not get how one could be so casual about that.

[GMDino]

(05-14-2018, 06:34 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Actions not words GM, not a hard concept to grasp.  Remember when you wanted me to get all upset because Trump was going to enact gun control.  My response was that I'll get upset when he actually tries to do it rather than just talk about it.  Guess I made the right call.

Lies are actions.

Lies about what his actions are...lies to support his actions.

His lies are as important as his actions to people who pay attention and care.

[GMDino]

(05-14-2018, 07:06 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: They all lie. Obama was the worst as his lies actually impacted hundreds of millions of people financially and their heallth with 2 biggest whoppers of all time with direct realationship tp getting American approval of Obama Care:

1. If you want to keep your doctor, you will keep your doctor.
2. A family will save $2500 per year with Obama Care.

The saddest part is he knew it was a lie as the architect of Obama Care told us (admitted) by the time the morons figure out the middle class are paying for it, they will have no chance to repeal it.

But, hey let's focus on if Hillary knew about a payment to some adult film star which has zero impact on someone else's life. 

But "they all lie".  

So why are you still hurt that Obama lied to you and yet you don't care that Trump lies to you every day about everything?

[hollodero]

(05-14-2018, 10:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: But "they all lie".  

So why are you still hurt that Obama lied to you and yet you don't care that Trump lies to you every day about everything?

That is a fair question. Obama lied I guess around 5 years ago (I personally think it was more of a misconception, but ok), and it's brought up constantly ever since. That one thing, affecting around 2% of insurance takers (so possibly not even one person in here), that he did actually apologize for, kinda. But still, what disgusting lie, what disgusting president.

Yet when Trump's daily blatant lies are brought up, that sadly are confirmably just that, blatant lies, it's hysteria and waste of energy and playing gotcha games.

That doesn't make much sense. What people feel for themselves is not my business, but to suggest that others should logically feel the same way about Trump lies is strange.

[*bfine32*]

(05-14-2018, 10:51 PM)hollodero Wrote: That is a fair question. Obama lied I guess around 5 years ago (I personally think it was more of a misconception, but ok), and it's brought up constantly ever since. That one thing, affecting around 2% of insurance takers (so possibly not even one person in here), that he did actually apologize for, kinda. But still, what disgusting lie, what disgusting president.

Yet when Trump's daily blatant lies are brought up, that sadly are confirmably just that, blatant lies, it's hysteria and waste of energy and playing gotcha games.

That doesn't make much sense. What people feel for themselves is not my business, but to suggest that others should logically feel the same way about Trump lies is strange.

If I were to guess I'd say the last lie misconception Obama shared with the American Public was less than 5 years ago. WTS. Trump was not running against Obama (at least not legally); he was running against Hills. Now you don't have to answer, but ask yourself: would you or others be equally condemning of her lies. Remember this is a woman that had to run from sniper fire upon landing in Bosnia and knew nothing about the DNC's attempts to sway the nomination her way.

No doubt Mother Teresa is more honest than Trump, but to make an omelette sometimes you have to break a few eggs. 

[GMDino]

(05-14-2018, 10:51 PM)hollodero Wrote: That is a fair question. Obama lied I guess around 5 years ago (I personally think it was more of a misconception, but ok), and it's brought up constantly ever since. That one thing, affecting around 2% of insurance takers (so possibly not even one person in here), that he did actually apologize for, kinda. But still, what disgusting lie, what disgusting president.

Yet when Trump's daily blatant lies are brought up, that sadly are confirmably just that, blatant lies, it's hysteria and waste of energy and playing gotcha games.

That doesn't make much sense. What people feel for themselves is not my business, but to suggest that others should logically feel the same way about Trump lies is strange.

(05-14-2018, 11:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If I were to guess I'd say the last lie misconception Obama shared with the American Public was less than 5 years ago. WTS. Trump was not running against Obama (at least not legally); he was running against Hills. Now you don't have to answer, but ask yourself: would you or others be equally condemning of her lies. Remember this is a woman that had to run from sniper fire upon landing in Bosnia and knew nothing about the DNC's attempts to sway the nomination her way.

No doubt Mother Teresa is more honest than Trump, but to make an omelette sometimes you have to break a few eggs. 

"It doesn't matter if Trump lies because Hillary."   

And

"It's okay of Trump lies because he's making something."  

[NATI BENGALS]

(05-14-2018, 11:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If I were to guess I'd say the last lie misconception Obama shared with the American Public was less than 5 years ago. WTS. Trump was not running against Obama (at least not legally); he was running against Hills. Now you don't have to answer, but ask yourself: would you or others be equally condemning of her lies. Remember this is a woman that had to run from sniper fire upon landing in Bosnia and knew nothing about the DNC's attempts to sway the nomination her way.

No doubt Mother Teresa is more honest than Trump, but to make an omelette sometimes you have to break a few eggs. 

If Hillary paid off a porn star and lied about it and had our national security adviser and other members of her campaign indicted and had a bunch of people in the white house who couldnt get security clearance and then paraded out Chelsea Clinton for an ill advised embassy move with shitloads of people getting killed. Plenty of democrats would be giving her hell and on board for impeachment. Republicans heads would have already exploded in nuclear fashion.

[*bfine32*]

(05-14-2018, 11:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: "It doesn't matter if Trump lies because Hillary."   

And

"It's okay of Trump lies because he's making something."  

Where the hell did you come up with that? 

[Dill]

(05-14-2018, 07:06 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: They all lie. Obama was the worst as his lies actually impacted hundreds of millions of people financially and their heallth with 2 biggest whoppers of all time with direct realationship tp getting American approval of Obama Care:

1. If you want to keep your doctor, you will keep your doctor.
2. A family will save $2500 per year with Obama Care.

The saddest part is he knew it was a lie as the architect of Obama Care told us (admitted) by the time the morons figure out the middle class are paying for it, they will have no chance to repeal it.
But, hey let's focus on if Hillary knew about a payment to some adult film star which has zero impact on someone else's life. 

This is really puzzling.

Bush lied us into a war which killed 4,500 Americans unnecessarily and blew up the Middle East, for which we are still paying. It was on his watch that we experienced the worst recession since the depression. He ratified laws which helped drug companies at the expense of American consumers. I could go on, but my point is simply to express amazement at your assessment of Obama. What are your criteria for determining who was a good or bad president? 

Nothing Obama did was remotely as harmful as what Bush did. And I don't buy that Obama "lied" about health care.  Millions of families DO save under Obamacare, and millions have healthcare who otherwise wouldn't.  Governors of 19 Republican states refused to implement the Medicare expansion offered under the ACA, leaving millions with inadequate to no coverage. Most of the difficulties the ACA has experienced derive from massive Republican resistance and disinformation.  Add to that the guy killed bin Laden and brought the US 7 years of steady growth in the economy and employment.  

Trump did all he could to destroy the ACA with nothing practical to replace it. Do you suppose healthcare prices would fall if Trump and the Republicans were successful downsizing the ACA, Medicare, and Medicaid? If Trump hasn't hurt millions yet, he is certainly trying, both at home and abroad.

You might not be concerned about Trump's porn adventures, but aside from sliming the highest office in the land, he paid a porn star from a fund fed with Russian money from close to the Kremlin. Why would anyone think that bad character and poor judgment have no effect on Trump's ability to protect the country and manage the economy?

How can you be so angry with Obama, who certainly did not lie all day about everything, but give Trump a pass, who lies all day about everything?

 Maybe "they all lie," but some lies, like some personal behavior and some national policies, are much worse that others.