US income inequality continues to grow

[*michaelsean*]

(07-25-2018, 04:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I started doing my whole lengthy post thing, then scrapped it. I'm not sure of the figures, but it would've definitely been a higher percentage given the top tax rate at 91%, though you'd have to make around $3,148,000 in 2013 dollars to reach that mark. Also, at the time capital gains were taxed at a higher rate than they are, today.

From what I understand virtually nobody paid anywhere near that as you could deduct everything under the sun.  

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2018, 08:04 PM)Beaker Wrote: A single individual does not change the system, but individuals make up the economy. So you can begin to change the system one individual at a time. as more fortunes change, the economy changes with them.

This is absurd.

Tell me exactly what each individual person has to do in order to help the wages of the middle class that have been stagnate for 40 years.  I want details.  

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2018, 08:07 PM)Beaker Wrote: And every individual makes different choices of what to do with their income. So what is a comfortable living wage for one person might be considered a non-livable wage by another who is not making wise choices. Does that mean the company is exploiting labor?

How a person spends their money has nothing to do with how much they are getting paid.


If workers become more productive and create greater profits for the owner then they should get a share.  If they don't then they are being exploited.

If some child works for .50 an hour but is able to survive by eating garbage from a dumpster that does not mean he is not getting exploited.

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2018, 04:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: From what I understand virtually nobody paid anywhere near that as you could deduct everything under the sun.  

I don't know how accurate that is. I looked at a 1040 from 1960 and I didn't see too many more deductions than what we have now.

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2018, 08:28 PM)Beaker Wrote: I dont disagree that the system is ponderous and slow to change. But you have to start somewhere. What better place than working to better your own situation? Obstacles are there to be overcome.

Again this is absurd.  

Do you think that blacks in the Jim Crow south could have fixed their situation without government assistance?

The only people who believe this BS are people who never really had any obstacles in life.

[fredtoast]

(07-25-2018, 04:03 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Those are the tax rates.  I'm asking about percentage of taxes paid as that would indicate burden.  This one only goes back to 1979, but from there the tax burden has decreased on the lower earners and increased on the higher earners.  

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/shares-federal-tax-liabilities-all-households

Edit:  This doesn't account for rate of increase income, but the lower ends are not carrying a higher burden of the taxes.  I think the bottom 40% or something like that actually pay an effective rate of zero.

You don't know how to look at the numbers.

For example from 1979 to 2004 the income of the top 1% increased 167% while their share of income tax only increased 68% (14.1 to 23.7)

They are paying more because their income has increased much more than everyone else.  But when you look at the percentage of increase in their income it is much greater than their increase in percentage of the tax liability.  So dollar or dollar they are paying a lower percentage than they were in 1979.

The "burden" has shifted because the share of income has shifted, but the "Burden" for the top 1% has not grown as much as their increase in income.

[Belsnickel]

This is as good a place as any:

[XenoMorph]

(07-25-2018, 05:43 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is as good a place as any:

if those melinials would come to work and earn their paycheck that number might be different..

but they don't they leave asap.. or just quit.  (I'm sure its not all of them but see it all the time where I work...  )

[fredtoast]

(07-25-2018, 05:47 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: if those melinials would come to work and earn their paycheck that number might be different..

but they don't they leave asap.. or just quit.  (I'm sure its not all of them but see it all the time where I work...  )

Unemployment rate in 1977 was over 7%.  So there were more lazy people refusing to work back then than today.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-25-2018, 05:43 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is as good a place as any:

I would say that's adjusted for inflation.  I don't think there's a chance it was $34,000 in 1977. If you adjust the income and not the price of something, then it's just misleading.

[*bfine32*]

(07-25-2018, 05:43 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is as good a place as any:

Not that I don't enjoy getting my hard data via Memes, but does that one have a source?

[Benton]

(07-25-2018, 05:47 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: if those melinials would come to work and earn their paycheck that number might be different..

but they don't they leave asap.. or just quit.  (I'm sure its not all of them but see it all the time where I work...  )

I don't think it matters much. The last company I worked for instituted a pay freeze in the late 90s. That was when they froze the mileage reimbursement rate at 25 cents, too, which was already less than the federal rate back then. Basically, after the guy who had been CFO died, the (then) fresh out of Yale guy came in and kept everything flat for 30 years. Why? Because it made the company more profitable.

[*bfine32*]

(07-25-2018, 05:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I would say that's adjusted for inflation.  I don't think there's a chance it was $34,000 in 1977.  If you adjust the income and not the price of something, then it's just misleading.

https://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php

Well, it's hard to say with complete certainty but if you look at the census bureau. The household median income for 1977 was around $12,000 and for 2014 it was around $53,000. Now if you adjust for inflation they are much closer. 

Could be that someone is trying to mislead with the meme.  

[*michaelsean*]

(07-25-2018, 06:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php

Well, it's hard to say with complete certainty but if you look at the census bureau. The household median income for 1977 was around $12,000 and for 2014 it was around $53,000. Now if you adjust for inflation they are much closer. 

Could be that someone is trying to mislead with the meme.  

It’s the equivalent of $139,000 according to inflation calculator. Not sure if Ian got confused or is trying to mislead people.

[*bfine32*]

(07-25-2018, 06:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It’s the equivalent of $139,000 according to inflation calculator. Not sure if Ian got confused or is trying to mislead people.

I'm sure Matt researched the validity of the meme before posting. 

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2018, 05:47 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: if those melinials would come to work and earn their paycheck that number might be different..

but they don't they leave asap.. or just quit.  (I'm sure its not all of them but see it all the time where I work...  )

I'm a Millennial. My adult jobs have lasted 4 years (layoffs) and my current one is at 6. My income isn't much higher than that median shown.

(07-25-2018, 06:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php

Well, it's hard to say with complete certainty but if you look at the census bureau. The household median income for 1977 was around $12,000 and for 2014 it was around $53,000. Now if you adjust for inflation they are much closer. 

Could be that someone is trying to mislead with the meme.  

(07-25-2018, 06:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It’s the equivalent of $139,000 according to inflation calculator. Not sure if Ian got confused or is trying to mislead people.

I have no idea if the numbers are accurate; never really claimed they were. The overall point is damaged if the numbers are inaccurate (I say if because the information being thrown around here doesn't show it to be), but the overall point that the current economic situation for Millennials is worse than the previous two generations at our age and it isn't getting any better.

[*bfine32*]

(07-25-2018, 07:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm a Millennial. My adult jobs have lasted 4 years (layoffs) and my current one is at 6. My income isn't much higher than that median shown.



I have no idea if the numbers are accurate; never really claimed they were. The overall point is damaged if the numbers are inaccurate (I say if because the information being thrown around here doesn't show it to be), but the overall point that the current economic situation for Millennials is worse than the previous two generations at our age and it isn't getting any better.

So you posted a meme with no idea if the numbers are accurate? That's one of the biggest contributors to the divide we see. Someone may look at the meme and take it as fact. 

You can go with what you think the meme was trying to articulate (the overall point) and I'll go with it was trying to deceive.

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2018, 07:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you posted a meme with no idea if the numbers are accurate? That's one of the biggest contributors to the divide we see. Someone may look at the meme and take it as fact. 

You can go with what you think the meme was trying to articulate (the overall point) and I'll go with it was trying to deceive.

I expect you will be holding everyone to these same sort of standards going forward, since we know it hasn't been that way up until now.

[*bfine32*]

(07-25-2018, 07:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I expect you will be holding everyone to these same sort of standards going forward, since we know it hasn't been that way up until now.

Nah, I've come to expect some in this forum to be a hopeless cause; I expect more from some.  But I like to think I call BS regardless which side of the aisle it's on. I know I used to with Lucie; unfortunately with him permanently banned the BS is kind of one sided.

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2018, 07:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nah, I've come to expect some in this forum to be a hopeless cause; I expect more from some.  But I like to think I call BS regardless which side of the aisle it's on. I know I used to with Lucie; unfortunately with him permanently banned the BS is kind of one sided.

It's decreased, but definitely not gone from your side. It's just not as blatant as some of what is on my side.