Aleppo now freed from the rebels!

[GMDino]

(12-14-2016, 03:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guess "smart" is one word that could describe someone who would abandon their country and those too sick and/or old to seek refuge. Lots of smart guys jumped in front of women, elderly, and children on the Titanic; but they lived to "fight" another day. 

Seriously?  

The Titanic?

What was left to "fight" for against the boat? LMAO!

But I know, I know..."real men" fight even when they are outnumbered, outgunned and sure to die because "real men".

Any man who left his wife and children to die and ran is a coward.

Any man who didn't but left to find a safer/better place to perhaps someday go back is not.

You can pass judgement on the entire group if you wish.  I do not.

[*bfine32*]

(12-14-2016, 04:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: Seriously?  

The Titanic?

What was left to "fight" for against the boat? LMAO!

Nothing left to fight for. That's why the "smart" men jumped in front of women, children, and elderly.

[GMDino]

(12-14-2016, 04:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nothing left to fight for. That's why the "smart" men jumped in front of women, children, and elderly.

I bet they would have been smart enough to respond to the entire post I made.

[*bfine32*]

(12-14-2016, 05:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: I bet they would have been smart enough to respond to the entire post I made.

There was nothing else to respond to other than a failed attempt at sarcasm and the final line about how awesome you are.

You were the one that found it important to share with everyone something you had been told. Just making sure you shared all you were told and not just the part you wanted.

I am aware that many folks have a flight or fright mentality; however, that is no reason to assert that those that stay and fight or to render aid are not smart. 

[SunsetBengal]

Thank you all for posting. I have learned a lot from your responses, stuff that would have taken way to long to gather and decipher through reading news posts and stories alone. I'll say this; 'Zona, Matt, Benton, Oncemoretothebreech, Pat, each of you really could easily teach classes or hold briefings on World affairs. I'll admit that I'm a bit lazy, when it comes to keeping myself educated on those topics. That is why, when I read the story that I posted in the OP, I wanted to generate some conversation, particularly from some of you that I value as "higher opinions".

As far as I can gather, the situation over there is more tangled up than a can of worms. It's really hard to tell who the "bad guys" are, as they all seem to take turns being the evil ones.

[Benton]

(12-14-2016, 06:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Thank you all for posting.  I have learned a lot from your responses, stuff that would have taken way to long to gather and decipher through reading news posts and stories alone.  I'll say this;  'Zona, Matt, Benton, Oncemoretothebreech, Pat, each of you really could easily teach classes or hold briefings on World affairs.  I'll admit that I'm a bit lazy, when it comes to keeping myself educated on those topics.  That is why, when I read the story that I posted in the OP, I wanted to generate some conversation, particularly from some of you that I value as "higher opinions".

As far as I can gather, the situation over there is more tangled up than a can of worms.  It's really hard to tell who the "bad guys" are, as they all seem to take turns being the evil ones.

for a while I thought it was as simple as "al qaeda became Isis" but there really is a lot more to it. Factions of "bad" guys are fighting factions of "good" guys. Next week, they're allied and what we classified as good is now bad.

honestly, ill celebrate the day we get out of the me and just provide a safe place for people looking to escape dictatorships and extremists

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-14-2016, 06:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Thank you all for posting.  I have learned a lot from your responses, stuff that would have taken way to long to gather and decipher through reading news posts and stories alone.  I'll say this;  'Zona, Matt, Benton, Oncemoretothebreech, Pat, each of you really could easily teach classes or hold briefings on World affairs.  I'll admit that I'm a bit lazy, when it comes to keeping myself educated on those topics.  That is why, when I read the story that I posted in the OP, I wanted to generate some conversation, particularly from some of you that I value as "higher opinions".

As far as I can gather, the situation over there is more tangled up than a can of worms.  It's really hard to tell who the "bad guys" are, as they all seem to take turns being the evil ones.

yes it is a cluster eff over there.
With the exceptions of a few, Who ever has the money/guns to pass out is who they are fighting for today.

Remember that Journalist that was captured by ISIS? later he figured out who his captor was, a Rebel Leader, that should tell you how messed up it is,

[Belsnickel]

(12-14-2016, 06:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Thank you all for posting. I have learned a lot from your responses, stuff that would have taken way to long to gather and decipher through reading news posts and stories alone. I'll say this; 'Zona, Matt, Benton, Oncemoretothebreech, Pat, each of you really could easily teach classes or hold briefings on World affairs. I'll admit that I'm a bit lazy, when it comes to keeping myself educated on those topics. That is why, when I read the story that I posted in the OP, I wanted to generate some conversation, particularly from some of you that I value as "higher opinions".

As far as I can gather, the situation over there is more tangled up than a can of worms. It's really hard to tell who the "bad guys" are, as they all seem to take turns being the evil ones.

I appreciate the compliment, but in truth I just dabble in the world affairs stuff. This is why I have my broad statement compared to Benton's more detailed information. I am much more of a domestic policy guy.

[Dill]

(12-14-2016, 03:11 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It's a civil war. The rebels are trying to overthrow Assad.  At least some of the Syrian rebels are fighting ISIS. ISIS is fighting Iraq, the Kurds, the Syrian Rebels, and anyone else who would interfere with their Sunni caliphate. Combating Assad and ISIS is why the US is supporting some of the Syrian rebel groups. We also support the Kurds to fight ISIS. The Kurds are fighting the Turks who are our NATO allies. Assad tolerates ISIS to a degree because they are combating the rebels which hope to over throw him. Iran is supporting ISIS, Assad, and the anti-Sunni Iraqi government to increase their influence in the region. Russia is supporting Assad so it doesn't create a post -Assad power vacuum ala post-Saddam Iraq for their interest in the region. Saudi Arabia has supported the rebels and ISIS to overthrow Assad and decrease Iran's influence. We support Saudi Arabia which means we are indirectly supporting ISIS which we are simultaneously trying to destroy in a Sunni-Shia proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. 

It sounds confusing, but it isn't even that simple. It's one of the great blunders.

I didn't even mention Isreal. LOL

. . . and Al Nusra.

Why do you say Iran is supporting ISIS? That confuses the statement about a Sunni-Shia proxy war over ISIS.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-15-2016, 12:57 AM)Dill Wrote: . . . and Al Nusra.

Why do you say Iran is supporting ISIS? That confuses the statement about a Sunni-Shia proxy war over ISIS.

You're right. I got that wrong. Which means in the fight against ISIS, Iran and the US have a common foe. While normally friendly, Iran and Russia are backing opposing forces. Strange bedfellows. 

[Dill]

(12-15-2016, 01:35 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You're right. I got that wrong. Which means in the fight against ISIS, Iran and the US have a common foe. While normally friendly, Iran and Russia are backing opposing forces. Strange bedfellows. 

LOL you nailed it there! FOUR strange bedfellows.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-15-2016, 03:47 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL you nailed it there! FOUR strange bedfellows.

Also, I don't believe it is a proxy war over ISIS, but rather over control of the region. ISIS has its own reasons, but is a tool used by Iran to increase their influence. Even Saudi Arabia has (not so) secretly supported ISIS (arms, funding) to destabilize Assad's government to counter Iran's influence. 

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2016-02-08/saudi-offer-to-send-troops-to-syria-comes-with-uncertainty

Arm ISIS. Destabilize Syria. Send ground troops into Syria to combat the problem they helped foment so they could send in ground troops which would allow them to further destabilize/overthrow Assad's government. 

[Dill]

(12-15-2016, 12:11 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Also, I don't believe it is a proxy war over ISIS, but rather over control of the region. ISIS has its own reasons, but is a tool used by Iran to increase their influence. Even Saudi Arabia has (not so) secretly supported ISIS (arms, funding) to destabilize Assad's government to counter Iran's influence. 

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2016-02-08/saudi-offer-to-send-troops-to-syria-comes-with-uncertainty

Arm ISIS. Destabilize Syria. Send ground troops into Syria to combat the problem they helped foment so they could send in ground troops which would allow them to further destabilize/overthrow Assad's government. 

Yes, I think that is correct.  ISIS allows Iran to deeply penetrate Iraqi politics and military. But of course it has to fight them too since they are killing Shia by the bushel.

I am thankful that now we have a president elect who knows more than the generals. He will sort this out for everyone, it just follow his lead.

[*bfine32*]

Figured this should go here:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-ambassador-turkey-attacked-photo-162708197.html

Quote:A Turkish policeman fatally shot Russia's ambassador to Turkey on Monday in front of a shocked audience at a photo exhibit and then, pacing near the body of his victim, appeared to condemn Russia's military role in Syria, shouting: "Don't forget Aleppo! Don't forget Syria!"....

The gunman shouted about Aleppo in Turkish, and also yelled "Allahu akbar," the Arabic phrase for "God is great," continuing in Arabic: "We are the descendants of those who supported the Prophet Muhammad, for jihad."

[Benton]

(12-19-2016, 07:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Figured this should go here:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-ambassador-turkey-attacked-photo-162708197.html

Russia's response so far has been hopeful, in terms if Russia and Turkey having good relations. It will be interesting how it goes forward in their actions against terrorists who, mostly, have been confined to fighting just the ones opposing Assad.

[*bfine32*]

(12-19-2016, 10:49 PM)Benton Wrote: Russia's response so far has been hopeful, in terms if Russia and Turkey having good relations. It will be interesting how it goes forward in their actions against terrorists who, mostly, have been confined to fighting just the ones opposing Assad.

I understand Russia and Turkey are working to evacuate folks out of the area; however, it is being met with resistance by the rebels 

[Dill]

(12-19-2016, 10:49 PM)Benton Wrote: Russia's response so far has been hopeful, in terms if Russia and Turkey having good relations. It will be interesting how it goes forward in their actions against terrorists who, mostly, have been confined to fighting just the ones opposing Assad.

According to Nina Kruscheva, Putin is blaming the US press for making Russia look bad, just because they killed a lot of women and children in Aleppo. This is in the Russian language press, not the English or Turkish.

[Benton]

(12-20-2016, 04:21 AM)Dill Wrote: According to Nina Kruscheva, Putin is blaming the US press for making Russia look bad, just because they killed a lot of women and children in Aleppo. This is in the Russian language press, not the English or Turkish.

If the ushanka fits, wear it.