Utah parents complained a HS athlete might be transgender after she beat daughter

[*Nately120*]

(09-07-2022, 02:54 PM)ATOTR Wrote: To preserve womens sports, I’d say that’s a worthwhile endeavor.

Are women's sports really that important to us in the USA?  I mean, we have a womens soccer team that has achieved far more than the mens team ever will on the global stage and most of the country doesn't even care and/or hates them.  The WNBA probably makes as much as a year as the NBA makes in a single game, and women on football fields are either treated as a lesbian-heavy sideshow act or softcore pornography. We have female tennis players and gymnasts who are thrust into immense pressure and the highest level of competitions while still teenagers who are at times systematically sexually abused.

Ida know, this country ain't doing so hot at protecting or promoting women.  Women probably want stuff like bodily autonomy and maternity leave and equal pay, but we're not going to get to shove around trans people helping them out in that manner, so this is what they get.  What a noble quest we undertake for them.

Ok that's a cynical take, but meh...this all seems like some misplaced white knighting incel stuff, too.

[ATOTR]

(09-07-2022, 03:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Are women's sports really that important to us in the USA?  I mean, we have a womens soccer team that has achieved far more than the mens team ever will on the global stage and most of the country doesn't even care and/or hates them.  The WNBA probably makes as much as a year as the NBA makes in a single game, and women on football fields are either treated as a lesbian-heavy sideshow act or softcore pornography. We have female tennis players and gymnasts who are thrust into immense pressure and the highest level of competitions while still teenagers who are at times systematically sexually abused.

Ida know, this country ain't doing so hot at protecting or promoting women.  Women probably want stuff like bodily autonomy and maternity leave and equal pay, but we're not going to get to shove around trans people helping them out in that manner, so this is what they get.  What a noble quest we undertake for them.

Ok that's a cynical take, but meh...this all seems like some misplaced white knighting incel stuff, too.

LOL.  More democrats support letting men compete vs women than oppose it.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1107484965/transgender-athletes-trans-rights-gender-transition-poll

The NPR/Ipsos poll shows that nearly two-thirds of Americans (63%) are opposed to allowing transgender women and girls to compete on teams that align with their gender identity, while 24% overall support that.


Among Democrats, opinion is fairly split: a plurality, 46%, support trans female athletes' right to compete on women's and girls sports teams, while 41% oppose it.
Independent voters oppose trans female athletes right to compete by 3:1 (21% support; 63% oppose).


Among Republicans, support plummets to just 4%, while 88% oppose.

[Matt_Crimson]

What the hell happened in this thread.

[*Nately120*]

(09-07-2022, 04:04 PM)ATOTR Wrote: LOL.  More democrats support letting men compete vs women than oppose it.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1107484965/transgender-athletes-trans-rights-gender-transition-poll

I'll admit it seems strange to me, but there was also a time when letting black people compete against white people in sports was seen as the end of the world and an issue of utmost importance too, so who knows. 

But again as I point out, I mostly played soccer and tennis in school and they were co-ed leagues so the idea of both males and females having some chance of competing against each other wasn't really something that was on my mind.  Same thing with boys and girls on wrestling teams...again, it just seems odd that we need laws to protect girls from competing against boys unless the sport is soccer or tennis or wrestling in which case there isn't enough interest to divide the genders so the entire threat goes out the window.

The only team I played on that was a "boys team" in my grade school and high school days as basketball and I sat the bench because I was a short scrawny kid who wasn't born tall. I should have cried genetic unfairness since my ol' man was 5'6 if that. I never had a chance, damn it. Man, there was this one scrimmage we played against a team of tall black guys and I recall going out there in garbage time and I didn't want to even attempt to drive towards the basket so I just launched a prayer of a shot from the 3 point line and this black guy who was probably a foot taller than me jumped up and slapped the ball into the 17th row of the bleachers. I think at that point I was just like "This is why I just want to stay home and play nintendo."

I know genetics aren't everything, but it's a big thing...penis or not.

[BigPapaKain]

(09-07-2022, 02:54 PM)ATOTR Wrote: To preserve womens sports, I’d say that’s a worthwhile endeavor.

Sports - important

Bodily autonomy - ehhhh not so much.

As I said, tackling the important issues.

[*Nately120*]

(09-07-2022, 04:48 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Sports - important

Bodily autonomy - ehhhh not so much.

As I said, tackling the important issues.

Well, there is plenty of time to care about a lot of issues including this one.

With that being said, it does seem like conservatives are pretty keen on protecting women and children from a very convenient list of people they already don't seem to like.
- trans people
- gay people
- liberals
- teachers
- thugs
- immigrants


Everyone is out to get women and children except straight white men, who coincidentally make up the majority of sex offenders.  I will say it would have seemed like a school-level hazing prank if I lost at tennis to a girl and my teammates demanded that I pull down my pants to show them that I didn't have a vagina.  I just never thought this sort of thing would be treated like a matter of national security.


EDIT - It's gotta be the trans thing that is triggering people on this one, because my memory was that the response to the feminist movement was along the lines of "Fine, if you want equal treatment, then you don't get to complain if you have to compete vs a male in a sport" and so on.  The more blatant version of that was "When it comes to women I believe in equal rights....and lefts."

Again, I have a different perspective since male and females in competition and on the same team was pretty by the book in my experience.  I feel like the whole trans aspect is what is suddenly making people forget that co-ed sports were and are still quite common. 

[ATOTR]

(09-07-2022, 04:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll admit it seems strange to me, but there was also a time when letting black people compete against white people in sports was seen as the end of the world and an issue of utmost importance too, so who knows. 

But again as I point out, I mostly played soccer and tennis in school and they were co-ed leagues so the idea of both males and females having some chance of competing against each other wasn't really something that was on my mind.  Same thing with boys and girls on wrestling teams...again, it just seems odd that we need laws to protect girls from competing against boys unless the sport is soccer or tennis or wrestling in which case there isn't enough interest to divide the genders so the entire threat goes out the window.

The only team I played on that was a "boys team" in my grade school and high school days as basketball and I sat the bench because I was a short scrawny kid who wasn't born tall.  I should have cried genetic unfairness since my ol' man was 5'6 if that.  I never had a chance, damn it.  Man, there was this one scrimmage we played against a team of tall black guys and I recall going out there in garbage time and I didn't want to even attempt to drive towards the basket so I just launched a prayer of a shot from the 3 point line and this black guy who was probably a foot taller than me jumped up and slapped the ball into the 17th row of the bleachers.  I think at that point I was just like "This is why I just want to stay home and play nintendo."

I know genetics aren't everything, but it's a big thing...penis or not.

So you were so bad, girls would just beat you straight up.   Good for them 

[*Nately120*]

(09-07-2022, 05:27 PM)ATOTR Wrote: So you were so bad, girls would just beat you straight up.   Good for them 

You forgot to congratulate the black guys for making my white ass look like the inferior race, too.

Seriously though, you completely undermining your own points to insult me is pretty humorous.  But you demeaning me about being "bad enough" to lose to girls might be kind of hot if you were a woman.  Also, why is it shameful to lose to a female at something?  The average American male is a lazy fatass who could be dismantled in a lot of sports by a lot of women with training, especially professionals. 

Also, I don't think I actually admitted to losing to a girl straight-up, either (they were probably secretly dudes, anyways).  Seriously though, I just wanted to provide some perspective from someone with some experience on treating people like competitors and not walking penises/vaginas.

[ATOTR]

(09-07-2022, 05:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You forgot to congratulate the black guys for making my white ass look like the inferior race, too.

Seriously though, you completely undermining your own points to insult me is pretty humorous.  But you demeaning me about being "bad enough" to lose to girls might be kind of hot if you were a woman.  Also, why is it shameful to lose to a female at something?  The average American male is a lazy fatass who could be dismantled in a lot of sports by a lot of women with training, especially professionals. 

Also, I don't think I actually admitted to losing to a girl straight-up, either (they were probably secretly dudes, anyways).  Seriously though, I just wanted to provide some perspective from someone with some experience on treating people like competitors and not walking penises/vaginas.

Your perspective is so outlandish, no one could possibly take you seriously. 

It is like you're trying to be a troll of a troll - that would sort of be clever.  But you are just you, and that is hilarious. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-07-2022, 05:56 PM)ATOTR Wrote: Your perspective is so outlandish, no one could possibly take you seriously. 

It is like you're trying to be a troll of a troll - that would sort of be clever.  But you are just you, and that is hilarious. 

If you say so.  Just do yourself a favor and try to see people as people and not walking reproductive organs.  Conservatives are just waaaayyyy to focused on underage genitals.  Chris Hansen oughta bust your ass.

My actual point of telling you about that stuff is to show that male vs female competition has happened in the past and it's happening now and it's completely ignored or normalized and flies under the radar.  When I said I played sports with and against girls your response was "Did you suck bad enough to lose to a girl?" you didn't say "I can't believe Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge allowed Nately120 and other biological males to play sports against biological girls in 1999!  What a travesty!"

No, you treated it like a joke or a sitcom plot, because that's how we think of boys vs girls in stuff.  It's either normalized, or a bit silly, or a bit "OOOoh sucks to be that dude who lost to a girl! HAHA!" or maybe "She's so good at that sport, I bet she's a total lezbo who pees standing up!"  I'll admit I had a gf who was a rather aggressive defender on the soccer field and it was a little kinky.

But when you bring up the concept of trans males to females competing against biological females suddenly it's a bunch of devious, sneaky, amoral and unfair stuff that needs to be addressed in the highest branches of government.  It just seems like the trans part is what sends people clutching their pearls where normal male vs female stuff has been going on for decades without issue.

It's that stereotypical fear of being duped by a sneaky trans person.  Quick, get the governor on the phone.  I suspect covert penises.


Oh, and in your scenario where your daughter gets 2nd place to a trans dude and loses the race and a scholarship I'd suggest you tell prospective colleges what her time in the race was.  Either they'll say "Great!  We'll offer her a scholarship for that time!" or they'll say "Who got 1st place?  Some trans guy?  We want him, not your daughter." then you know you just dodged a bullet and won't be sending your daughter to a woke liberal brainwashing college that gives girl's sports scholarships to trans dudes.

Everyone wins.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-07-2022, 06:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If you say so.  Just do yourself a favor and try to see people as people and not walking reproductive organs.  Conservatives are just waaaayyyy to focused on underage genitals.  Chris Hansen oughta bust your ass.

My actual point of telling you about that stuff is to show that male vs female competition has happened in the past and it's happening now and it's completely ignored or normalized and flies under the radar.  When I said I played sports with and against girls your response was "Did you suck bad enough to lose to a girl?" you didn't say "I can't believe Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge allowed Nately120 and other biological males to play sports against biological girls in 1999!  What a travesty!"

No, you treated it like a joke or a sitcom plot, because that's how we think of boys vs girls in stuff.  It's either normalized, or a bit silly, or a bit "OOOoh sucks to be that dude who lost to a girl! HAHA!" or maybe "She's so good at that sport, I bet she's a total lezbo who pees standing up!"  I'll admit I had a gf who was a rather aggressive defender on the soccer field and it was a little kinky.

But when you bring up the concept of trans males to females competing against biological females suddenly it's a bunch of devious, sneaky, amoral and unfair stuff that needs to be addressed in the highest branches of government.  It just seems like the trans part is what sends people clutching their pearls where normal male vs female stuff has been going on for decades without issue.

It's that stereotypical fear of being duped by a sneaky trans person.  Quick, get the governor on the phone.  I suspect covert penises.


Oh, and in your scenario where your daughter gets 2nd place to a trans dude and loses the race and a scholarship I'd suggest you tell prospective colleges what her time in the race was.  Either they'll say "Great!  We'll offer her a scholarship for that time!" or they'll say "Who got 1st place?  Some trans guy?  We want him, not your daughter." then you know you just dodged a bullet and won't be sending your daughter to a woke liberal brainwashing college that gives girl's sports scholarships to trans dudes.

Everyone wins.  

you really shouldn't act like something you are not. You aren't doing a very good job of it. Alot of the arguments you are trying to interject were only brought up by you. Color, mixed sports, popularity of WNBA, Soccer etc. This is about Trans males trying to compete in HS Girls only sports. The rest is just 2 pages of you yapping about nothing.

[*Nately120*]

(09-07-2022, 11:46 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: you really shouldn't act like something you are not. You aren't doing a very good job of it. Alot of the arguments you are trying to interject were only brought up by you. Color, mixed sports, popularity of WNBA, Soccer etc. This is about Trans males trying to compete in HS Girls only sports. The rest is just 2 pages of you yapping about nothing.

Right it's all about trans males to females.  That's the one thing that is the issue with people.  I agree with that. 

And fair point to calling out my rambling stream of consciousness trip down memory lane or my long-winded devil's advocating, but if I may try to give this all a sincere and terse coda I did point out that the situation seems strange to me.  With that being said, it also smacks of the same old cynical "protecting the women and children" aspect of a lot of political rhetoric that has been aimed at people outside of the conservative base.

We've seen the "I'm just looking out for women and children" argument be used against teachers, and gays, and trans people, and segregation and immigration and even allowing women to vote way back when.  So yeah, I academically "get the argument" here, but at the same time it's hard to ignore how disingenuous a lot of those arguments have been over the generations.

Now I'll legimately try to focus my powers of obsession on something else, I promise.