(05-23-2017, 06:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ok, if you want to go total Marv history (I can't believe I am the one defending him), I think it is only fair to compare him to the 14 years prior to his arrival.
Bengals record from 1989-2002: 72-150
Playoff appearances in that time frame: 2 games
Playoff wins in that time frame: 1. in 1990, the infamous "Jerry" Bowl
Bengals record from 2002-2016: 93-80-2
Playoff appearances in that time frame: 7
Playoff wins in that time frame: 0
There is your history. You can be a cynic and say that Marv has had zero improvement because they haven't won a single playoff game, but I am much happier with a team that has been in the hunt 50% of the time, and been close many more times. From 1990 to Marv's beginning in 2002, this team had no hope. They do now. I am not going to dissect playoff game by playoff game and make excuses why they lost. Only one team wins the Super Bowl and it hasn't been them.
My post that brought you to your "fourteen" response dealt with LAST year, and tried to provide evidence as to why they will be right back in the thick of things THIS year. If you would rather live in the past and be upset about Marv's previous failures in the post season, have at it.
I choose to look forward and be excited about where this team is headed.
By the way, do you feel the same about the Reds? Have they won a playoff series since 1990? Do you not enjoy the team any longer because of all their post season failures? Just curious.
I wouldn't even try to say there's been no improvement. There's been plenty to enjoy during the season in the last 6 years and in a few other seasons since 2003.
The difference between us is just this; you're happy putting the past in the past and looking to better things in the new year. After 14 tries, i'm done with the annual build up only to be disappointed and i'm choosing to remain lukewarm on the team this year--while watching games, and yes, enjoying when they play well--and if they happen to get further this year than they have in the past, i'll enjoy it just as much as you will. It's just too much in my blood to completely walk away from it, though i've learned to be less emotionally involved.
I just can't do the 'refueling' thing any more. Personal choice. As far as the Reds, i've always been a casual+ fan of baseball. I'll watch and enjoy it when they do well, but i don't stress nearly as much (at all) as i do with football.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(05-23-2017, 08:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't mean to be a wet blanket for your hatred, but there have been many years recently when the doom and gloom sayers were more wrong than right. Lots of predictions of losing seasons that have been wrong.
And of course some people just chose to have a positive attitude instead of dreaming of failure.
As usual, your post is off the mark and extremely exaggerated.
What i have isn't hatred.
Doom and gloom sayers being wrong is on an individual perspective.
I don't care about, nor do i predict/join in on predictions of losing seasons.
Nothing wrong with people having a positive attitude.
I don't dream of failure.
For a grown man of your age, with the type of job you have and your education, it's baffling how you can jump to such far out conclusions without taking the time to know who you're posting to.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(05-23-2017, 11:41 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: TY for your concern. Since we are handing out advice, I will give some to you.
Negativity is a curse and living in a world of it creates more negativity and is counter productive to success. Focusing on optimism brightens may day so when some barriers (negatives) arise it is easy to get through it due to all of the optimism in other area of my life I remain focused on daily. In short, I am Loving it (LUVNIT2) and have no issues if my team does not succeed after a brief mourning period.
If you can continue to get up for each new season and get over it each time with the same renewed vigor, i say great and more power to you. I'm not unable to do the same, i just choose not to right now.
Nothing in my view on the Bengals has any effect whatsoever in any part of my daily life. I can remain skeptical of their ability for success and still enjoy my work, family and friends to the utmost; and i do.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(05-23-2017, 10:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I wouldn't even try to say there's been no improvement. There's been plenty to enjoy during the season in the last 6 years and in a few other seasons since 2003.
The difference between us is just this; you're happy putting the past in the past and looking to better things in the new year. After 14 tries, i'm done with the annual build up only to be disappointed and i'm choosing to remain lukewarm on the team this year--while watching games, and yes, enjoying when they play well--and if they happen to get further this year than they have in the past, i'll enjoy it just as much as you will. It's just too much in my blood to completely walk away from it, though i've learned to be less emotionally involved.
I just can't do the 'refueling' thing any more. Personal choice. As far as the Reds, i've always been a casual+ fan of baseball. I'll watch and enjoy it when they do well, but i don't stress nearly as much (at all) as i do with football.
I completely get it. You don't have to explain it to me. This discussion started because you threw out Marv's playoff record as a reason to not have optimism about the upcoming season. It is a valid argument. I countered with his overall record compared to what he inherited.
I just don't think getting rid of Marv at this point would make sense. Now, if he fails with THIS roster, then I think it is time to go younger. That being said, I think everything will come together and once the proverbial playoff monkey is exercised, they run all the way to the Super Bowl and win....over the Saints. Don't ask me why I think the Saints...i have no idea why.
(05-24-2017, 08:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I completely get it. You don't have to explain it to me. This discussion started because you threw out Marv's playoff record as a reason to not have optimism about the upcoming season. It is a valid argument. I countered with his overall record compared to what he inherited.
I just don't think getting rid of Marv at this point would make sense. Now, if he fails with THIS roster, then I think it is time to go younger. That being said, I think everything will come together and once the proverbial playoff monkey is exercised, they run all the way to the Super Bowl and win....over the Saints. Don't ask me why I think the Saints...i have no idea why.
But here's the caveat, for those that choose to be optimistic at the beginning of each year. What if there's a, or a few, 'significant injuries' ala Dalton two years ago or other guys in the past?
I ask because you said you don't think getting rid of Marv at this point would make sense. As i pointed out before, there have been 14 seasons without a playoff win. A lot of those explained away for one reason or another.
This question isn't to antagonize or prolong a negative narrative, just to try and find out when enough is enough; where the line is drawn. And i ask because a few times in the recent past, people have said "if he can't get it done with this roster...".
My personal opinion is, people just don't generally like change and there's the worry that if a change is made, it's automatically going to revert to the lost decade times.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(05-24-2017, 08:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I completely get it. You don't have to explain it to me. This discussion started because you threw out Marv's playoff record as a reason to not have optimism about the upcoming season. It is a valid argument. I countered with his overall record compared to what he inherited.
I just don't think getting rid of Marv at this point would make sense. Now, if he fails with THIS roster, then I think it is time to go younger. That being said, I think everything will come together and once the proverbial playoff monkey is exercised, they run all the way to the Super Bowl and win....over the Saints. Don't ask me why I think the Saints...i have no idea why.
(05-24-2017, 12:32 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: But here's the caveat, for those that choose to be optimistic at the beginning of each year. What if there's a, or a few, 'significant injuries' ala Dalton two years ago or other guys in the past?
I ask because you said you don't think getting rid of Marv at this point would make sense. As i pointed out before, there have been 14 seasons without a playoff win. A lot of those explained away for one reason or another.
This question isn't to antagonize or prolong a negative narrative, just to try and find out when enough is enough; where the line is drawn. And i ask because a few times in the recent past, people have said "if he can't get it done with this roster...".
My personal opinion is, people just don't generally like change and there's the worry that if a change is made, it's automatically going to revert to the lost decade times.
You have the big guns in any argument against ML or MB as they have never won anything in the playoffs. You may be right their past failure will never results in future success as long as they are leading this team. My only counter is many experts believe we do have a top 10 roster right now. I am a gambler and believe in odds. Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while so maybe the odds are the blind Bengals will find a nut in 2017 keeps us optimistic prior to the season.
It is cool, you have posted over again you have no hope and you have great reasons (big loaded guns) to back it up.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(05-24-2017, 12:32 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: But here's the caveat, for those that choose to be optimistic at the beginning of each year. What if there's a, or a few, 'significant injuries' ala Dalton two years ago or other guys in the past?
I ask because you said you don't think getting rid of Marv at this point would make sense. As i pointed out before, there have been 14 seasons without a playoff win. A lot of those explained away for one reason or another.
This question isn't to antagonize or prolong a negative narrative, just to try and find out when enough is enough; where the line is drawn. And i ask because a few times in the recent past, people have said "if he can't get it done with this roster...".
My personal opinion is, people just don't generally like change and there's the worry that if a change is made, it's automatically going to revert to the lost decade times.
I get what your saying, I used to be so wrapped up with this team losing. Back in the 90's I was living in San Diego and would watch the 1st quarter of our games and would be completely baffled by the baffoonery, I'd shut the TV off and go golfing.
Like you, I agreed with myself to let, what I can't control, not dictate my life. We are not going to change the front office. Lost my thought now, so yeah I do get optimistic at the beginning of each new season, but it is tempered.
(05-24-2017, 12:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You have the big guns in any argument against ML or MB as they have never won anything in the playoffs. You may be right their past failure will never results in future success as long as they are leading this team. My only counter is many experts believe we do have a top 10 roster right now. I am a gambler and believe in odds. Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while so maybe the odds are the blind Bengals will find a nut in 2017 keeps us optimistic prior to the season.
It is cool, you have posted over again you have no hope and you have great reasons (big loaded guns) to back it up.
But to my question, when is enough enough? How many tries does a guy get?
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(05-24-2017, 08:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I completely get it. You don't have to explain it to me. This discussion started because you threw out Marv's playoff record as a reason to not have optimism about the upcoming season. It is a valid argument. I countered with his overall record compared to what he inherited.
I just don't think getting rid of Marv at this point would make sense. Now, if he fails with THIS roster, then I think it is time to go younger. That being said, I think everything will come together and once the proverbial playoff monkey is exercised, they run all the way to the Super Bowl and win....over the Saints. Don't ask me why I think the Saints...i have no idea why.
Even if we win the SB this year i think it is time to move on from Marv myself.
I think if we do win it this roster carried his lame ass. He is great at putting a great team together but he will never outcoach a great coach like Belichick cause he doesn't believe in adjusting in the game like these great coaches do.
Guenther actually does and i find it likely he is the next HC next year regardless of this season hopefully.
Hopefully we do what you say here SHRacer and other people don't know what we know about Marv and he rides off into the sunset a SB Champion.
(05-23-2017, 06:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ok, if you want to go total Marv history (I can't believe I am the one defending him), I think it is only fair to compare him to the 14 years prior to his arrival.
Bengals record from 1989-2002: 72-150
Playoff appearances in that time frame: 2 games
Playoff wins in that time frame: 1. in 1990, the infamous "Jerry" Bowl
Bengals record from 2002-2016: 93-80-2
Playoff appearances in that time frame: 7
Playoff wins in that time frame: 0
There is your history. You can be a cynic and say that Marv has had zero improvement because they haven't won a single playoff game, but I am much happier with a team that has been in the hunt 50% of the time, and been close many more times. From 1990 to Marv's beginning in 2002, this team had no hope. They do now. I am not going to dissect playoff game by playoff game and make excuses why they lost. Only one team wins the Super Bowl and it hasn't been them.
My post that brought you to your "fourteen" response dealt with LAST year, and tried to provide evidence as to why they will be right back in the thick of things THIS year. If you would rather live in the past and be upset about Marv's previous failures in the post season, have at it.
I choose to look forward and be excited about where this team is headed.
By the way, do you feel the same about the Reds? Have they won a playoff series since 1990? Do you not enjoy the team any longer because of all their post season failures? Just curious.
Your numbers are a little off.
From 1989-2002 we were 72-152 (.321) in regular season and 1-1 in the playoffs.
Marvin is 118-103-3 (.533) in regular season and 0-7 in the playoffs.
To your overall point though, I just have to wonder when people will stop pointing to the 90's in order to justify Marv's mediocre-at-best results. In 2022 will we still be looking back 30 years in terror? Maybe we should forget about what happened back when there was AOL dial up and pagers and start judging Marv by his own merits. Marv's win % is barely enough to justify his continued employment, and no team not headed by Mike Brown would keep Marvin after all the playoff/prime-time failure. The regular season success hasn't been frequent or strong enough to offset the record-setting failures on the big stage.
I look at Marv's past and I'm just not as hopeful as you. Maybe for the regular season, but I'd almost bet my house that he won't win the playoff game if they get there.
Fwiw, the Reds last won a playoff series in 1995, not 1990. That said, I'm just as frustrated by their failures, even though I realize that baseball has no salary cap and less parity.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(05-24-2017, 03:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Your numbers are a little off.
From 1989-2002 we were 72-152 (.321) in regular season and 1-1 in the playoffs.
Marvin is 118-103-3 (.533) in regular season and 0-7 in the playoffs.
To your overall point though, I just have to wonder when people will stop pointing to the 90's in order to justify Marv's mediocre-at-best results. In 2022 will we still be looking back 30 years in terror? Maybe we should forget about what happened back when there was AOL dial up and pagers and start judging Marv by his own merits. Marv's win % is barely enough to justify his continued employment, and no team not headed by Mike Brown would keep Marvin after all the playoff/prime-time failure. The regular season success hasn't been frequent or strong enough to offset the record-setting failures on the big stage.
I look at Marv's past and I'm just not as hopeful as you. Maybe for the regular season, but I'd almost bet my house that he won't win the playoff game if they get there.
Fwiw, the Reds last won a playoff series in 1995, not 1990. That said, I'm just as frustrated by their failures, even though I realize that baseball has no salary cap and less parity.
How could I forget the Ron Gant-led 1995 Reds? I was even at the Nomo playoff game!!!
As far as looking back at the past as a measuring stick, that isn't really what I was trying to accomplish. I was pointing out that Marv took over a steaming turd and made something viable out of it.
The past few seasons I had significant reservations because of a variety of things: Hadn't addressed the pass rush, no vertical threat, didn't think much of our running game, etc. I just see so many positives, and I like that no one is expecting anything out of this team (media wise).
As far as Marv goes, I see his biggest weaknesses as a coach as time management and an unwillingness to keep the throttle down with even a slight lead early in a game. Too conservative. With no new deal for him as of right now, I think this is Marv's last shot and I just really want to see him finish the job rather than his legacy be 0-8 in the playoffs.
(05-24-2017, 02:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Even if we win the SB this year i think it is time to move on from Marv myself.
I think if we do win it this roster carried his lame ass. He is great at putting a great team together but he will never outcoach a great coach like Belichick cause he doesn't believe in adjusting in the game like these great coaches do.
Guenther actually does and i find it likely he is the next HC next year regardless of this season hopefully.
Hopefully we do what you say here SHRacer and other people don't know what we know about Marv and he rides off into the sunset a SB Champion.
I think he even said as much....it would sure be a perfect ending.
(05-24-2017, 12:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: But to my question, when is enough enough? How many tries does a guy get?
Why answer a question that I can't control and has zero impact now as the decision is final and ML is still here? Your frustration that ML and MB are here is noted. But, they are here in 2017 so a hypothetical of what ifs of them being gone is irrelevant as of 2017 IMHO. After the 2017 season, it is a great conversation before MB hires his 2018 and beyond coach.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
You are never guaranteed next year in life, Dalton/Green/Burfict/Atkins can take that mentality and win a damn playoff game using it. Can't live life like there's a tomorrow. We want Burfict enacting quotes of fear from opponents, on the line of being fined vs. terrified if he plays. When he is healthy he is a disrupter.
(05-25-2017, 10:31 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: You are never guaranteed next year in life, Dalton/Green/Burfict/Atkins can take that mentality and win a damn playoff game using it. Can't live life like there's a tomorrow. We want Burfict enacting quotes of fear from opponents, on the line of being fined vs. terrified if he plays. When he is healthy he is a disrupter.
He got that penalty thing under control last year. Maybe this year, officials start treating him like everyone else again.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
(05-25-2017, 05:48 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think he even said as much....it would sure be a perfect ending.
My dream.
(05-25-2017, 07:48 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Perfect for everyone!
Yeah Harley.
(05-25-2017, 11:29 AM)McC Wrote: He got that penalty thing under control last year. Maybe this year, officials start treating him like everyone else again.
That sure would be nice but i am sure when we are playing the Steelers there will be much bias against him no matter how clean he plays.
Those refs wear black and yellow and are scared of him just like the rest of them.
Sorry, it may cost us yards sometimes, but I Love It! We have a silent "Goodfella" on our team. He's all business until you play on his yard. He has 32 yards. It's lights out baby, every Friggin Sunday! (Key in Mannish Boy). BAMF!
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