#WalkAway

[Belsnickel]

(08-14-2018, 06:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah I remember how Bush was flamed in a similar manner by Hollywood, musicians and the media, so...

And tbh, Trump wasn't exactly compared to Hitler prior to running, either. I don't recall anyone dropping the racist bomb on him prior to 2016, and he's always been a very public figure.

It happened a lot, actually. In fact, the Nixon administration sued Trump for racial discrimination. That's just one two (he got sued twice for this in his rental properties by the DoJ) examples of it that are very public.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-14-2018, 04:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is no #walkaway "movement".  It is a scam that is being spread by Pro-Trump and Russian accounts to make it look like a "movement".

Oh, so it's the Russians that are making all those #walkaway videos?  Wow, we should actually fear them, I can't even tell the Russian accent in their voices.  

[BmorePat87]

(08-14-2018, 07:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Oh, so it's the Russians that are making all those #walkaway videos?  Wow, we should actually fear them, I can't even tell the Russian accent in their voices.  

No, it's Russians retweeting it. There's a whole link where accounts retweeting the hashtag are crossmatched with known Russian twitter bots.

[BmorePat87]

(08-14-2018, 06:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah I remember how Bush was flamed in a similar manner by Hollywood, musicians and the media, so...

And tbh, Trump wasn't exactly compared to Hitler prior to running, either. I don't recall anyone dropping the racist bomb on him prior to 2016, and he's always been a very public figure.

He was literally sued by the government for refusing to rent to black people and then there's the well known beef he has with the innocent black men known as the Central Park 5, where he called for them to be executed and then refused to acknowledge their innocence decades later.

Quote:https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/walkaway-campaign-stock-photos/

Well there is the problem that the people heading #WalkAway didn't make those memes using stock photos.

No, they popped up on a conservative facebook group and were shared by Clarence Thomas's wife. Further proof on top of the twitter statistics that this is not an organic movement.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-14-2018, 08:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No, it's Russians retweeting it. There's a whole link where accounts retweeting the hashtag are crossmatched with known Russian twitter bots.

Who cares about who's "retweeting" it.  The youtube videos seem pretty damn homogenous to me.  

Just because outside actors took notice, and decided to promote, does not make them responsible for the entire thing.

Further to the point, I listen to a fair amount of talk radio.  In the past 5-8 years, I've heard more than my share of callers talking about how they used to be die-hard liberals, and how they've come to see the light, and made the decision to switch sides.  I'm saying that it's nothing new for people to switch political parties, just someone decided to get cute with it, and call it a "movement".

[*bfine32*]

So this is "because Russia" too?

Where's Joseph McCarthy when you need him?

[BmorePat87]

(08-14-2018, 09:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Who cares about who's "retweeting" it.  The youtube videos seem pretty damn homogenous to me.  

Just because outside actors took notice, and decided to promote, does not make them responsible for the entire thing.

Further to the point, I listen to a fair amount of talk radio.  In the past 5-8 years, I've heard more than my share of callers talking about how they used to be die-hard liberals, and how they've come to see the light, and made the decision to switch sides.  I'm saying that it's nothing new for people to switch political parties, just someone decided to get cute with it, and call it a "movement".

Like I said, people switch ideologies all of the time, but this particular movement is occurring entirely on conservative facebook groups and on conservative and known troll twitter accounts. 

There's been plenty of links posted in this thread. 

Edit: never mind, I see this was already explained in full detail by Fred and then you just called him names after he completely discredited some video you posted.

[*bfine32*]

McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence. The term refers to U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy and has its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting from the late 1940s through the 1950s and characterized by heightened political repression as well as an alleged campaign spreading fear of Communist influence on American institutions and of espionage by Soviet agents.


Old Joe would be proud of many of you. 

[BmorePat87]

(08-14-2018, 11:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence. The term refers to U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy and has its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting from the late 1940s through the 1950s and characterized by heightened political repression as well as an alleged campaign spreading fear of Communist influence on American institutions and of espionage by Soviet agents.


Old Joe would be proud of many of you. 

I get that all you do these days is make up stuff and try to derail threads, but this was covered a few pages back, boss. 

[Shake n Blake]

(08-14-2018, 08:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No, it's Russians retweeting it. There's a whole link where accounts retweeting the hashtag are crossmatched with known Russian twitter bots.

This does not = Russians are responsible for the entire movement.

(08-14-2018, 08:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He was literally sued by the government for refusing to rent to black people and then there's the well known beef he has with the innocent black men known as the Central Park 5, where he called for them to be executed and then refused to acknowledge their innocence decades later.


No, they popped up on a conservative facebook group and were shared by Clarence Thomas's wife. Further proof on top of the twitter statistics that this is not an organic movement.

Oops. I forgot about that thing that happened 45 years ago, when Donald was still working under his father. Was guilt ever admitted in that case?

And I wasn't aware that having an opinion on a criminal case automatically makes you a racist. I won't pretend to know what happened that night, but the fact that they confessed to holding the woman down and/or "feeling her ****" (awfully specific) at least makes me wonder. I also wonder why the city refused to settle for 10 years (as their lawyers felt they would win), then suddenly new mayor Bill de Blasio pushes the settlement through.

[Belsnickel]

(08-15-2018, 12:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Oops. I forgot about that thing that happened 45 years ago, when Donald was still working under his father. Was guilt ever admitted in that case?

And I wasn't aware that having an opinion on a criminal case automatically makes you a racist. I won't pretend to know what happened that night, but the fact that they confessed to holding the woman down and/or "feeling her ****" (awfully specific) at least makes me wonder. I also wonder why the city refused to settle for 10 years (as their lawyers felt they would win), then suddenly new mayor Bill de Blasio pushes the settlement through.

Your comment was that you didn't recall anyone "dropping the racist bomb on him prior to 2016." Whether you agree that his actions were racist or not, there are quite a few instances of him being accused of racism prior to 2016. Pat and I mentioned a couple of examples, and there are more out there. It simply shows that the accusations of racism against Trump are not new and have been going on for decades.

[BmorePat87]

(08-15-2018, 12:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This does not = Russians are responsible for the entire movement.

I never said that. I said "most of the twitter accounts retweeting the hashtag are linked to Pro-Trump accounts or Russian accounts" and "it's Russians retweeting it". Fred said it's "being spread by Pro-Trump and Russian accounts"

Quote:Oops. I forgot about that thing that happened 45 years ago, when Donald was still working under his father. Was guilt ever admitted in that case?


And I wasn't aware that having an opinion on a criminal case automatically makes you a racist. I won't pretend to know what happened that night, but the fact that they confessed to holding the woman down and/or "feeling her ****" (awfully specific) at least makes me wonder. I also wonder why the city refused to settle for 10 years (as their lawyers felt they would win), then suddenly new mayor Bill de Blasio pushes the settlement through.

You said that no one suggested he was racist until 2016. I gave you examples spanning decades where he has been accused of racism. 

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2018, 09:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So this is "because Russia" too?

Where's Joseph McCarthy when you need him?

(08-14-2018, 11:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence. The term refers to U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy and has its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting from the late 1940s through the 1950s and characterized by heightened political repression as well as an alleged campaign spreading fear of Communist influence on American institutions and of espionage by Soviet agents.


Old Joe would be proud of many of you. 

Not sure I understand your point here.

Are you saying that this "movement" was not spread by Russian bots?  Are you saying there is no proof of that?

[Millhouse]

(08-15-2018, 01:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Your comment was that you didn't recall anyone "dropping the racist bomb on him prior to 2016." Whether you agree that his actions were racist or not, there are quite a few instances of him being accused of racism prior to 2016. Pat and I mentioned a couple of examples, and there are more out there. It simply shows that the accusations of racism against Trump are not new and have been going on for decades.

I think its pretty clear that Trump is either racist or at least racially biased. Of the 48 senior White House officials from Chief of Staff on down, none are black and a 'handful' are asian, latino or arab descent. https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/politics/omarosa-white-house-diversity/index.html

This is a stark contrast to the last two administrations of Obama and Bush over 16 years.

[SunsetBengal]

Who in the world would ever want to #walkaway from a political ideology that behaves like a school of piranhas? I can't imagine why anyone would want to distance themselves from that..

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2018, 09:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So this is "because Russia" too?

Where's Joseph McCarthy when you need him?

(08-14-2018, 11:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence. The term refers to U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy and has its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting from the late 1940s through the 1950s and characterized by heightened political repression as well as an alleged campaign spreading fear of Communist influence on American institutions and of espionage by Soviet agents.


Old Joe would be proud of many of you. 

Not sure I understand your point here.

Are you saying that this "movement" was not spread by Russian bots?  Are you saying there is no proof of that?

[Shake n Blake]

(08-15-2018, 01:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Your comment was that you didn't recall anyone "dropping the racist bomb on him prior to 2016." Whether you agree that his actions were racist or not, there are quite a few instances of him being accused of racism prior to 2016. Pat and I mentioned a couple of examples, and there are more out there. It simply shows that the accusations of racism against Trump are not new and have been going on for decades.

The fact that people have to go back 30 to 45 years to find 2 pretty weak examples speaks volumes to me. When someone is in the public eye for that long, you can pretty much craft any narrative you want and find some weak evidence to support it...but if Trump were the flaming nazi racist the left makes him out to be, the examples should be clearer, stronger and more numerous. 

I never saw anyone accuse Trump of racism for his opinion on the jogger case until 2016, when CNN grilled him over it. I also doubt the headlines were "Donald Trump is a Racist" back in 1973. His father was still running the show back then, and no admission of guilt was made. Saying that these were clear accusations of racism (at the time) is a stretch. Sure, they're used NOW as evidence.

[GMDino]

(08-15-2018, 01:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The fact that people have to go back 30 to 45 years to find 2 pretty weak examples speaks volumes to me. When someone is in the public eye for that long, you can pretty much craft any narrative you want and find some weak evidence to support it...but if Trump were the flaming nazi racist the left makes him out to be, the examples should be clearer, stronger and more numerous. 

I never saw anyone accuse Trump of racism for his opinion on the jogger case until 2016, when CNN grilled him over it. I also doubt the headlines were "Donald Trump is a Racist" back in 1973. His father was still running the show back then, and no admission of guilt was made. Saying that these were clear accusations of racism (at the time) is a stretch. Sure, they're used NOW as evidence.

The bold are personal opinions with no basis in facts.


From 2002
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/23/nyregion/trump-draws-criticism-for-ad-he-ran-after-jogger-attack.html

Quote:In 1989, Mr. Trump paused in building his real estate empire to run the 600-word ad in The New York Times, The Daily News, The New York Post and New York Newsday, at a total cost of $85,000, under the boldfaced heading, ''Bring Back the Death Penalty. Bring Back Our Police!''


In the ad, Mr. Trump said Mayor Edward I. Koch had stated ''that hate and rancor should be removed from our hearts,'' to which Mr. Trump replied: ''I do not think so. I want to hate these muggers and murderers. They should be forced to suffer and, when they kill, they should be executed for their crimes.'' At the time, the attack victim was still in a coma.

The ad does not name any defendant, instead referring collectively to ''roving bands of wild criminals.''

The five young men confessed, four of them on videotape, and served prison sentences. But last January, a convicted murderer, Matias Reyes, announced that he alone had raped the jogger and that the teens who had confessed had not been present. DNA tests linked Mr. Reyes to semen on the jogger's sock. Lawyers for the original defendants have called for their exoneration, and a report from the Manhattan district attorney's office on the new evidence is due in court on Dec. 5.

''At the time there seemed to be very little question, but all of a sudden this seems to come up,'' Mr. Trump said. ''I do have tremendous respect for the district attorney, and I'm sure the right answer will come out.''

The confessions mystify him, he said. ''Why did they confess to the crime?''

Michael W. Warren, a lawyer for the men, said there was a growing resentment for Mr. Trump's advertisement.


''It was outrageous,'' Mr. Warren said, ''the manner that Mr. Trump used to engage in his own personal form of rhetoric. A lot of people felt it colored the eyes of prospective jurors who ultimately sat on the case. Now it's even more appalling, with new evidence that points exclusively to another person. I think Donald Trump at the very least owes a real apology to this community and to the young men and their families.''


Carol Taylor, a writer and demonstrator at the recent rallies, was not surprised at Mr. Trump's recent comments. ''Of course he won't apologize, because he's a rich white colorist male who is wallowing in the unearned privilege of his white skin color,'' she said. On Monday, she held a sign that said: ''Donald Trump, don't be a chump. For dissing black boys so bad, where's your full-page apology ad?''


A protest is planned near the Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue in Midtown on Sunday. ''I'll be there. I think I'll make my sign bigger,'' Ms. Taylor said.

Mr. Trump shrugged off the planned protest. ''I don't mind if they picket. I like pickets.''

While you don't want to go back "45 years" you say no one said he was racist then.  

A reprint from 1973:
https://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/07/30/1973-meet-donald-trump/

Quote:They first met him, on the front page no less, on Oct. 16, 1973. Then 27 years old, Mr. Trump was the president of the Trump Management Corporation, at 600 Avenue Z in Brooklyn, which owned more than 14,000 apartments in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island.


“Major Landlord Accused of Antiblack Bias in City,” the headline stated. The Department of Justice had brought suit in federal court in Brooklyn against Mr. Trump and his father, Fred C. Trump, charging them with violating the Fair Housing Act of 1968 in the operation of 39 buildings.

“The government contended that Trump Management had refused to rent or negotiate rentals ‘because of race and color,’ ” The Times reported. “It also charged that the company had required different rental terms and conditions because of race and that it had misrepresented to blacks that apartments were not available.”

Donald Trump’s first quoted words in The New York Times expressed his view of the charges:

“They are absolutely ridiculous.”

“We never have discriminated,” he added, “and we never would.”

Two months later, Trump Management, represented by Roy M. Cohn, turned around and sued the United States government for $100 million (roughly $500 million in today’s terms), asserting that the charges were “irresponsible and baseless.”

“Mr. Trump accused the Justice Department of singling out his corporation because it was a large one, and because the government was trying to force it to rent to welfare recipients,” The Times reported.
Under an agreement reached in June 1975, Trump Management was required to furnish the New York Urban League with a list of all apartment vacancies, every week, for two years. It was also to allow the league to present qualified applicants for every fifth vacancy in Trump buildings where fewer than 10 percent of the tenants were black.

Trump Management noted that the agreement did not constitute an admission of guilt.

Mr. Trump himself said he was satisfied that the agreement did not “compel the Trump organization to accept persons on welfare as tenants unless as qualified as any other tenant.”

He caved and did everything he was told to do that he wasn't doing....but he didn't have to "admit" guilt.  

Here's from from 1993:
https://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/07/30/1973-meet-donald-trump/

Quote:Trump Criticizes Pequots, Casino

Trump Says Indian Gaming Vulnerable To Mob
October 06, 1993|By DAVID LIGHTMAN; Washington Bureau Chief

WASHINGTON — "Go up to Connecticut," Donald Trump told a House subcommittee and its overflow audience Tuesday, "and you look" at the Mashantucket Pequots.

"They don't look like Indians to me."

The Pequots operate the Foxwoods Casino and High Stakes Bingo in Ledyard. Trump's assertion in the Halls of Congress Tuesday -- which he broadened to include all Indians who run casinos -- was just one more grenade in an hour long assault on Connecticut, Indians and their casinos that one committee chairman said was the most irresponsible testimony he had heard in nearly two decades in Congress.

By the time the casino magnate and New York real estate developer was done testifying before the House Native American Affairs Subcommittee, Trump had:

Called the state's experience with casinos "a disaster."

Charged that Gov. Lowell P. Weicker Jr. had been "bludgeoned" into accepting an agreement with the Pequots.

Claimed that the 300 Pequot tribe members carve up between $300 million and $500 million for themselves with all the glee of hungry children grabbing for pieces of a pizza.

Watch out, warned Trump. Organized crime figures are slithering into Indian casinos around the country.

"It will be the biggest scandal ever," Trump warned, "the biggest since Al Capone ... . An Indian chief is going to tell Joey Killer to please get off his reservation? It's unbelievable to me."

Much of Trump's testimony was unbelievable to the committee and other witnesses, including G. Michael Brown, president and chief executive officer of the Foxwoods casino, and Connecticut State Police Lt. Col. Robert Root.

Brown and Root vehemently denied there was a trace of organized crime at Foxwoods, and Brown called Trump's remarks "racist." And the idea that tribe members are pocketing such high profits, Brown said, is "totally false."

The subcommittee had originally called this hearing, which wound up lasting six hours, to learn more about how Indian casinos are policed and regulated.

The news seemed pretty good, as Laurence A. Urgenson, acting deputy assistant attorney general, said that allegations that mobsters are moving into the casinos "is not established by the data currently available." Asked if he saw potential for a major scandal, Root said no.

Still, Trump persisted.

The day seemed perfect for his anger. When he walked into the hearing room, he could not find a seat. For 2 1/2 hours, the lord of New York City's Trump Tower had to stand, his head usually cocked upward so his square jaw pointed sharply at the witness table.

When it was finally Trump's turn, he discarded the seven-page statement he was going to read.

"I had a long and boring speech," he told the panel, "It was politically correct and something that would have gotten me into no trouble whatsoever."

With that, he offered off-the-cuff remarks about some of the things bugging him lately, such as:
The mob. Forget the Justice Department's shrug. "Organized crime is rampant. People know it. People talk about it," Trump insisted. "I wonder what (former FBI director) J. Edgar Hoover would have said about this."

Look, he said, "nobody likes Indians as much as Donald Trump," but the Indians are being had by mobsters.

"There is no way Indians are going to protect themselves from the mob," he insisted. "This is gonna blow."

Profits. "You have a group of Indians in Connecticut," he said. "I've heard $300 [million] to $400 million [in profit]. They don't pay taxes. Why not distribute the money to other Indians?" he said.

Rep. Neil Abercrombie, D-Hawaii, challenged this, saying the profits often go to "expenditures on behalf of the Indians."

"I really don't believe you understand," Trump said. There's big money here, and organized crime wants it.

"I believe this tribe has 300, 400 members (It has 280). Do you think it's appropriate for 300 [members], who lucked out with a location between New York and Boston, shouldn't give some of the money out to others?"

Hey, said Abercrombie, at least they're not acting like financiers of the 1980s -- like Trump -- who profited with leveraged buyouts whose profits "were only given to 200 people in New York City."

Brown later explained that 75 percent to 80 percent of the Pequots' casino profits go for construction and development of other projects. He would not say how much profit the casino has earned since it opened in February 1992. The tribe plans to open a new hotel, two restaurants, a theater and other facilities in November.

The look. Trump, his thick blondish brown hair falling delicately over his ears and never drooping out of place, mused about what people who run Indian casinos look like.

"They don't look like Indians to me," he said. "They don't look like Indians to Indians."

House Natural Resources Committee Chairman George Miller, D-Calif., who has white hair, a mustache and glasses, seemed
incredulous.

He said he was reminded of people who comment that someone does not "look Jewish" or "look black."


"That was how people used to do business," he said mockingly, as people would be rejected for loans because they looked to be a certain race or ethnicity.

Well, said Trump, if looks do not matter, "why not approve everyone?"

After the hearing, he was asked to explain what an Indian looked like. "You know," he said. "You know."

Connecticut. Pity its poor governor. "Lowell Weicker, whom I have great respect for, fought and fought and fought and was bludgeoned into accepting this," he said of the pact that governs the state-Pequots relationship.

Not only is Weicker unhappy, Trump said, but "`Connecticut is a total disaster over Indian gaming."

The casino employs about 6,720 people, 80 percent of whom live in the state. The tribe agreed in January to pay Connecticut $100 million for the exclusive right to operate slot machines at Foxwoods, and then increased the amount to $113 million.

Trump got very little compassion from the hearing room crowd.

"In my 19 years here, I don't know that I've heard more irresponsible testimony," Miller said. Abercrombie criticized Trump's "patronizing attitude," and F. William Johnson, chief operating officer of the Mystic Lake Casino in Minnesota, said of Trump's assertion about crime, "It is wrong; it is ludicrous, and it is based on unjustified jealousy."

Trump would not give in. "People have paper bags over their faces and nobody's looking," he said. "Everybody knows what's going on."

Abercrombie sighed. "Free speech reigns," he said, "no matter how idiotic.

By the way: That last article is so full of the "best words" that Trump still uses.  Trying to talk off the cuff and throwing out a word-salad of thing he hopes to get something to stick.  "Believe me"

Anyway you can't have it both ways: You can't say "no one called Trump a racist until 2016" and also say "you have to go back 30-45 years to find times people called him racist".

[Belsnickel]

(08-15-2018, 01:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The fact that people have to go back 30 to 45 years to find 2 pretty weak examples speaks volumes to me. When someone is in the public eye for that long, you can pretty much craft any narrative you want and find some weak evidence to support it...but if Trump were the flaming nazi racist the left makes him out to be, the examples should be clearer, stronger and more numerous. 

I never saw anyone accuse Trump of racism for his opinion on the jogger case until 2016, when CNN grilled him over it. I also doubt the headlines were "Donald Trump is a Racist" back in 1973. His father was still running the show back then, and no admission of guilt was made. Saying that these were clear accusations of racism (at the time) is a stretch. Sure, they're used NOW as evidence.

Dino already responded to this pretty well, but I will just add that Trump's birtherism resulted in him being accused of racism quite a bit during the Obama years. We don't need to go far back at all, I just went to early examples to show just how long people have been calling him a racist.

Look, you want to believe he isn't racist, that's fine. There is a ton of evidence out there that point to it. Some has been brought up showing that you were incorrect to say it didn't happen prior to 2016. I'm moving on.

[fredtoast]

(08-15-2018, 02:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: Anyway you can't have it both ways:  You can't say "no one called Trump a racist until 2016" and also say "you have to go back 30-45 years to find times people called him racist".

You have not been paying attention to the way Trump supporters think, have you?

prove them wrong with MULTIPLE examples and they just ignore all facts.

Sued by the government for racial discrimination....doesn't count.

Autobiographer accuses him of racism and Trump admits what was written is "probably true".....doesn't count.

Called a racist for claiming innocent minorities are guilty even after being exonerated by the confession of the real rapists and DNA evidence.....doesn't count.

Accused of being racist for claiming Obama was born if Africa.....doesn't count.



Facts don't matter to them.