Was Ending The Shutdown Honorable?!

[BFritz21]

If you listen to the left-wing media, they'll claim that Trump ending the shutdown is him caving on his word and losing the battle, but they also acknowledge that he could shut it down again relatively soon.

The first thing I thought of when I heard that he's ending the shutdown is "he's just doing this so the government employees can get paid," which seems likely since he could resume the shutdown relatively soon.

Why isn't he being given credit for that? Am I wrong and it's not as obvious as it seems? Why else would he end the shutdown if he's just going to do it again soon?

[*Nately120*]

Isn't the right wing media coming down on Trump for this, too? Or did Ann Coulter go all lefty on us when I wasn't looking?

[fredtoast]

He ended the shut down because it was failing to accomplish what he wanted and the public was against it.

It was smart decision by him. He saw he was losing so he cut his losses instead of punishing innocent government workers and everyone else suffering due to the shutdown. Since Trump took responsibility for the shut down from the very first he could not try to turn the blame against the Democrats. He basically boxed himself in with no way out.

I think he is betting on using the State of the Union speech to rally support for his position.

[fredtoast]

(01-28-2019, 01:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Why isn't he being given credit for that?  Am I wrong and it's not as obvious as it seems?  Why else would he end the shutdown if he's just going to do it again soon?

You can't give him "credit" for correcting a bad decision if you think he is just going to do it again.

If he really cared about government workers missing pay then he would not be planning on doing it again soon.

[jj22]

He ended the shutdown because he fell for the fake news that's been pushed for ever that Dems have all the government jobs and he thought the shutdown only hurt dem voters (who Republicans have long lied to their constituents over who works for the government much like they lie to them over who uses the most government assistance).

Come to find out it was republican voters in republican states who were hit hardest. and Trump found that our the hard way.

That and the lack of security at our airports when people finally quit showing up for work last week.

The Shutdown was a failure for two reasons. Over 70% don't approve of the wall, and the promise was Mexico was going to pay for it, and while Trump denied he ever said Mexico was going to pay for it (It was the people in the audience!), American voters weren't buying it.

[*Nately120*]

(01-28-2019, 01:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: He ended the shutdown because he thought the shutdown only hurt dem voters (who Republicans have long lied to their constituents over who works for the government much like they lie to them over who uses the most government assistance).

Come to find out it was republican voters in republican states who were hit hardest. and Trump found that our the hard way.

That and the lack of security at our airports when people finally quit showing up for work last week.

The Shutdown was a failure for two reasons. Over 70% don't approve of the wall, and the promise was Mexico was going to pay for it.

Both sides are going after Trump for this, and that's the interesting part.  It'll be interesting to see the most ardent of Trump supporters convince themselves that Fox News and Ann Coulter are part of the left-wing spin machine, though. Lord knows only the most insane liberal could ever find fault with the latest "big deal" our celebrity president pulled out of his wig.

[BFritz21]

(01-28-2019, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't give him "credit" for correcting a bad decision if you think he is just going to do it again.

If he really cared about government workers missing pay then he would not be planning on doing it again soon.

Who said it was a bad decision?  And he's planning on doing it again to get done what needs to get done, which is get funding for the wall, which was a big campaign promise.

All of the employees get backpay, which means that it's not like they're just getting robbed.

Trump is doing what needs to be done to accomplish the goal, which is admirable when you consider that a big bash against most politicians is that they don't follow through on promises.

[*Nately120*]

(01-28-2019, 01:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Who said it was a bad decision?  And he's planning on doing it again to get done what needs to get done, which is get funding for the wall, which was a big campaign promise.

All of the employees get backpay, which means that it's not like they're just getting robbed.

Trump is doing what needs to be done to accomplish the goal, which is admirable when you consider that a big bash against most politicians is that they don't follow through on promises.

I don't get it...if the shutdown is so admirable and important why did he end it, even temporarily?

[*bfine32*]

Folks can debate all day was Trump "right" in standing his ground as long as he did, but nobody can deny the language being used such as "caved" is meant to be destructive rather than constructive. Furthermore, Schurmur's comments about hoping Trump "learned his lesson" will do absolutely nothing to work toward a bi-partisan deal

[GMDino]

(01-28-2019, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't give him "credit" for correcting a bad decision if you think he is just going to do it again.

If he really cared about government workers missing pay then he would not be planning on doing it again soon.

Yep.

Just like before when DJT finally did something he should have been doing anyway.  I won't lower the bar enough to give him credit for finally acting like a functioning adult instead of a narcissistic child.

[Au165]

(01-28-2019, 01:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks can debate all day was Trump "right" in standing his ground as long as he did, but nobody can deny the language being used such as "caved" is meant to be destructive rather than constructive. Furthermore, Schurmur's comments about hoping Trump "learned his lesson" will do absolutely nothing to work toward a bi-partisan deal

Hopefully he did learn his lesson about weaponizing innocent people’s liveliehoods. You can negotiate without catching hundreds of thousands of people in the cross fire.

[*Nately120*]

(01-28-2019, 01:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks can debate all day was Trump "right" in standing his ground as long as he did, but nobody can deny the language being used such as "caved" is meant to be destructive rather than constructive. Furthermore, Schurmur's comments about hoping Trump "learned his lesson" will do absolutely nothing to work toward a bi-partisan deal

I expect the language to be destructive, that's nothing new...but the people who are using such terms to criticize Trump is the interesting and fairly novel part, isn't it?  

[Belsnickel]

(01-28-2019, 01:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Who said it was a bad decision?  And he's planning on doing it again to get done what needs to get done, which is get funding for the wall, which was a big campaign promise.

Everyone who isn't a Trump sycophant.

(01-28-2019, 01:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: All of the employees get backpay, which means that it's not like they're just getting robbed.

Not all of the employees do. So, those that got furloughed get nothing. Granted, they weren't working, but how many of them would have preferred to have been working? All of them. Also, federal contractors will not get back pay. Many of them had to continue doing their jobs during the shutdown and they won't get paid anything for that because the backpay doesn't cover them. On top of that, the ripple effects economically can only partially be made up. You have tons of people that are indirectly impacted by the government shutdown because their businesses aren't being patronized by these workers. They don't get any compensation for that. States with high numbers of federal employees take a hit to their coffers as consumption based taxes are drastically reduced for the period.

Most people do not understand the way a government shutdown effects the economy. Everything is so interconnected that you can never fully grasp the full measure of it.

(01-28-2019, 01:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Trump is doing what needs to be done to accomplish the goal, which is admirable when you consider that a big bash against most politicians is that they don't follow through on promises.

Except it is an unnecessary goal that most of the country is against him on. Also, the CBA you could run on the shutdown for the wall would definitely skew towards more cost than benefit.

[*bfine32*]

(01-28-2019, 01:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: Hopefully he did learn his lesson about weaponizing innocent people’s liveliehoods. You can negotiate without catching hundreds of thousands of people in the cross fire.

I hope they all learned a lesson. The Left had 0 problem weaponizing people's livelihood when the sticking point was DACA.

None of that changes the fact that the language being used is of a mocking nature.

[BmorePat87]

Left wing media is saying he caved?

Good news for George Herbert Walker Bush: As of today, he is no longer the biggest wimp ever to serve as President of the United States.

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 25, 2019

Nancy Pelosi is alpha.

— Mike Cernovich ???? (@Cernovich) January 25, 2019

Apparently a wall isn't as good as a cave

— Michael Malice (@michaelmalice) January 25, 2019

[Au165]

(01-28-2019, 01:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hope they all learned a lesson. The Left had 0 problem weaponizing people's livelihood when the sticking point was DACA.

None of that changes the fact that the language being used is of a mocking nature.

...wait we are worried about the mocking nature of rhetoric towards a guy who mocks people every day? Literally every day! When we hold him accountable for the terrible stuff he tweets out on a daily basis ( mocking, name calling,etc) we can feign shock.

He doesn’t get to play bully and victim.

[*Nately120*]

(01-28-2019, 01:44 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Left wing media is saying he caved?

Good news for George Herbert Walker Bush: As of today, he is no longer the biggest wimp ever to serve as President of the United States.

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 25, 2019

Ann Coulter is an unmarried, childless lawyer from NYC.  She's clearly as liberal as it gets!

[GMDino]

(01-28-2019, 01:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hope they all learned a lesson. The Left had 0 problem weaponizing people's livelihood when the sticking point was DACA.

None of that changes the fact that the language being used is of a mocking nature.

You mean saying that DJT "caved"?

He brings that on himself.  But you can also pick and choose which "language" you want to show Trump being "mocked" and which were more political in their responses.

Trump got played at his own game and I know it hurts his supporters to see so they turn it around that OTHERS should not act/talk that way.

But hey..."the left".

[jj22]

#TRUMPCAVED was the hashtag started by the right.

"Caved" was based off of his words earlier in a tweet saying he wasn't going to cave. That's why that word came back to bite him.

It's only natural for people to throw a word back in your face when you've spent the last 30 days using it to claim you wasn't going to "cave". So that's pretty natural Bfine.

But the hashtag that got trending on Twitter for 3 days with the word was from the right as well as the left. But surprisingly mostly from the right.

[BFritz21]

(01-28-2019, 01:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't get it...if the shutdown is so admirable and important why did he end it, even temporarily?

So that government employees could get paid so that families aren't suffering.  I kind of thought that that was obviously my point.

(01-28-2019, 01:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Everyone who isn't a Trump sycophant.


Not all of the employees do. So, those that got furloughed get nothing. Granted, they weren't working, but how many of them would have preferred to have been working? All of them. Also, federal contractors will not get back pay. Many of them had to continue doing their jobs during the shutdown and they won't get paid anything for that because the backpay doesn't cover them. On top of that, the ripple effects economically can only partially be made up. You have tons of people that are indirectly impacted by the government shutdown because their businesses aren't being patronized by these workers. They don't get any compensation for that. States with high numbers of federal employees take a hit to their coffers as consumption based taxes are drastically reduced for the period.

Most people do not understand the way a government shutdown effects the economy. Everything is so interconnected that you can never fully grasp the full measure of it.


Except it is an unnecessary goal that most of the country is against him on. Also, the CBA you could run on the shutdown for the wall would definitely skew towards more cost than benefit.

What percentage of employees don't get backpay?  

People may not understand the government shutdown and how it effects the economy, but people also don't see how the wall will help the economy in the long run and how it will improve our country.

It's not overwhelming that people are against him on the wall (something like 45% for an 55% opposed the last I saw), and how many people opposed are Democrats who oppose it just because he's Republican or minorities who see it as oppression? I don't know anyone that has been polled.