Well.....Well....Well...

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2018, 10:12 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: so every press secretary ever?

No. Press Secretaries notoriously have an adversarial role with the press, but the relationship relies on a degree of trust. This administration lacks that. Past administrations have not been completely open or have intentionally hidden things, but they haven't provided provably false information to such a degree as this administration has.

[GMDino]

I don't know the legality of it (political party is not a protected class)...nor do I think she should have used her government position to blast the place (unless she wanted Trump's followers to bombard the place)...but this is funny I don't care who you are.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-25-2018, 09:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No hypocrisy.

Political beliefs should not create a "protected class" like race, religion, or sex.

No one is making the argument that it should be.  Of course, in the bakery scenario we're talking about two "protected classes", religious and sexual orientation.  Which one is more "protected"?  If you agree that a business can arbitrarily deny a person service then you open the door for precisely what happened in the bakery scenario.  All the baker would have to do is say is that he denied service "because", having nothing to do with the customers sexual orientation.  In fact, denying service "because" could be used in every single instance in which bigotry was the actual reason, as long as the business doesn't state the real reason.

I don't have an issue with them denying Sanders service, although I think it is extremely petty to do so.  But the can of worms you open by lauding this (and by you I don't mean you specifically, I mean "you" in the sense of anyone it applies to) is essentially allowing anyone the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime.

(06-25-2018, 09:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Also, I just want to add, The Red Hen is ***** delicious and if you are ever in Lexington you should just ignore all the political bullshit and eat there. It's a regular stop for me when I'm in town. It's why the Sanders family stopped in. Because it's delicious, not because of me.

I would never eat there because I don't support businesses that wade in to politics on this level.  I'd have the same issue if a business refused to serve Obama.  I'm sure you'll counter by pointing out that Obama is not as odious as Trump and his administration.  I would generally agree with this.  The problem is, there are many who would not.  The level of vitriol directed at Obama by some, which I have heard personally, is easily the equal of what I've heard about Trump.  In any event, Sanders is not a klan member.  She has different political views, people are of course free to disagree as strenuously as they like.  But refusing to serve people based on those views only serves to further polarize an already heavily polarized society.  An no, the polarization is not due solely to Trump.

(06-25-2018, 10:12 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: so every press secretary ever?

To varying degrees to be sure.  I'd say the Trump administration is unique in modern times so a direct comparison is difficult.  The funny thing to me is the left's cozying up to Bush.  For all Trump's faults he hasn't lied us into a war that killed tens of thousands and drained billions (trillions?) of dollars from our treasury.  The revisionist history at work is nauseating.

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2018, 12:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I would never eat there because I don't support businesses that wade in to politics on this level.  I'd have the same issue if a business refused to serve Obama.  I'm sure you'll counter by pointing out that Obama is not as odious as Trump and his administration.  I would generally agree with this.  The problem is, there are many who would not.  The level of vitriol directed at Obama by some, which I have heard personally, is easily the equal of what I've heard about Trump.  In any event, Sanders is not a klan member.  She has different political views, people are of course free to disagree as strenuously as they like.  But refusing to serve people based on those views only serves to further polarize an already heavily polarized society.  An no, the polarization is not due solely to Trump.

Actually, my counter to this is that if this restaurant didn't serve people that have political ideologies that Sanders espouses in her role as Press Secretary then they would be out of business in short order where they are located. Lexington City is blue, but they are in a sea of red, as is the norm here in the Valley. My argument in all of this is that this isn't even about politics, this is about individuals. You may disagree with that, and that is fine, I freely admit this is my perception of this issue. But that restaurant has served many conservatives, it has served legit members of the KKK, it has played host to Republican lawmakers.

This isn't politics to me, this is about the individual.

[*bfine32*]

I support the restaurant to serve whomever they please; as long as civil rights are not violated. The restaurant asked Ms Sanders to leave and she did so quietly. From my understanding this would not have been brought to light if the waiter didn't post about it.

The free market will bare it out and regardless how tasty Matt suggests this restaurant is you'll never see bfine in there enjoying a meal. This establishment has made it clear that if they disagree with your political views they will not be tolerant of you.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-25-2018, 12:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This isn't politics to me, this is about the individual.

Bullshit. This is about politics. The only thing you can say about Huckabee Sanders' character that we know for a fact is that she's a liar (assuming she KNOWS the stuff she's saying is false - which I would).

So unless you can show me this restaurant refusing to serve other liars or other people with just as bad or worse character flaws, this is nothing BUT politics.

[fredtoast]

(06-25-2018, 12:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This isn't politics to me, this is about the individual.

Sarah Sanders was judged by the content of her character instead of the color of her skin.

[*bfine32*]

(06-25-2018, 01:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sarah Sanders was judged by the content of her character instead of the color of her skin.

It could have been because she was a woman. let's throw the sexual discrimination card out there and see if it sticks.

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2018, 01:11 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Bullshit. This is about politics. The only thing you can say about Huckabee Sanders' character that we know for a fact is that she's a liar (assuming she KNOWS the stuff she's saying is false - which I would).

So unless you can show me this restaurant refusing to serve other liars or other people with just as bad or worse character flaws, this is nothing BUT politics.

I know of enough Republicans that love the place, including our current member of Congress and his nominated successor that both sided with Sanders, to know that this wasn't just about disagreeing with politics. Like I said in my post, though, this is my perception. Feel free to disagree.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-25-2018, 12:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  


To varying degrees to be sure.  I'd say the Trump administration is unique in modern times so a direct comparison is difficult.  The funny thing to me is the left's cozying up to Bush.  For all Trump's faults he hasn't lied us into a war that killed tens of thousands and drained billions (trillions?) of dollars from our treasury.  The revisionist history at work is nauseating.

Yes if you believe that Bush intentionally lied   to get us into a war to benefit Haliburton or whatever reason,(and I'm not here to argue about that) then there is nothing Trump or Sanders has done that can touch that.

[GMDino]

(06-25-2018, 01:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I support the restaurant to serve whomever they please; as long as civil rights are not violated. The restaurant asked Ms Sanders to leave and she did so quietly. From my understanding this would not have been brought to light if the waiter didn't post about it.

I wonder how much tread it would have gotten had Sanders not posted her her 3 million followers on her official government account?

[GMDino]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/16/virginia-bakery-owner-turns-down-biden-visit-over-didnt-build-that.html

Quote:The owner of a Virginia bakery gave Vice President Biden's advance team an answer they probably don't hear too often: No. 


Chris McMurray, owner of "Crumb and Get It" bakery in southwestern Virginia, reportedly refused to let Biden stop by his store Wednesday because of concerns he had about President Obama's "you didn't build that" remark. The president made the controversial comment last month in Roanoke, Va., just miles from McMurray's bakery. 


"This is an opportunity of a lifetime, but essentially I said, 'No offense to you or the campaign but I just decline you guys coming in here,'" McMurray told WDBJ7. 


He said the Biden staffer asked if he was sure, since there would be lots of press and activity. Biden was wrapping up a tour of southern Virginia Wednesday. 


But McMurray reportedly said he objected to the "you didn't build that" line. 

"Speaking of small businesses and entrepreneurs all across this country, and actually last night my wife was up all night. No sleep, she's worked a full 24 hours," he said. 


He and his wife Kelly run the shop. 


Obama said "you didn't build that" in the course of discussing government investments -- like roads -- that have helped business owners thrive. 


Democrats have suggested the president was merely saying small businesses didn't build that infrastructure, but Republicans and some local business owners interpreted it as questioning American entrepreneur's contribution to their own businesses.

Was there a big defense from the right about this in 2012?  

[fredtoast]

I have an example of this that involves people I know personally.

Marta Boggs runs a restaurant called "The Bistro" in Knoxville. Knoxville is very conservative Republican so of course Marta has served many conservative Republicans. But for a while the State Senator form the Knoxville district was an ass hole named Stacy Campfield. Campfield was famous for introducing a bill that would make it illegal for any teacher in public schools to mention homosexuality. He also claimed that AIDS was started by some gay guy screwing a monkey and that it was virtually impossible for AIDS to be transmitted by heterosexual activity.

Marta refused to serve him when he came into the Bistro. Camplfield was a publicity ***** and had proposed many controversial bills promoting gun rights and limiting public assistance. So he had always been controversial, but Marta felt he crossed the line with his homophobic comments and proposed legislation. The Bistro is part of the same building as The Bijou Theatre, so she had a lot of close friends in theatre production where the LGBT community is openly accepted. She had personally seen the effect of homophobia in Knoxville, and she took a stand against it.

But her problem was not with all conservative Republicans, just Campfield because of his position against homosexuals.

[*Nately120*]

Hmm, there is a bar around here that only lets Steeler fans in, so I should show up on game day in a Bengals jersey and when they don't let me in I can declare that straight white men are under attack and being discriminated against!

I mean, it COULD be because I'm being an arse, but it's a better story if I declare they are attacking the most general aspects of me in order to fire up as many people as possible.

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2018, 01:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: I wonder how much tread it would have gotten had Sanders not posted her her 3 million followers on her official government account?

It was already getting significant attention before Sanders' tweet. There was a Yelp war going on Friday night before she commented.

(06-25-2018, 01:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/16/virginia-bakery-owner-turns-down-biden-visit-over-didnt-build-that.html

Was there a big defense from the right about this in 2012?  

No, but this was also a different situation. The owner was declining his business to host a campaign event, not just to serve Biden and his family. That incident is being thrown around a lot after this, but it is also on a different level and should not be used to draw a comparison.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-25-2018, 01:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I know of enough Republicans that love the place, including our current member of Congress and his nominated successor that both sided with Sanders, to know that this wasn't just about disagreeing with politics. Like I said in my post, though, this is my perception. Feel free to disagree.

Just because the place doesn't throw out Republicans regularly doesn't mean this one time was done for a reason other than politics. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-25-2018, 01:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It was already getting significant attention before Sanders' tweet. There was a Yelp war going on Friday night before she commented.

It is my understanding that SH only brought it up after being asked about it. But if you already dislike someone you're going to paint them with the worst brush you can find. Also, I thought her response was quite tame. SHS is not to be blamed here regardless how hard some people try.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-25-2018, 01:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/16/virginia-bakery-owner-turns-down-biden-visit-over-didnt-build-that.html



Was there a big defense from the right about this in 2012?  

Was Biden going there for business or for a "visit"?

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2018, 02:11 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Just because the place doesn't throw out Republicans regularly doesn't mean this one time was done for a reason other than politics. 

I'm just saying that these things point to the situation not being as simple as being "nothing BUT politics" as you claimed. At least to me, anyway.

[*bfine32*]

(06-25-2018, 02:11 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Just because the place doesn't throw out Republicans regularly doesn't mean this one time was done for a reason other than politics. 

Anyone with an ounce of rational knows she was asked to leave because of politics.

What does this suggest:

Quote:Wilkinson further explained her approach to handling the situation. She first spoke with her employees, who disagreed with Sanders' defense of Trump's discriminatory ban on transgender Americans who want to serve in the military and her recent defense of Trump's un-American family separation policy. , she then asked Sanders to step outside to the patio and "explained that the restaurant has certain standards that I feel it has to uphold, such as honesty, and compassion, and cooperation." Clearly, Sanders doesn't comply with that standard.

WTS, I have zero issue with what the owner did, she made it clear what she will not tolerate, Now the episode with Secretary Nielsen was far worse IMO