Were the injuries too much to overcome this year?

[Sled21]

(11-27-2018, 04:31 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: We had 3 TEs go on IR,

Actually 4.....

[XsandOs]

(11-27-2018, 05:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Actually 4.....

Thank you. I lost count.

[lone bengal]

I get it they lost a bunch of tight ends but a good coach could adjust his “ tight end only “oriented playbook. A.J. Green is one of the best receivers in the game , Boyd is one of the best number 2 receivers in the league and Joe Mixion is one of the most dynamic backs in the league. They had all there of these guys vs. a horrific Cheifs defense and could only score 10 points ? They had all 3 of these guys versus Tampa and went 3 and out basically the entire second half until the last play. We have had more then enough weapons on the field at one time and still look stagnant on offense. You don’t need 3 all star receivers and a stud tight end and a running back to be competent on offense.

[intothefray]

(11-26-2018, 06:30 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im just trying to take into consideration
how many difference makers we have lost to injuries.....compared to 2018 PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Eifert 7 games ( 12 overall)
Bernard 4 games
Ross 3 games
Green  3 games
Mixon 2 games
Kroft 6 games??

Glasgow played in 1 game ( 15 missed)
Lawson played in 7 games (9 missed)

I think injuries and Lazors inability to be creative
have really handicapped this season.
once Eifert and Kroft went down that hampered the vertical game.
Glasgow injury is real huge blow to the rotation
and the ability to wreck the pocket up the middle.

look at the Steelers and Chiefs. they have been relatively healthy. the Browns have been healthy as of late.
The Chargers are healthy.

Im just looking at bare facts..once Eifert and Green went down..so did the scoring offense

Actually, the Chargers have had a number of injuries to key people. Joey Bosa missed their first 9 games, CB Jason Verrett went down in training camp and is gone for the season, TE Hunter Henry also got hurt in training camp and has been missing all year, DL Cory Luiget went down with a knee injury in the Denver game and is on IR, LB Denzel Perryman also went down with an injury a couple of weeks back and he also is out for the rest of the season, and Melvin Gordon suffered a sprained MCL and may miss a couple of weeks in addition to playing hurt and missing a game earlier this year. The difference is that the Chargers have been able to work around their injury situation while it is obvious that we haven't been for whatever reason.

[RASCAL]

(11-27-2018, 05:31 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mike McCarthy is not even close to being a great coach. And the Packers don’t have an owner.

give me a ****** break! I'd take mike McCarthy over any OF THE BRAIN DEAD IDIOTS WE HAVE ANY DAY! aND YES THEY DO HAVE AN OWNER. THE fans!!!! Have a great day!

[Junglejuice]

The reason this team cannot win or get it together is because of our sub par coaching staff. Period.
We have a lot of talent on this team that gets squandered every year.

The problem is the Owner not holding this HC and staff accountable. Its been 16 years old. The message is beyond stale.
A cleansing of the staff with new blood could energize this team. At this point a divorce from Marvin Lewis would make me just as happy as a playoff win. Though I am concerned I will see neither anytime soon.

[masonbengals fan]

Injuries have been brutal this year but it's not the only reason we have been so disappointing. My biggest frustration has been our front 4 on D. No pressure at all most games. I liked the extensions but it just hasn't produced results. I'm sure it will give Marvin another season though. Should have been fired after last year.

[BengalsBong]

Can we just stop with the excuses adapt and overcome everyone of these players has been scouted by our team and other NFL teams and most if not all was on draft boards. So they have skill sets to some extent the coaches have to coach them up. The players have to step up when their time comes.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-27-2018, 05:31 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mike McCarthy is not even close to being a great coach. And the Packers don’t have an owner.

McCarthy > Marvin and I doubt anyone would dispute that. Not having an owner > having a terrible owner.

(11-27-2018, 04:50 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Shake, this is not a fair comparison. The offensive starters all started 15-16 games that year for them. Bulaga was a rookie and started 12 games.

They lost Finley early in the season, but they had Donald Lee who was their starter in 2009,and he stepped in and played in 15 games.

Look at how many games our offensive starters have started. We Lost four TEs (corrected) to IR and all the remaining TEs have lost time, with the exception of Uzomah.

You can lose one or two starters, when the remaining 9, gives you an average of 15 starts.

Rodgers, Driver and Jennings started 15+ games that year. Again, although Finley got hurt, their starting TE from the year before played in 15 games. All this, behind an OL that four of five started 16 games, and a rookie first round pick started 12.

Not a fair comparison.

Okay, if you think it's unfair, lets go more in depth to see. Here's the list of Packers injuries in 2010:

- Nick Barnett missed all but the first 4 games (starting LB)
- Brad Jones missed all but 6 games (starting LB)
- Brandon Chillar missed all but the first 8 games (rotational LB)
- Mike Neal missed all but 2 games (rookie 2nd round LB who showed lots of promise)
- Brady Poppinga missed all but 6 games (rotational LB)
- Morgan Burnett missed all but the first 4 games (starting safety)
- Derrick Martin missed all but 5 games (backup safety who got plenty of P.T.)
- Justin Harrell only played 1 game (he'd been a rotational DT in years past)

- Jermichael Finley missed all but the first 5 games (starting TE, far better than Lee)
- Ryan Grant only played 1 game (starting RB)
- Mark Tauscher missed all but 4 games (long time starting RT)

...and that's just their IR list. They had the following players miss (at least) the first 6 weeks on the PUP list:

Atari Bigby (former starting safety)
James Starks (the guy who would've been starting at RB with Ryan Grant out)
Al Harris (long time starting CB)

So to sum it up, their LB core (an integral part of their 3-4 defense) was absolutely decimated with 5 season ending injuries, all early in the season. Their safeties were also decimated with 3 major injuries. And even though the offense saw fewer injuries, they were all huge. They had to use their 3rd string RB for most of the season, they lost their starting RT and their starting TE who was a much bigger weapon than Donald Lee, who was strictly a blocker at that point. 

Tbh, their injuries blow ours away, and many of our injuries occurred after the slide began. 

AJ Green (missed 3 games, but we were 1-2 in his last 3 games anyway)
Dalton (he's going to miss 5 games, but we were 1-5 in his last 6 weeks)

^^^ I don't even count these 2 injuries, because the fall was already well under way. Can't blame losing on these 2 injuries when we were losing with them. 

Mixon (missed 2 games, but we had a healthy Gio in that time)
Gio (missed 4 games, but we had a healthy Mixon in that time)
Eifert (big loss, but no bigger than Finley...and we had to know it was coming)
Kroft (TE losses have been a problem, for sure)
Lawson (defense stunk with or without him)
Burfict 4 game suspension (see Lawson)
Brown (see Burfict)
Vigil 
Glasgow
Price


Our IR list includes the following names: 

Trayvon Henderson
Mason Schreck
Cethan Carter
Adolphus Washington
Josh Topou
Rod Taylor

So half of our "13 players on IR" are nobodies. Throw away players. Not only did Green Bay lose more players for more games, they were higher quality players (with exception of Dalton/Green, but like I said, slide had already begun).  

[*Synric*]

(11-27-2018, 08:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: McCarthy > Marvin and I doubt anyone would dispute that. Not having an owner > having a terrible owner.



Mixon (missed 2 games, but we had a healthy Gio in that time)
Gio (missed 4 games, but we had a healthy Mixon in that time)
Eifert (big loss, but no bigger than Finley...and we had to know it was coming)
Kroft (TE losses have been a problem, for sure)
Vigil 
Glasgow

Actually I could argue Marvin over McCarthy because McCarthy is ruining the career or one of the best QBs in football...
Why do I say this because he has a super bowl win? McCarthy has Aaron Rodgers but refuses to put in a good offensive system. The Packers are extremely generic with their offense instead depending on Rodgers to be spectacular every snap. They don't do things like the Patriots, Rams, Chiefs, Saints who use their system to get guys in space.

As for the Bengals injuries the RB injuries hurt because they had no one to spell the other guy. And Glasgow was the 1 of 3 DT to start the season when he went down they were forces to use a rookie DE inside where he wasn't suited. The TEs dropped one right after another never giving them a solid game with 2 tight ends mid season having to bring in a new one each week.

So of course injuries have played a part. Is it the only reason they are losing no but it's a huge one.

[eoxyod]

(11-27-2018, 02:41 PM)Sled21 Wrote: They did.... he went on IR as well.....

Cody Core isn't on IR though

[impactplaya]

(11-27-2018, 05:48 PM)intothefray Wrote: Actually, the Chargers have had a number of injuries to key people. Joey Bosa missed their first 9 games, CB Jason Verrett went down in training camp and is gone for the season, TE Hunter Henry also got hurt in training camp and has been missing all year, DL Cory Luiget went down with a knee injury in the Denver game and is on IR, LB Denzel Perryman also went down with an injury a couple of weeks back and he also is out for the rest of the season, and Melvin Gordon suffered a sprained MCL and may miss a couple of weeks in addition to playing hurt and missing a game earlier this year. The difference is that the Chargers have been able to work around their injury situation while it is obvious that we haven't been for whatever reason.

your right.the Chargers have been hit hard with injuries on defense.
but I think in this day and age of the NFL
offense is king and its harder to replace injured guys on offense then defense.it also helps when your QB is a future HOF too.
hes had Allen and the Williams boys healthy all year and Gates can still get open and make catches.
if your offense can score points its make it easier on your defense 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-27-2018, 08:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: McCarthy > Marvin and I doubt anyone would dispute that. Not having an owner > having a terrible owner.


Okay, if you think it's unfair, lets go more in depth to see. Here's the list of Packers injuries in 2010:

- Nick Barnett missed all but the first 4 games (starting LB)
- Brad Jones missed all but 6 games (starting LB)
- Brandon Chillar missed all but the first 8 games (rotational LB)
- Mike Neal missed all but 2 games (rookie 2nd round LB who showed lots of promise)
- Brady Poppinga missed all but 6 games (rotational LB)
- Morgan Burnett missed all but the first 4 games (starting safety)
- Derrick Martin missed all but 5 games (backup safety who got plenty of P.T.)
- Justin Harrell only played 1 game (he'd been a rotational DT in years past)

- Jermichael Finley missed all but the first 5 games (starting TE, far better than Lee)
- Ryan Grant only played 1 game (starting RB)
- Mark Tauscher missed all but 4 games (long time starting RT)

...and that's just their IR list. They had the following players miss (at least) the first 6 weeks on the PUP list:

Atari Bigby (former starting safety)
James Starks (the guy who would've been starting at RB with Ryan Grant out)
Al Harris (long time starting CB)

So to sum it up, their LB core (an integral part of their 3-4 defense) was absolutely decimated with 5 season ending injuries, all early in the season. Their safeties were also decimated with 3 major injuries. And even though the offense saw fewer injuries, they were all huge. They had to use their 3rd string RB for most of the season, they lost their starting RT and their starting TE who was a much bigger weapon than Donald Lee, who was strictly a blocker at that point. 

Tbh, their injuries blow ours away, and many of our injuries occurred after the slide began. 

AJ Green (he's going to wind up missing 5+ games, but we were 1-2 in his last 3 games anyway)
Dalton (he's going to miss 5 games, but we were 1-5 in his last 6 weeks)

^^^ I don't even count these 2 injuries, because the fall was already well under way. Can't blame losing on these 2 injuries when we were losing with them. 

Mixon (missed 2 games, but we had a healthy Gio in that time)
Gio (missed 4 games, but we had a healthy Mixon in that time)
Eifert (big loss, but no bigger than Finley...and we had to know it was coming)
Kroft (TE losses have been a problem, for sure)
Lawson (defense stunk with or without him)
Burfict 4 game suspension (see Lawson)
Brown (see Burfict)
Vigil 
Glasgow
Price


Our IR list includes the following names: 

Trayvon Henderson
Mason Schreck
Cethan Carter
Adolphus Washington
Josh Topou
Rod Taylor

So half of our "13 players on IR" are nobodies. Throw away players. Not only did Green Bay lose more players for more games, they were higher quality players (with exception of Dalton/Green, but like I said, slide had already begun).  

Agreed. Our injuries aren't that bad compared to other teams.

We're chasing the elusive white whale...the 1st playoff win under Mike Brown. We need all the forces to align and catch lightning in a bottle to get one.

[XsandOs]

(11-27-2018, 08:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: McCarthy > Marvin and I doubt anyone would dispute that. Not having an owner > having a terrible owner.


Okay, if you think it's unfair, lets go more in depth to see. Here's the list of Packers injuries in 2010:

- Nick Barnett missed all but the first 4 games (starting LB)
- Brad Jones missed all but 6 games (starting LB)
- Brandon Chillar missed all but the first 8 games (rotational LB)
- Mike Neal missed all but 2 games (rookie 2nd round LB who showed lots of promise)
- Brady Poppinga missed all but 6 games (rotational LB)
- Morgan Burnett missed all but the first 4 games (starting safety)
- Derrick Martin missed all but 5 games (backup safety who got plenty of P.T.)
- Justin Harrell only played 1 game (he'd been a rotational DT in years past)

- Jermichael Finley missed all but the first 5 games (starting TE, far better than Lee)
- Ryan Grant only played 1 game (starting RB)
- Mark Tauscher missed all but 4 games (long time starting RT)

...and that's just their IR list. They had the following players miss (at least) the first 6 weeks on the PUP list:

Atari Bigby (former starting safety)
James Starks (the guy who would've been starting at RB with Ryan Grant out)
Al Harris (long time starting CB)

So to sum it up, their LB core (an integral part of their 3-4 defense) was absolutely decimated with 5 season ending injuries, all early in the season. Their safeties were also decimated with 3 major injuries. And even though the offense saw fewer injuries, they were all huge. They had to use their 3rd string RB for most of the season, they lost their starting RT and their starting TE who was a much bigger weapon than Donald Lee, who was strictly a blocker at that point. 

Tbh, their injuries blow ours away, and many of our injuries occurred after the slide began. 

AJ Green (he's going to wind up missing 5+ games, but we were 1-2 in his last 3 games anyway)
Dalton (he's going to miss 5 games, but we were 1-5 in his last 6 weeks)

^^^ I don't even count these 2 injuries, because the fall was already well under way. Can't blame losing on these 2 injuries when we were losing with them. 

Mixon (missed 2 games, but we had a healthy Gio in that time)
Gio (missed 4 games, but we had a healthy Mixon in that time)
Eifert (big loss, but no bigger than Finley...and we had to know it was coming)
Kroft (TE losses have been a problem, for sure)
Lawson (defense stunk with or without him)
Burfict 4 game suspension (see Lawson)
Brown (see Burfict)
Vigil 
Glasgow
Price


Our IR list includes the following names: 

Trayvon Henderson
Mason Schreck
Cethan Carter
Adolphus Washington
Josh Topou
Rod Taylor

So half of our "13 players on IR" are nobodies. Throw away players. Not only did Green Bay lose more players for more games, they were higher quality players (with exception of Dalton/Green, but like I said, slide had already begun).  

Let's compare the two teams related to starters when the season is over.

Their OL, receivers and QB were essentially untouched. Big difference!

[lone bengal]

impactplaya Wrote:your right.the Chargers have been hit hard with injuries on defense.
but I think in this day and age of the NFL
offense is king and its harder to replace injured guys on offense then defense.it also helps when your QB is a future HOF too.
hes had Allen and the Williams boys healthy all year and Gates can still get open and make catches.
if your offense can score points its make it easier on your defense 

Having a future hall of fame QB definitely elevates the entire offensive, Rivers has been a stud for a while.  But Green is better than Allen and Boyd is a better than the Williams boys combined and is one of the best number 2 receivers in the game this season. Joe Mixion has a talent level similar to Melvin Gordon. Green, Boyd and Mixon together should be enough weapons to put up points and be somewhat explosive. Green, Boyd and Mixon were all healthy vs. a terrible Chiefs defense and they score 10 points ? Green, Boyd and Mixon all healthy vs. Tampa Bay where were they in the 2nd half? 

[Sled21]

(11-27-2018, 10:08 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Cody Core isn't on IR though

He's also not a tight end....

[HuDey]

This delicate organization crumbles the second anything forces them to alter their “plan”.

Game plan: If the opponent figures out how to defeat ours, we’re screwed. No ability to adjust.

Injuries: Pittsburgh can play all season without Bell but if one guy goes down over here we can no longer function.

Cheerleaders: When the weather gets cold other teams will throw on the coats and yoga pants and go out there and high kick it up. The Ben-Gals .....Well, they probably put on cheaper coats and yoga pants and cheer with less spirit. I don’t have stats to back that up, it’s just a theory ok...Let me live.

[McC]

(11-28-2018, 09:44 AM)HuDey Wrote: This delicate organization crumbles the second anything forces them to alter their “plan”.

Game plan: If the opponent figures out how to defeat ours, we’re screwed. No ability to adjust.

Injuries: Pittsburgh can play all season without Bell but if one guy goes down over here we can no longer function.

Cheerleaders: When the weather gets cold other teams will throw on the coats and yoga pants and go out there and high kick it up. The Ben-Gals .....Well, they probably put on cheaper coats and yoga pants and cheer with less spirit. I don’t have stats to back that up, it’s just a theory ok...Let me live.

So true.  One of the biggest problems with the organization

[THE PISTONS]

(11-28-2018, 12:02 AM)XsandOs Wrote: Let's compare the two teams related to starters when the season is over.

Their OL, receivers and QB were essentially untouched. Big d

I fear that injuries will be the reason for the Bengals to go status quo with the coaching staff and roster.

Even healthy, this roster wasn't winning a playoff game.

Our roster is maybe somewhere in the 20-25th best roster in the NFL when healthy.

[eoxyod]

(11-28-2018, 09:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: He's also not a tight end....

Issa joke about how the team has him in on random key downs