Whatever happen to that caravan, anyway?

[*bfine32*]

(11-30-2018, 08:02 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL Russians ok though?

I suppose it depends on what we get in return, but No, he doesn't have to share his intel gathering methods with Russia. Do you have an example of him doing so? 

[Belsnickel]

(11-30-2018, 07:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course it doesn't. I suppose you can say whatever you want without proof, but it doesn't hold much water with rational folks. 

You mean like claiming there are 300-500 criminals in the migrant caravan without offering any evidence?

(11-30-2018, 07:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: no one can tell you what percentage are criminal; however, there's no shortage of folks to say POTUS is wrong when he says 300-500 simply because...

I think most people are saying that Trump has no evidence to support his claims.

[Belsnickel]

(11-30-2018, 08:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose it depends on what we get in return, but No, he doesn't have to share his intel gathering methods with Russia. Do you have an example of him doing so? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-russia-israel-intelligence-share-isis-mossad-spies-sergei-lavrov-kislyak-us-a8071086.html

[*bfine32*]

(11-30-2018, 08:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-russia-israel-intelligence-share-isis-mossad-spies-sergei-lavrov-kislyak-us-a8071086.html

As I said: I suppose it depends on what we get in return. Thanks for the example illustrating that.

[fredtoast]

(11-30-2018, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: POTUS does not need to share his intel gathering methods with you. 

You mean he does not have to share it with his base who believes everything he says.

But everyone else knows him as one of the biggest liars ever so we need a little evidence to back up his claim.

[*bfine32*]

(11-30-2018, 08:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean he does not have to share it with his base who believes everything he says.

But everyone else knows him as one of the biggest liars ever so we need a little evidence to back up his claim.

Nope, I mean he doesn't have to share it with you, the media, or the public.

I could post examples of other POTUS saying things that we were to take as face value. But the Guardians of the Forum would sweep in and say I'm changing the subject. 

[fredtoast]

(11-30-2018, 07:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  I suppose you can say whatever you want without proof, but it doesn't hold much water with rational folks. 

(11-30-2018, 08:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You mean like claiming there are 300-500 criminals in the migrant caravan without offering any evidence?

 

That was too easy.

[Belsnickel]

(11-30-2018, 08:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: I suppose it depends on what we get in return. Thanks for the example illustrating that.

So what did we get from Russia for that information?

[Dill]

(11-30-2018, 08:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose it depends on what we get in return, but No, he doesn't have to share his intel gathering methods with Russia. Do you have an example of him doing so? 

Well, I have an example of him sharing classified intel, which raised the ire of the intel community precisely because it revealed not only methods but also sources.  Will that do? It warranted its own Wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%27s_disclosures_of_classified_information

Not just the Russians.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-submarines/trump-tells-duterte-of-two-u-s-nuclear-subs-in-korean-waters-nyt-idUSKBN18K15Y

Not sure what "we" get in return. POTUS is finally BFF with Putin? Trump Tower in Moscow, eventually?

People just looking for ways to slam Trump can always find something wrong in sidestepping protocol to leak classified intel to adversaries. Or maybe it's not a "leak" if the president does it. But if the intel comes from allies, as in this case, they may think so, though.

Trump can choose NOT to share intel with the American people though. It's his prerogative. Hypothetical example: his own intel tells him there is no evidence of ISIS supporters or MS 13 gang-members in the caravan.

[fredtoast]

(11-30-2018, 08:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I could post examples of other POTUS saying things that we were to take as face value. 

And how many of those things were true?

Look, I know you will try to say that every President lied, but the fact is that Trump has told more lies and bigger lies than any President ever.  It is absurd for anyone to take anything he says at face value.

[fredtoast]

(11-30-2018, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do and each citizen should be extended that courtesy. Did you second guess your "got ya" when you had to type the words "this Nation"?

Nope.  Just quoted the exact words you used.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-30-2018, 08:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You mean like claiming there are 300-500 criminals in the migrant caravan without offering any evidence?


I think most people are saying that Trump has no evidence to support his claims.

Uhm didn't the DHS claim there was that many as well back in mid November? and now they are claiming up to 600.
DHS has paid informants embedded in the Caravan, and they are intercepting WhatsApp messages to find out what they are planning to do.

Such as entering the country illegally etc. This caravan is different from previous caravans based on their actions alone. IE Running for it at the border, those types are going to be mainly criminals because they know they have no chance if they actually do it the legal way and apply.


In reality, of the k's that apply for asylum every year, 90% are rejected because their is not enough supporting evidence that their lives are truly in danger.

The majority of the rejections fall under the family based applications which can have up to an 8+ year long wait.
The second most reason for rejections is escaping poverty. Which again, wrong class of visa's, they would need to apply for workers visa's.

So out of this 5K in the migrant van, we can expect the same ratio or less to actually be approved. The majority are trying to be with family here or escaping poverty. So with that in mind, around 500 will actually be able to enter on the asylum visa.

[*bfine32*]

This statement from the ACLU speaks to the mentality of many on the left.

Guy leaves his family, takes one of his children, puts her in a dangerous situation, crosses the border with her illegally, doesn't provide her with food and water, and the poor child dies of dehydration ans exhaustion.

But you'll never guess where the ACLU tries to place the blame:

Quote:The ACLU blamed “lack of accountability, and a culture of cruelty within CBP” for the girl’s death. “The fact that it took a week for this to come to light shows the need for transparency for CBP. We call for a rigorous investigation into how this tragedy happened and serious reforms to prevent future deaths,” Cynthia Pompa, advocacy manager for the ACLU Border Rights Center, said in a statement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.ba7d5d2e03b0

That's right, US Customs and Border Patrol are to blame.

[GMDino]

(12-17-2018, 11:01 AM)bfine32 Wrote: This statement from the ACLU speaks to the mentality of many on the left.

Guy leaves his family, takes one of his children, puts her in a dangerous situation, crosses the border with her illegally, doesn't provide her with food and water, and the poor child dies of dehydration ans exhaustion.

But you'll never guess where the ACLU tries to place the blame:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.ba7d5d2e03b0

That's right, US Customs and Border Patrol are to blame.

That reads more like they would like more transparency into how these things happen and how often.

Believe it or not not everyone trusts the government to be honest to them when someone dies in their custody.  

All seriousness aside, the ACLU defends both "the left" and the right so this is cherry picking because it's an issue you disagree with them on.

[*bfine32*]

(12-17-2018, 11:05 AM)GMDino Wrote: 1. That reads more like they would like more transparency into how these things happen and how often.

2. Believe it or not not everyone trusts the government to be honest to them when someone dies in their custody.  

3. All seriousness aside, the ACLU defends both "the left" and the right so this is cherry picking because it's an issue you disagree with them on.

1. Oh, I read it as the blaming a culture of cruelty for the child's death

2. No doubt. There's a good chance they dehydrated the child once in their custody; most likely after the beatings.

3. 2funny. But guilty as charged. I disagree with their assertion that CBP in to blame for the child's death. How about you?

[GMDino]

(12-17-2018, 11:09 AM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. Oh, I read it as the blaming a culture of cruelty for the child's death

2. No doubt. There's a good chance they dehydrated the child once in their custody; most likely after the beatings.

3. 2funny. But guilty as charged. I disagree with their assertion that CBP in to blame for the child's death. How about you?

Everyone one of your responses shows your bias.

Again, the ACLU doesn't speak "to the mentality of many on the left."


This one statement is questioning how children are being handled when separated from their parents.  How did she make the journey without dying and then die not long after being place in the loving arms of Mother America?  I'm sure we will find out more.


If we are going to detain everyone asking for asylum or entry then we are responsible for their well-being (like giving her food and water in the detention center).  We are the better person even if the father didn't feed his daughter for two days (according to the statement from the government).


But as long as you can say "the left" is something I guess it makes you feel better.

[*bfine32*]

(12-17-2018, 11:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: Everyone one of your responses shows your bias.

Again, the ACLU doesn't speak "to the mentality of many on the left."


This one statement is questioning how children are being handled when separated from their parents.  How did she make the journey without dying and then die not long after being place in the loving arms of Mother America?  I'm sure we will find out more.


If we are going to detain everyone asking for asylum or entry then we are responsible for their well-being (like giving her food and water in the detention center).  We are the better person even if the father didn't feed his daughter for two days (according to the statement from the government).


But as long as you can say "the left" is something I guess it makes you feel better.

As I said they spoke to the Left's mentality. Thanks for illustrating the point so well. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-17-2018, 11:05 AM)GMDino Wrote: All seriousness aside, the ACLU defends both "the left" and the right so this is cherry picking because it's an issue you disagree with them on.

This is, sadly, not nearly as true as it once was.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/06/26/the-aclus-divided-heart/?utm_term=.d6c6e69aab24

As an aside, in your post why is "the left" in quotes and "the right" is not?

[GMDino]

(12-17-2018, 11:41 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is, sadly, not nearly as true as it once was.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/06/26/the-aclus-divided-heart/?utm_term=.d6c6e69aab24

As an aside, in your post why is "the left" in quotes and "the right" is not?

I was referring to bfine's commenting on "the left" (quoting him)...he did not comment on the right.

[*bfine32*]

(12-17-2018, 11:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: I was referring to bfine's commenting on "the left" (quoting him)...he did not comment on the right.

I actually said many on the Left in my OP on the matter. I did this to illustrate there are some on the Left that does not blame the CBP for this child's death. You are the one that decided to attribute it to "the Left" in your haste to prove me wrong.