Where are the Parents

[*bfine32*]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/man-arrested-punching-child-ground-mall-fight-191056422.html

A 51 year old male has been charged with assault for punch a youth that charged at him. But who really but this child's welfare in danger?

Quote:The shopper tells Yahoo Lifestyle that teens — not necessarily the ones featured in the video — regularly run amok in the mall being “loud and disrespectful” and making a mess in stores. “I just don’t understand how a parent can drop off their child at a mall and think it’s a safe environment.”

[Vas Deferens]

Working 3 jobs to earn a living wage in the gig economy.

[BmorePat87]

The malls should enact rules regarding unaccompanied minors if this is a big problem. Dropping kids off at malls have been a thing for decades, though I am personally in the camp that no one middle school or younger should be left allowed to roam free at a mall without adult supervision.

That said, this dude is a ***** loser. If your response to an 11 year old is to forcibly shove her and then deck her, you have some issues.

[Benton]

(01-14-2019, 11:09 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Working 3 jobs to earn a living wage in the gig economy.

Pretty much.

There's a water park near where I live that, if there were more bad people in the world, would likely be host to more bad stuff. Basically, it's daycare. But cheaper. For a $22 under 12 ticket, you get all day "daycare." That's like a third of daycare. My daughter loves going there, but I hate it as it's basically just mobs of 6-12 years olds running around with no supervision.

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2019, 11:59 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The malls should enact rules regarding unaccompanied minors if this is a big problem. Dropping kids off at malls have been a thing for decades, though I am personally in the camp that no one middle school or younger should be left allowed to roam free at a mall without adult supervision.

That said, this dude is a ***** loser. If your response to an 11 year old is to forcibly shove her and then deck her, you have some issues.

I've seen the damage an 11 year old can do.

He ignored her one, pushed her away once, and then when she charged him a 3rd time he eliminated the threat. 

Of course we'd prefer he just turn the other cheek; however, we have no idea the threat he felt directed against him. He seemed pretty much surrounded. 

As to your first point. I feel the parents should be charged with neglect. 

[BmorePat87]

(01-15-2019, 12:22 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I've seen the damage an 11 year old can do.

He ignored her one, pushed her away once, and then when she charged him a 3rd time he eliminated the threat. 

Of course we'd prefer he just turn the other cheek; however, we have no idea the threat he felt directed against him. He seemed pretty much surrounded. 

No doubt the tiny child he shoved 10 feet presented a threat that he had to "eliminate".

Quote:As to your first point. I feel the parents should be charged with neglect. 

Depends on local laws. I don't think a child that age should be out by themselves. I could see a fine being a reasonable response.

[*bfine32*]

(01-15-2019, 12:41 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No doubt the tiny child he shoved 10 feet presented a threat that he had to "eliminate".



Depends on local laws. I don't think a child that age should be out by themselves. I could see a fine being a reasonable response.

And what would be a reasonable response for the guy that defended his space? 

I understand you are in the position to dismiss a child as no threat; however, many are not. 

 

[BmorePat87]

(01-15-2019, 12:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And what would be a reasonable response for the guy that defended his space? 

I understand you are in the position to dismiss a child as no threat; however, many are not. 

 

Restraining the child or walking away would have been better responses than slugging her in the face. He walked into the middle of a fight to try to break up the fight and it didn't work. Then he shoved one of the girls and punched them. It's fair to say that point he's being counterproductive to his original aims. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-15-2019, 12:54 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Restraining the child or walking away would have been better responses than slugging her in the face. He walked into the middle of a fight to try to break up the fight and it didn't work. Then he shoved one of the girls and punched them. It's fair to say that point he's being counterproductive to his original aims. 

By reasonable response I meant what should be his punishment as I was replying to your post that a fine would be a reasonable response for the parents.

It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and suggest what he should have done. The child attacked him 3 times. How do we know she didn't have a weapon? 

As to restraining: that's often what we did with the children; however, I doubt you'd like what you saw. 

[BmorePat87]

(01-15-2019, 01:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: By reasonable response I meant what should be his punishment as I was replying to your post that a fine would be a reasonable response for the parents.

His arrest was a reasonable first response. I think some sort of probation was be a reasonable punishment.

Quote:It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and suggest what he should have done. The child attacked him 3 times. How do we know she didn't have a weapon? 

It's a bit easier being a teacher and trained in how to deal with kids fighting. Believe it or not, I have never seen a teacher punch a student or even push them in response to a fight. This guy clearly is not trained to be stopping this fight, but attacking a person is usually not how you end a fight.

I never saw her attack him three times. I saw her push him once. I then saw her get in his face and him shove her roughly 10 feet. As she ran back at him, he slugged her in the face. So she put her hands on him once and then he put her hands on her twice. 

Quote:As to restraining: that's often what we did with the children; however, I doubt you'd like what you saw. 

And in what context was that?

[*bfine32*]

(01-15-2019, 01:22 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: His arrest was a reasonable first response. I think some sort of probation was be a reasonable punishment.





It's a bit easier being a teacher and trained in how to deal with kids fighting. Believe it or not, I have never seen a teacher punch a student or even push them in response to a fight. This guy clearly is not trained to be stopping this fight, but attacking a person is usually not how you end a fight.

I never saw her attack him three times. I saw her push him once. I then saw her get in his face and him shove her roughly 10 feet. As she ran back at him, he slugged her in the face. So she put her hands on him once and then he put her hands on her twice. 





And in what context was that?

Of course your training and actions took place in a controlled environment. Dude was not in such a place. Amazing how you never saw the child attack dude, but you easily saw dude attack her. He attacked no one; at no time was he the aggressor. 

Zip ties.Lots and lots of zip ties. 

[BmorePat87]

(01-15-2019, 01:34 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course your training and actions took place in a controlled environment. Dude was not in such a place.  Amazing how you never saw the child attack dude, but you easily saw dude attack her. He attacked no one; at no time was he the aggressor. 

Zip ties.Lots and lots of zip ties. 

I stated that I saw the child push him once and then him push her and punch her. I didn't see her attack him three times. 

Where were you when you were zip tying this child and what had they done prior?

[Benton]

(01-15-2019, 12:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And what would be a reasonable response for the guy that defended his space? 


 

From the story linked, it sounds like he interjected himself into some kind of altercation, so I'm not sure if it was ever "his space." His original intent (breaking up some kind of fight) may have been noble, but that ended when he punched someone a third his size. It's not like he was going to his car and got jumped by some hoodlums, he stepped into a situation he was apparently unable to handle.

[Au165]

(01-15-2019, 02:29 AM)Benton Wrote: From the story linked, it sounds like he interjected himself into some kind of altercation, so I'm not sure if it was ever "his space." His original intent (breaking up some kind of fight) may have been noble, but that ended when he punched someone a third his size. It's not like he was going to his car and got jumped by some hoodlums, he stepped into a situation he was apparently unable to handle.

Yea, basically this. My guess is a judge will empathize with a guy trying to break up a fight, but he really had no business doing it, and he'll get community service. Teachers who break up fights at school deal with this kind of thing all the time, but they can't go off and just knock the kids out. Even in these cases where it is part of their job they have chosen not to get involved and let them fight because the law has not been kind to those who get between fighting children and cause more damage than was reasonably expected during the fight. 

[*Nately120*]

If there are two things I hear from people it is that parents these days are too overprotective, they helicopter, they don't let kids be kids and experience thigns and make mistakes and blah blah blah....

then when kids are little shits because they are running amok it's all "Where are their parents?" and so on and so forth. I tells ya, a parent just can't win.

[GMDino]

An 11 year old is a threat?

Jesbus we have some fake alphas out there in the world.  "Get off my lawn!"  LOL

As to kids in the mall: Varies ones around here (that are still open) put rules in years ago restricting what ages can be left alone and what hours others can be there without a guardian.  I hesitated to drop my 16 year old daughter and her bf off one time because I didn't know the rules at the time and I told her that if there was any trouble for the security to call me immediately.

Also, at 49 I can remember kids being aholes in malls for 30 years...nothing new under the sun.

[Dill]

(01-15-2019, 12:22 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I've seen the damage an 11 year old can do.

He ignored her one, pushed her away once, and then when she charged him a 3rd time he eliminated the threat. 

Of course we'd prefer he just turn the other cheek; however, we have no idea the threat he felt directed against him. He seemed pretty much surrounded. 

As to your first point. I feel the parents should be charged with neglect. 

LOL "eliminated the threat."  

Should have just let the sniper team handle it.  

[Dill]

(01-15-2019, 10:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: An 11 year old is a threat?

Jesbus we have some fake alphas out there in the world.  "Get off my lawn!"  LOL

As to kids in the mall: Varies ones around here (that are still open) put rules in years ago restricting what ages can be left alone and what hours others can be there without a guardian.  I hesitated to drop my 16 year old daughter and her bf off one time because I didn't know the rules at the time and I told her that if there was any trouble for the security to call me immediately.

Also, at 49 I can remember kids being aholes in malls for 30 years...nothing new under the sun.

I have to say, though, I share some of Bfine's distress about this.

Kids have hung out at malls for years.  Yes, but when I was young, and for decades after, I never saw the level of disrespect for adults that is common now.

It is not ok to punch a child, even if the child punches you.  That said, I think something is definitely wrong with this girl who challenges an adult breaking up a fight. She did come at the guy and put up her dukes like she was ready to go a round.  Where was HER head doing something like that?  Why did she think she could engage an adult as an equal, first verbally, then physically?  50 years ago people would tsk tsk the man but also call this a lesson for an unruly kid. When she woke up, did she and her friends think it was really unfair how this guy she was going to punch knocked her out?

The problem here is not just the guy, which I think was Bfine's point, or part of it, and if so I agree.

Further, I wonder if the guy has PTSD? If so, that was a bad situation for him. He was surrounded by hostile  yelling tweens, one of whom shoved him in the back. Looked to me like he was already triggered when he first shoved the girl.  Then when she came at him again, and put up her fists, he went into "eliminate the threat mode."  But the ROE is all different in civilian life.

[GMDino]

(01-15-2019, 10:36 AM)Dill Wrote: I have to say, though, I share some of Bfine's distress about this.

Kids have hung out at malls for years.  Yes, but when I was young, and for decades after, I never saw the level of disrespect for adults that is common now.

It is not ok to punch a child, even if the child punches you.  That said, I think something is definitely wrong with this girl who challenges an adult breaking up a fight. She did run at the guy and put up her dukes like she was ready to go a round.  Where was HER head doing something like that?  Why did she think she could engage an adult as an equal, first verbally, then physically?

SOME kids have always been like that.  That's why I try not to lump all kids in with the areses.

But as to why she did it?  Maybe because 11 year old kids can be quite stupid.  Could be parenting, could be bad genes, could just be a bad kid.

No matter what though some "men" really amuse me.

[Dill]

(01-15-2019, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: SOME kids have always been like that.  That's why I try not to lump all kids in with the areses.

But as to why she did it?  Maybe because 11 year old kids can be quite stupid.  Could be parenting, could be bad genes, could just be a bad kid.

No matter what though some "men" really amuse me.

LOL I don't remember a kid being quite like that in my day.   There are no really bad kids, but there are bad parents for sure.

I felt sorry for the guy though.  Looks like PTSD to me.

But maybe he just grew up in a really strict home, where women of any age don't get to talk back.  So this sassy girl just triggered him and he handled it exactly the way good old dad would have.

I can see myself in the same situation, trying to break up a fight, but then I would have just held the girl at arms length if she attacked me, at most pushed her away in self defense. Even if she hit me, I'd be inclined to leave it up to the law.

Landing a haymaker with closed fist on an 80 lb child--that is something else.

Bad people on both sides of this one.