Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump

[GMDino]

(09-24-2019, 02:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It's fascinating because he keeps admitting to everything and then scrambles to explain why it was actually innocent. 

[CJD]

(09-24-2019, 12:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: True. Prior to 2016 a man getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar twice (colluding with a foreign state to attack America and her citizens to win election/reelection) would have been treacherous and impeachable behavior.

In 2019 it's celebrated by about 40 million "Americans".

This is my hot take:
I think the likelihood that this will impact Joe Biden's candidacy for President is far greater than the likelihood that this will impact Donald Trump's candidacy for re-election.

The left, generally speaking, is far less tolerant of corruption or scandal than the right is. And I think even the appearance of a quid pro quo to facilitate a form of nepotism by a vice president is a really bad look for a Democrat. And if he wanted that prosecutor fired to protect his son from investigation, that will not be viewed favorably by the left.

That said, I am not sure anything will happen unless we get the actual details of either what Biden did or did not do to get his son that job (or if there was a significant conflict of interest that had an effect on the anti-corruption measures taken in Ukraine created by Hunter's presence in the area) or if the prosecutor even intended to investigate Hunter in any way. In addition, In order for Trump to suffer any repercussions, the details on what Trump did and did not say or promise or threaten in order to get someone to look into the Bidens or what was actually said during that phone call need to be released.

At the end of the day, I expect this to just fade away into the background just like every single other scandalous action by this president does. He'll say or do something else in the next few days and we'll talk about that for a week and the cycle will continue. When you never have time to stew in one scandal before the next arrives, it's hard for any one scandal to have any real impact, unfortunately...

[*bfine32*]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-has-authorized-release-of-transcript-of-call-with-the-ukrainian-president/ar-AAHMg2F?ocid=ientp

Quote:UPDATE: House Speaker Pelosi will announce a formal impeachment inquiry of Trump.



The announcement later Tuesday from Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) comes amid reports that President Trump may have pressured a foreign leader to investigate former vice president and potential 2020 campaign rival Joe Biden and his family. A growing number of House Democrats are backing an impeachment inquiry as momentum shifts in the Democratic caucus. Democratic officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak frankly, said she would back the step. This is a developing story and will be updated.

Get your popcorn ready

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-24-2019, 04:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-has-authorized-release-of-transcript-of-call-with-the-ukrainian-president/ar-AAHMg2F?ocid=ientp


Get your popcorn ready

I have this weird feeling that this is a set up.  Maybe I'm giving Trump too much credit.

[*bfine32*]

(09-24-2019, 04:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have this weird feeling that this is a set up.  Maybe I'm giving Trump too much credit.

Either way it promises to be entertaining. Matt clued me in on some of the particulars; as this is one I haven't been following. But if Trump "forced" another sovereign nation to spy on one of our citizens then I can see what all the fuss is about. 

[fredtoast]

(09-24-2019, 03:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote:  And I think even the appearance of a quid pro quo to facilitate a form of nepotism by a vice president is a really bad look for a Democrat.

But that is just the crazy right wing spin spin on what happened.

Leaders all over the world were asking for the prosecutor to be removed because he was corrupt, and Biden agreed with them.  How would removing a corrupt prosecutor and replacing him with a more honest one protect Biden's son?  That argument makes no sense at all.  That is just FoxNews grasping at straws.

[GMDino]

Trump now says the transcript will be released...tomorrow.

It will mean nothing without also having the whistleblowers complaint.

Besides, other than his hard headed supporters around here who will actually believe what the transcript reads without hearing the call?  The man lies about lying for crying out loud.

[fredtoast]

(09-24-2019, 04:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have this weird feeling that this is a set up.  Maybe I'm giving Trump too much credit.

I have to agree.

Unless by "release" what he really means is what he did with the Meuller report.  

[jj22]

It'll be released. With nearly everything redacted.

We've seen this act before.

And yea Crazyj. I get your point after all Trump and his kids has done, Americans will probably hold Biden at a higher standard. All his son did was sit on a board tho, the conspiracy theory that he was somehow in trouble by the old government had long been debunked. It wasn't even about him, it was just the company he sat on the board for. Even if the old government brought that company down, it was never about Biden (the son) and he wasn't in any trouble to need to be protected by Dad over.

Trumps problem is he gets caught up in these conspiracy theories and it leads him down the wrong path.

[jj22]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-trump-repeats-criticism-of-biden-in-impromptu-u-n-appearance-11569254230

The problem is Ukraine is an ally unlike Russia, so they weren't going to play along.

Quote:“Ukrainian officials earlier this month expressed concern to U.S. senators that the aid had been held up as a penalty for resisting that pressure.”

[*bfine32*]

(09-20-2019, 09:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 8 times in one call. This is the kind of stuff that should alarm Republicans, but they're too worried canceling their primary. 

I'm playing catch up on this case; as I've dismissed it as nothing. But I've recently discovered the Republican led Senate unanimously approved further investigation of this issue. 

[6andcounting]

(09-24-2019, 06:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm playing catch up on this case; as I've dismissed it as nothing. But I've recently discovered the Republican led Senate unanimously approved further investigation of this issue. 

I know they voted unanimously on requesting Trump release the whistleblower report. I didn't think it went beyond that though.

[*bfine32*]

(09-24-2019, 07:00 PM)6andcounting Wrote: I know they voted unanimously on requesting Trump release the whistleblower report. I didn't think it went beyond that though.

Wouldn't that be further investigation of the case?

[6andcounting]

(09-24-2019, 07:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Wouldn't that be further investigation of the case?

If it's simply making a complaint against Trump  public - which is what my understanding of it is - then no. 

[Dill]

(09-24-2019, 03:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This is my hot take:
I think the likelihood that this will impact Joe Biden's candidacy for President is far greater than the likelihood that this will impact Donald Trump's candidacy for re-election.

The left, generally speaking, is far less tolerant of corruption or scandal than the right is. And I think even the appearance of a quid pro quo to facilitate a form of nepotism by a vice president is a really bad look for a Democrat. And if he wanted that prosecutor fired to protect his son from investigation, that will not be viewed favorably by the left.

That said, I am not sure anything will happen unless we get the actual details of either what Biden did or did not do to get his son that job (or if there was a significant conflict of interest that had an effect on the anti-corruption measures taken in Ukraine created by Hunter's presence in the area) or if the prosecutor even intended to investigate Hunter in any way. In addition, In order for Trump to suffer any repercussions, the details on what Trump did and did not say or promise or threaten in order to get someone to look into the Bidens or what was actually said during that phone call need to be released.

At the end of the day, I expect this to just fade away into the background just like every single other scandalous action by this president does. He'll say or do something else in the next few days and we'll talk about that for a week and the cycle will continue. When you never have time to stew in one scandal before the next arrives, it's hard for any one scandal to have any real impact, unfortunately...

So far, the Biden "scandal' is looking like Benghazi without a body count--i.e., nothing there. Even the IMF was demanding the firing of Shokin. Biden was just doing his job, publicly stating the US position on a public, international matter.  To be comparable to Trump's case, we would have to learn that Biden was secretly working behind the scenes to keep Shokin in office to help his son.

You are right that "the left" holds its representatives to a higher standard. But even if something implicates Biden in an impropriety, it won't matter much. The gaff machine will drop steadily in the polls before Warren and Bernie and "Boot," scandal or no.

However, I don't think this latest violation of Trump's presidential oath will fade into the background. We may think that previous scandals have, but all haven't. Trump's finances are still under investigation. Congress will eventually get his tax returns. The obstruction charges are still important to Congressional Dems. This new scandal is somewhat different than previous ones, in that it is simpler, less legally complex. But it is also of a piece with the others, flowing as it does from both disregard and ignorance of norms and laws applying to the presidency.

Also, repeated use of the same Cohn-style, ad hoc attack-defense has made Trump less believable to a growing fraction of his base. Rushing to construct a "Biden-did-the-exact-same-thing-and-did-it first" narrative, another mirror-image counter charge defended on a different premise each day, becomes dimly recognizable as "what Trump does"--a knee jerk tactic with the WH staff and Fox Friends all behind it at once, people who praise the appointment of "constitutional judges."

We may see renewed emphasis on previous mirror-image attack-defenses, e.g., more demands to get to the bottom of the Russia investigation, presented as Obama abusing his powers exactly as Trump is now. ("Subpoena Obama!" demands Graham.) But the effect will be more strident and desperate than effective.  My guess is Trump, under more and more pressure by the month and surrounded by people who cannot give him good advice without losing their jobs, will behave ever more erratically, with crazy tweets and contradictory pronouncements on policy--especially on weighty matters of state like China and Iran.

So to conclude, I would say this is costing Trump votes. And will continue to do so. It is now not clear at all that impeachment will hurt him more than he hurts himself. Remember this is not the last scandal.  Oil and consumer prices rising, war pending in the Gulf, more to come. . . .

[Belsnickel]

(09-24-2019, 07:18 PM)6andcounting Wrote: If it's simply making a complaint against Trump  public - which is what my understanding of it is - then no. 

So the Senate voted unanimously that the administration should follow the law? At least that's a step in the right direction.

[Belsnickel]

(09-24-2019, 04:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Either way it promises to be entertaining. Matt clued me in on some of the particulars; as this is one I haven't been following. But if Trump "forced" another sovereign nation to spy on one of our citizens then I can see what all the fuss is about. 

In all sincerity, even withholding the whistleblower's report from Congress is impeachable as it is a violation of the law in itself, and an act of obstruction of Congress as it interferes with their constitutional role of oversight.

[BmorePat87]

(09-24-2019, 08:32 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So the Senate voted unanimously that the administration should follow the law? At least that's a step in the right direction.

5 days later.

Then Mitch said this

Quote:“Speaker Pelosi’s much-publicized efforts to restrain her far-left conference have finally crumbled. House Democrats cannot help themselves. Instead of working together across party lines on legislation to help American families and strengthen our nation, they will descend even deeper into their obsession with relitigating 2016,”

Saying they won't work on legislation to help Americans is funny given the legislation he refuses to hold a vote on that already passed the House. 

[Belsnickel]

(09-24-2019, 09:27 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 5 days later.

Then Mitch said this

Saying they won't work on legislation to help Americans is funny given the legislation he refuses to hold a vote on that already passed the House. 

Especially since articles of impeachment are legislation that are aimed at bettering the country. McConnell is nothing but a partisan who has abandoned this country and his state in favor of power.

[BmorePat87]

(09-24-2019, 09:29 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Especially since articles of impeachment are legislation that are aimed at bettering the country. McConnell is nothing but a partisan who has abandoned this country and his state in favor of power.

Fortunately for him, he gets to set the guidelines of any Senate trial. He can put very strict limits on what evidence can be introduced, essentially gaming it for Trump if he chooses to. His conduct suggests he will absolutely put party over country.

This is one of the reasons why Pelosi has been hesitant. She must feel like there's enough here to make 19 Republicans agree that bribing other countries to help your campaign is something that needs to be stopped for the good of this country.