Why can't he stop insulting them

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 04:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No I did not.

I posted the entire quote that showed how you attempted to completely twist the meaning of the quote by taking it out of context.

At least you got one vote.

Actually Pat did a much better job. He too focus on only one comment (the same one), but he didn't immediately attack the messenger and then assume all 10 others were likewise taken out of content. 

What you participated in was a logical fallacy known as hasty generalization.

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 04:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I didn't expect you to agree. But most everyone dropped out prior to Super Tuesday and I'm sure the Obama association brought him some black votes. "If he's good enough for Obama, he's good enough for me"

It were the South Carolina results and many polls for the upcoming states that both showed big support for Biden, mainly stemming from the black eleectorate. That appears to be the main reason why many dropped out and rallied behind Biden. The support from blacks did play a major part in that and I wonder if you really can deny that Biden indeed got huge support from them in the primaries.

(10-09-2020, 04:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sorry to have confused you. There are blacks, not all (unlike Biden I realize there is diversity in the race), that would be better served voting for conservative measures as opposed to liberal' but cut off their nose to spite their face. 

So just to be clear, you claim that of the roughly 80-85% blacks that support Biden over Trump, most of them (not all, you acknowledge diversity) are "cutting off the nose to spite the face".
If Biden had said something like that that can easily be seen as calling a majority of black people too gullible to vote for their own best interest, it probably would have made your Biden insults list.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 04:26 PM)hollodero Wrote: So just to be clear, you claim that of the roughly 80-85% blacks that support Biden over Trump, most of them (not all, you acknowledge diversity) are "cutting off the nose to spite the face".
If Biden had said something like that that can easily be seen as calling a majority of black people too gullible to vote for their own best interest, it probably would have made your Biden insults list.

Exhibit one of why I won't discuss it here. Actually exhibit 2; Dino's meme was 1.

It is not because they are gullible. That's your word. 

I I don't think all 80-85% of black voters vote democratic for one reason. That's a Biden thing.

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exhibit one of why I won't discuss it here. Actually exhibit 2; Dino's meme was 1.

It is not because they are gullible. That's your word. 

It is my word. It just seemed to be what you are saying, and I asked if that is the correct take. 
I gave you the opportunity to argue that was not what you meant when saying they "cut off the nose to spite the face". Feel free to explain what meaning that phrase actually had that is not akin to the term "gullible". For I feel this is what this phrase means.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 04:34 PM)hollodero Wrote: It is my word. It just seemed to be what you are saying, and I asked if that is the correct take. 
I gave you the opportunity to argue that was not what you meant when saying they "cut off the nose to spite the face". Feel free to explain what meaning that phrase actually had that is not akin to the term "gullible". For I feel this is what this phrase means.

To 'cut off your nose to spite your face' is to disadvantage yourself in order to do harm to an adversary.

Do you not understand I'm only pointing to a portion of the black Democratic vote in this instance?

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 04:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To 'cut off your nose to spite your face' is to disadvantage yourself in order to do harm to an adversary.

Do you not understand I'm only pointing to a portion of the black Democratic vote in this instance?

I explicitly mentioned you saying "not all". Thought it was safe to assume you meant "many" though. Are you claiming you rather meant just a minority of black voters?

Also, if you disadvantage yourself to harm a percieved adversary, imho you clearly act gullible. What other term would you use for that behaviour? Stupid?

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 04:46 PM)hollodero Wrote: I explicitly mentioned you saying "not all". Thought it was safe to assume you meant "many" though. Are you claiming you rather meant just a minority of black voters?

Also, if you disadvantage yourself to harm a percieved adversary, imho you clearly act gullible. What other term would you use for that behaviour? Stupid?

Most likely a minority. I've been told blacks are generally poor and disadvantaged. They most likely depend on government subsidies.

I have the time but not the inclination to continue this "I'm confused game with you. 

[Mickeypoo]

(10-09-2020, 04:46 PM)hollodero Wrote: I explicitly mentioned you saying "not all". Thought it was safe to assume you meant "many" though. Are you claiming you rather meant just a minority of black voters?

Also, if you disadvantage yourself to harm a percieved adversary, imho you clearly act gullible. What other term would you use for that behaviour? Stupid?

Two other possibilities I can think of are Spiteful or hateful maybe?

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 04:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Most likely a minority. I've been told blacks are generally poor and disadvantaged. They most likely depend on government subsidies.

I have the time but not the inclination to continue this "I'm confused game with you. 

I'm not playing games. I only now got clarification that when you talked about blacks voting against their own best interest, you actually were talking about only a minority of black voters, apparently those that are not poor or disadvantaged. Which... well. I keep my thoughts on that to myself.

(10-09-2020, 04:52 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Two other possibilities I can think of are Spiteful or hateful maybe?

What do you mean? Is the jist of your reply that many black voters prefer Biden over Trump because of spite and hate?

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 04:52 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Two other possibilities I can think of are Spiteful or hateful maybe?

Neither of those and I should not have been so aloof in my "reason". 

Can folks start to get an idea if I said: "Not everyone likes to be called Uncle Tom"

(10-09-2020, 05:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'm not playing games. I only now got clarification that when you talked about blacks voting against their own best interest, you actually were talking about only a minority of black voters, apparently those that are not poor or disadvantaged. Which... well. I keep my thoughts on that to myself.

Again I should not have been so aloof, but yeah, they way you twisted that point: it's probably best you keep it to yourself. 

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 05:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Again I should not have been so aloof, but yeah, they way you twisted that point: it's probably best you keep it to yourself. 

Feel free to clarify. As of now, it is indeed hard to follow, eg. when you explain the black support for Biden with things like "cutting off noses to spite the face", then claim this is merely a minority (not much of a general explanation then), then in the next sentence mention blacks generally being poor and disadvantaged and depending on subsidies, or that you "were told that". This is all not really a clear stance and I really have a hard time what to make out of that.

Generally, and to the OP, this is a stance I usually take towards overly sensitive left leaning types that cry foul on someone else's behalf frequently, but I feel it also applies here: In most instances, you can't be more offended by something than the group that allegedly actually was offended.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-09-2020, 05:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'm not playing games. I only now got clarification that when you talked about blacks voting against their own best interest, you actually were talking about only a minority of black voters, apparently those that are not poor or disadvantaged. Which... well. I keep my thoughts on that to myself.



What do you mean? Is the jist of your reply that many black voters prefer Biden over Trump because of spite and hate?

Yes, I was just coming up with words that could represent why someone would disadvantage themselves to hurt someone else.

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 06:16 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Yes, I was just coming up with words that could represent why someone would disadvantage themselves to hurt someone else.

I get why in theory someone might behave that way, sure. Spite and hate, for example. But do you think that is what is actually responsible for black voters supporting Biden?

[BmorePat87]

One of the things I criticized some of my White progressive friends for was dismissing Black folk as a voting bloc, suggesting said White progressives knew better than Black voters how they should vote, and criticizing strong Black support for Joe Biden.

Joe Biden is the nominee because of Black voters. The White folk here regardless of ideology should stop trying to think for Black voters, especially if you haven't had their best interest at heart in the past.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-09-2020, 07:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: One of the things I criticized some of my White progressive friends for was dismissing Black folk as a voting bloc, suggesting said White progressives knew better than Black voters how they should vote, and criticizing strong Black support for Joe Biden.

Joe Biden is the nominee because of Black voters. The White folk here regardless of ideology should stop trying to think for Black voters, especially if you haven't had their best interest at heart in the past.

Hmm, I think that's just a Democrat sales pitch.  Joe is the same guy that didn't want his kids going to school in a "racial jungle", and the same guy that loved and was mentored by segragationist Senators.  

Where was all of his "equality" values, before he became senile and did whatever the party up and comers told him to?

[BmorePat87]

(10-09-2020, 09:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, I think that's just a Democrat sales pitch.  Joe is the same guy that didn't want his kids going to school in a "racial jungle", and the same guy that loved and was mentored by segragationist Senators.  

Where was all of his "equality" values, before he became senile and did whatever the party up and comers told him to?

South Carolina's electorate was 56% Black and Biden won 61% of that voting bloc. South Carolina saved his campaign after finishing 4th in Iowa, 5th in New Hampshire, and 2nd in Nevada. He banked on South Carolina and had a blowout. 

The next week he went on a tear on Super Tuesday propelled by Black support in states like Texas, Virginia, Alabama, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas, pushing him past Bernie Sanders. 

Word of advice. Throwing out the "senile" bit, especially after he soundly beat Trump in the debate, isn't a substitute for having a clue. Knowledge is free, you just have to make the effort to find it. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 06:33 PM)hollodero Wrote: I get why in theory someone might behave that way, sure. Spite and hate, for example. But do you think that is what is actually responsible for black voters supporting Biden?

I wish you would quit being so disingenuous and state the reason I provided is why "black voters support Biden".

I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier, but now I see you consider black voters to be a singular thing.

I've given a number of reason why I feel blacks support Biden. Yours and Mikey's words such as gullible, stupid, hateful, spiteful are not among the.

I've clearly stated that the dynamic you keep harping on is most likely in the minority, but you continue to assert I'm suggesting it's the reason. 

 

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 07:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: One of the things I criticized some of my White progressive friends for was dismissing Black folk as a voting bloc, suggesting said White progressives knew better than Black voters how they should vote, and criticizing strong Black support for Joe Biden.

Joe Biden is the nominee because of Black voters. The White folk here regardless of ideology should stop trying to think for Black voters, especially if you haven't had their best interest at heart in the past.

OMG, this is among the most self-righteous posts I've seen in this forum...Did you have any assertions as to why the black vote didn't/wouldn't go Mayor Pete's way? 

[SunsetBengal]

(10-09-2020, 10:33 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: South Carolina's electorate was 56% Black and Biden won 61% of that voting bloc. South Carolina saved his campaign after finishing 4th in Iowa, 5th in New Hampshire, and 2nd in Nevada. He banked on South Carolina and had a blowout. 

The next week he went on a tear on Super Tuesday propelled by Black support in states like Texas, Virginia, Alabama, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas, pushing him past Bernie Sanders. 

Word of advice. Throwing out the "senile" bit, especially after he soundly beat Trump in the debate, isn't a substitute for having a clue. Knowledge is free, you just have to make the effort to find it. 

To first bolded, South Carolina is a heavy Republican leaning State to begin with..

To next bolded, only after "the party" quietly announced that was who they wanted, and all the others stood down..

Last bolded, memorizing some lines while pumped up on amphetamines does not make him a sound person.  Hell, the guy didn't honestly answer any question on his position, when directly asked.  All he did was recite crap that he memorized to regurgitate.

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 11:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wish you would quit being so disingenuous and state the reason I provided is why "black voters support Biden".

I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier, but now I see you consider black voters to be a singular thing.

I've given a number of reason why I feel blacks support Biden. Yours and Mikey's words such as gullible, stupid, hateful, spiteful are not among the.

I've clearly stated that the dynamic you keep harping on is most likely in the minority, but you continue to assert I'm suggesting it's the reason. 

 

It's the reason you gave me when I asked for the reason, so there's that. 

If you now claim the reason you gave only applies (thosed that ungullibly cut off their noses to spite the face) to a minority, what about all the others? The support is quite overwhelming, in primaries and now against Trump. Now I believe it is in great part because yeah, a big majority of these black voters (never said anything like "they are a singular thing") don't find Biden's comments all that severely insulting as you make them out to be, or perceive him as overall being so overtly racist as you believe he is. I made no secret about that stance and nothing about that is disingenuous. You are/were free to give me alternative explanations as to why so many black voters support a guy in spite of his insulting nature.