Why can't he stop insulting them

[*jason*]

(10-08-2020, 11:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: These comments will also be helpful 

Bfine is good at many things, but he excels at building suspense.

Spill it!

[*PhilHos*]

(10-08-2020, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is kind of embarrassing that I have to say this to an adult, but.  .  .  

The word "not" before something means "negative" or "opposite"

Not "open" means "closed"

Not "big" means "small"

Not "same" means "different"

So in order for not "so different" to mean "different" you have to argue that "so different" means "same".

Basic English. The principle of negation.

Again, "not so different" does NOT mean "exactly the same". Why you keep trying to argue this, I don't know? Oh wait, yes, I do. You need to twist Trumps words, because it's not enough to use the stupid shit he DOES say, you have to make up shit too.

(10-08-2020, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Anyone with a third grade education will tell you that "not so different" is a comment on "sameness" instead of "difference".

Trump was talking about how much alike they were.  He was doing that to include himself in their good gene pool.

Yes, it's a comment on sameness, but it still doesn't mean EXACTLY the same. He's saying he comes from a similar gene pool but not from the same gene pool.

(10-08-2020, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you still deny this I am not going to waste my time arguing over basic english.

Why not? I've been arguing with someone that thinks telling a crowd they look good somehow means he's promoting white supremacy. 

[GMDino]

(10-08-2020, 11:27 PM)jason Wrote: Bfine is good at many things, but he excels at building suspense.

Spill it!

I was busy editing a podcast last night...did I miss the grand explanation that we probably already knew?

Maybe he got busy.

Maybe, like Trump, we'll have it in a couple weeks.  Or after the election?  

[*bfine32*]

As I’m more of a “light a candle instead of curse the darkness” type dude; allow me to explain the question posed in the OP:

He continues to insult because no one, especially main stream media, holds him accountable. We’ve seen numerous examples of this throughout the thread. Enablers have used techniques such as Ad hominem, false dichotomy, Tu Quogue (Fred basically took over the thread with this one), and Argumentum ad misericordiam

Those he insults who continue to support him do so because of one of two reasons:
1. Those supporters will be led to believe he is the better option as enablers will try to mitigate his comments by bringing up his opponent. This is known as a Red Herring (Charlottesville anyone?)

2. Those supporters realize Biden participates frequently in the soft bigotry of low expectations. But they also realize he will support platforms that will advantage them. (Much like the Evangelical do Trump)

I will say kudos to those that simply stated Biden's comments are not acceptable.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-09-2020, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I’m more of a “light a candle instead of curse the darkness” type dude; allow me to explain the question posed in the OP:

He continues to insult because no one, especially main stream media, holds him accountable. We’ve seen numerous examples of this throughout the thread. Enablers have used techniques such as Ad hominem, false dichotomy, Tu Quogue (Fred basically took over the thread with this one), and Argumentum ad misericordiam

Those he insults who continue to support him do so because of one of two reasons:
1. Those supporters will be led to believe he is the better option as enablers will try to mitigate his comments by bringing up his opponent. This is known as a Red Herring (Charlottesville anyone?)

2. Those supporters realize Biden participates frequently in the soft bigotry of low expectations. But they also realize he will support platforms that will advantage them. (Much like the Evangelical do Trump)

I will say kudos to those that simply stated Biden's comments are not acceptable.

If I called him a racist repeatedly would that make him stop?

[fredtoast]

(10-09-2020, 10:14 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Again, "not so different" does NOT mean "exactly the same". Why you keep trying to argue this, I don't know? Oh wait, yes, I do. You need to twist Trumps words, because it's not enough to use the stupid shit he DOES say, you have to make up shit too.


Yes, it's a comment on sameness, but it still doesn't mean EXACTLY the same. He's saying he comes from a similar gene pool but not from the same gene pool.


Why not? I've been arguing with someone that thinks telling a crowd they look good somehow means he's promoting white supremacy. 

It does not have to mean "EXACTLY THE SAME". And I never had to argue that it meant "exactly the same". Just plain old "SAME" is enough to include him in the same gene pool.

"You have good genes and we are the same, not different"

Get it now?

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I will say kudos to those that simply stated Biden's comments are not acceptable.

Not so keen on any kudos, but I missed to concede that some of these comments, especially the older ones, are indeed hard to accept. Eg. The 1977 one is horrible and I did not know about that one.

Some others I consider a big bunch of nothing though. Like the one where he pointed out that many black women can not afford to stay home. That's just the truth. Also, that "hispanics" are a less homogenuous group, something every political commentator concedes, albeit often in slightly less clumsy terms. "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black?" Well, he should definitely not have said that. It also was not a racist scandal. And what's the actual issue with him saying the death of Floyd was more impactful than the assassination of MLK? I don't know if it's true, but I fail to see the scandal here.

I still want to know more exactly why you think the overwhelming majority of black people vote for him and support him. Not just against Trump. But also in the primaries. Why also in the primaries? It's almost as if he had made amends for past mistakes and they do not consider him a racist.

[fredtoast]

(10-09-2020, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He continues to insult because no one, especially main stream media, holds him accountable.

Every single one of these incidents you list have been reported by the media.  

So WTF are you talking about?

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 03:05 PM)hollodero Wrote: Not so keen on any kudos, but I missed to concede that some of these comments, especially the older ones, are indeed hard to accept. Eg. The 1977 one is horrible and I did not know about that one.

Some others I consider a big bunch of nothing though. Like the one where he pointed out that many black women can not afford to stay home. That's just the truth. Also, that "hispanics" are a less homogenuous group, something every political commentator concedes, albeit often in slightly less clumsy terms. "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black?" Well, he should definitely not have said that. It also was not a racist scandal. And what's the actual issue with him saying the death of Floyd was more impactful than the assassination of MLK? I don't know if it's true, but I fail to see the scandal here.

I still want to know more exactly why you think the overwhelming majority of black people vote for him and support him. Not just against Trump. But also in the primaries. Why also in the primaries? It's almost as if he had made amends for past mistakes and they do not consider him a racist.

Oh no worry on the kudos

He won the primaries because that's who the DNC wanted; same reason Hills won in 16. Bernie was leading until Super Tuesday when every other candidate but he and Bernie conceded and all got in line and threw their support to Joe.

As to the why the black vote. I answered it:

Quote:1. Those supporters will be led to believe he is the better option as enablers will try to mitigate his comments by bringing up his opponent. This is known as a Red Herring (Charlottesville anyone?)


2. Those supporters realize Biden participates frequently in the soft bigotry of low expectations. But they also realize he will support platforms that will advantage them. (Much like the Evangelical do Trump)

The latter is probably a greater percentage than the former.

Now I could go deeper into a 3rd reason as to why I feel  Blacks vote against conservatives even when those policies favor them. But that ain't happening in this forum.

[fredtoast]

(10-09-2020, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  (Fred basically took over the thread with this one),

I think you forgot that I first took it over by pointing out that you were completely changing the meaning of a Biden quote by taking it out of context.

[hollodero]

(10-09-2020, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He won the primaries because that's who the DNC wanted; same reason Hills won in 16. Bernie was leading until Super Tuesday when every other candidate but he and Bernie conceded and all got in line and threw their support to Joe.

I don't agree with that take. It distincly were the states with a big black electorate that brought Biden back out of oblivion. That had nothing to do with the DNC and everything to do with the overwhelming support Biden got from black voters. The conceding happened after that.

(10-09-2020, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the why the black vote. I answered it:

Yeah but you referenced to Trump, at least with one of your two points. And the second point, imho, could have been made about almost every other Dem primary candidate.

(10-09-2020, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Now I could go deeper into a 3rd reason as to why I feel  Blacks vote against conservatives even when those policies favor them. But that ain't happening in this forum.

??? Wasn't one of your points that blacks "realize Biden will support platforms that will advantage them"?
And now you claim actually conservative policies would favor them?

What is it now?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-09-2020, 03:31 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't agree with that take. It distincly were the states with a big black electorate that brought Biden back out of oblivion. That had nothing to do with the DNC and everything to do with the overwhelming support Biden got from black voters. The conceding happened after that.



Yeah but you referenced to Trump, at least with one of your two points. And the second point, imho, could have been made about almost every other Dem primary candidate.



??? Wasn't one of your points that blacks "realize Biden will support platforms that will advantage them"?
And now you claim actually conservative policies would favor them?

What is it now?

You’ve entered the bfine paradox wrapped in an enigma inside a riddle embedded in a mystery.

[Dill]

(10-09-2020, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I’m more of a “light a candle instead of curse the darkness” type dude; allow me to explain the question posed in the OP:

He continues to insult because no one, especially main stream media, holds him accountable. We’ve seen numerous examples of this throughout the thread. Enablers have used techniques such as Ad hominem, false dichotomy, Tu Quogue (Fred basically took over the thread with this one), and Argumentum ad misericordiam.

Um, you've claimed people are guilty of fallacies, but I don't recall seeing any demonstrated. I'll go back and check. 

What does "holding him accountable" look like? Does it look like this? 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/09/trump-slams-biden-for-saying-poor-kids-are-as-talented-as-white-kids.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-risks-alienating-young-black-voters-after-race-remarks/2020/08/08/2035b296-d937-11ea-a788-2ce86ce81129_story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/politics/joe-biden-barack-obama-south-carolina.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/politics/joe-biden-black-breakfast-club.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/joe-bidens-thinking-muddled-by-racist-concepts-ohio-republican-claims
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/22/861007175/biden-pulls-back-on-cavalier-remarks-about-black-voters
https://news.yahoo.com/video/biden-long-history-racist-remarks-225005936.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEIE_9P2NbELY7g8PVnGDX6UjENolQDD-kMxSWVfjg16nmM3Go42znCrJigMbfSRZiLgRaMCye5PfJxJu-I-2nRzPaLqg1J2KSqZZXmbuA0RY91oaGe23jVnPrOx-L8kRmOcdVf99nlp_pw4VB89Vrps5gH1Itv2SQH8QaacqoMe
https://www.foxnews.com/media/mark-levin-biden-bigoted-racist
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-top-news-race-and-ethnicity-politics-joe-biden-6cbd8c13529fee67c42e417175c425e5
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/08/10/opinion/how-many-insults-are-black-voters-supposed-take-joe-biden/
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1344422/joe-biden-news-eulogy-kkk-recruiter-donald-trump-racism-us-election-spt
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2020/05/27/joe-biden-racist-pennsylvania-primary/
https://www.leftvoice.org/joe-biden-is-a-racist-who-loves-police-brutality
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/trump-campaign-statement-on-bidens-offensive-racial-history/

Or is something else supposed to happen beyond reporting and editorializing? 

(10-09-2020, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Those he insults who continue to support him do so because of one of two reasons:
1. Those supporters will be led to believe he is the better option as enablers will try to mitigate his comments by bringing up his opponent. This is known as a Red Herring (Charlottesville anyone?)

2. Those supporters realize Biden participates frequently in the soft bigotry of low expectations. But they also realize he will support platforms that will advantage them. (Much like the Evangelical do Trump)

I will say kudos to those that simply stated Biden's comments are not acceptable.

To make #1 stick, you really need to show why Biden is NOT the better option for "those he insults" than the guy who retweets from white supremacist sources. And in an election between two people, OF COURSE his "enablers will bring up his opponent." When comparing two candidates, it is not a "red herring" to note the other guy has sympathies with groups that mean you harm. Nor Whattaboutism.

Pretty sure "those he insults" are looking at where each candidate stands on current racial issues, and which will be more susceptible to influence/pressure from them--and which least.
 
2. We agree on. They don't think the other guy will "support platforms that will advantage them."  Evangelicals are a good analogy; Trump gave them greater access than any president before him.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 03:31 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't agree with that take. It distincly were the states with a big black electorate that brought Biden back out of oblivion. That had nothing to do with the DNC and everything to do with the overwhelming support Biden got from black voters. The conceding happened after that.


Yeah but you referenced to Trump, at least with one of your two points. And the second point, imho, could have been made about almost every other Dem primary candidate.



??? Wasn't one of your points that blacks "realize Biden will support platforms that will advantage them"?
And now you claim actually conservative policies would favor them?

What is it now?

I didn't expect you to agree. But most everyone dropped out prior to Super Tuesday and I'm sure the Obama association brought him some black votes. "If he's good enough for Obama, he's good enough for me"

Sorry to have confused you. There are blacks, not all (unlike Biden I realize there is diversity in the race), that would be better served voting for conservative measures as opposed to liberal' but cut off their nose to spite their face. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 03:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think you forgot that I first took it over by pointing out that you were completely changing the meaning of a Biden quote by taking it out of context.

No, you demonstrated Faulty Classification to try to prove a point. Remember you started with "I assume the rest". Do you really expect anyone reading to believe you didn't know the content of many/most. You dismissed 10 instances to focus on one that you could combat. And did a shitty job disputing the one. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 03:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Every single one of these incidents you list have been reported by the media.  

So WTF are you talking about?

How do you know? You claimed to have only known the context of one. Were you being "less than honest"

[GMDino]

(10-09-2020, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Now I could go deeper into a 3rd reason as to why I feel  Blacks vote against conservatives even when those policies favor them. But that ain't happening in this forum.

                                                                                        

                                                                                       

[fredtoast]

(10-09-2020, 04:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How do you know? You claimed to have only known the context of one. Were you being "less than honest"

Sig bet that I can show all of them were reported in the media.

Take it or STFU.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2020, 04:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sig bet that I can show all of them were reported in the media.

Take it or STFU.

So you knew the context of each or just know they were reported? You we're being less than forthright where you?

Of course they were reported, do you think I keep a personal journal?

Being reported does not equal being held accountable. believe it or not, folks will try to excuse them

[fredtoast]

(10-09-2020, 04:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  And did a shitty job disputing the one. 

No I did not.

I posted the entire quote that showed how you attempted to completely twist the meaning of the quote by taking it out of context.