Why does coaching get a pass?

[Soonerpeace]

(02-01-2023, 01:02 PM)Anarumo_Savant Wrote: I don't think a "conservative play caller" would go for it on 4th & 6

And that’s a good point he’s not on fourth down you are right yet he’s super tied to the analytics there. But he’s become more the norm there similar to Doug Pederson and the Chargers coach.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-30-2023, 01:20 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: I’m afraid that the story of this team looking back years from now will be a talented group of players overcoming inexperienced coaching to win a ton of games but it will never be enough against other good teams with good coaches.  

Last offensive play of Super Bowl…do we double Donald?  Or provide any help whatsoever?  Now Adeniji on an island vs Jones.   Taylor and company just don’t have what it takes to make the right call at the right moment.  
Terrible situational play calling.

Lol sure.  I guess Reid and KC weren't good teams and coaches the last 3 times we played them.  Sure as hell haven't beaten anyone good this year or last year.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-01-2023, 01:40 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Lol sure.  I guess Reid and KC weren't good teams and coaches the last 3 times we played them.  Sure as hell haven't beaten anyone good this year or last year.

I mean really. The thought processes around here. Bill Parcells or Stonyhands? Parcells said Lou and Zac were the best combo coaches in the entire NFL. Not one of THE BEST. THE BEST. What does he know ?. The Bengals history has done the fandom a number. They need serious therapy.

[*bfine32*]

(02-01-2023, 01:00 PM)Anarumo_Savant Wrote: Zac will be here for a long time.

He's a good coach.

If NFL teams thought that Zac was terrible, why are they interviewing his offensive assistants? 

Because they know his coordinators are "carrying" him. How good is an OC/DC that can get a team to succeed while being so hamstrung with a HC that should have been fired after we lost out 1st game 3 years ago?

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-30-2023, 01:26 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I think it is comical that message board posters think they have any idea what the game plan is or what actual call is made.  Joe has the authority to make any change he wants and to hit any route he wants.  It is impossible for us to know what the original call was or which is receiver was the initial priority target.

I agree it is tough to question play calling. I didn't like the two deep throws following the 7 yd first down throw. But one hit chase in the helmet and the other was just a good play by the safety to tip it away. 

But while they're were many things that led to the loss I believe coaching was one of them. The use of timeouts at the end of the half and the end of the game were not good. They hurt our chance to score a touchdown and force overtime. I also think not helping out our tackles was bad and one we've seen earlier in the year that hurt us. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-30-2023, 01:50 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: In fairness, I did. I have long been on record that Taylor is a bad playcaller and is largely carried by out-talenting opponents. I even posted multiple times that the offense has been unable to put together whole games during that winstreak and their results are nowhere near what they should be when you have a top-2 QB and best WR trio in the league. Took heat for it when things were going well, too, but stuck with my belief that he needs to stick to being HC only and give the playcalling to a real OC.

This is how I'm feeling. I like Zac plays and think if we brought in an OC he should work with him on the offense. I just really think Zac struggles in situational football. We need some one who can manage the time at the end of the half and games better. Someone who can read the flow of the game. Someone who can come up with better 4th and short plays better. How many times this year were we all left scratching our heads on a 4th and short that we ran an odd play that got blown up. Not to mention how many of those said plays were in field goal range that 3 pts would've had a huge impact. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-01-2023, 12:58 PM)Anarumo_Savant Wrote: Do you also think throwing deep to Chase on 4th & 6 was a boneheaded playcall?

No. I think we had to go for it and we were really struggling. I give props to Zac for reading the game that way and taking the shot. But having said that I think that's a play that gets bailed out by the talent. Burrow makes an accurate throw and Chase just goes up and gets it ( add in bad defense by the 2 defenders right there). I also think it makes the end of the game even more frustrating. Taylor's knows we're struggling and has to put it all on the line to pick up a 4th and 6. But then at the end of the game deep in our own territory he's gonna take a timeout after a 2yd gain. If one of two things are happening there I am fine with a time out.
A. We just picked up a first down.
B. We had been moving the ball at ease the last few drives.
Neither of those things were or had happened. Calling the timeout was a terrible decision and one I called out in the GameDay thread when it happened. 

I think people are getting confused. I don't think anyone is saying fire anyone. All I'm hearing if anything is we need to bring in a new playcaller. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2023, 01:13 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Going into this game we know our offensive line is a possible liability.   What did they do differently to game plan for this?   After all this time we still cannot successfully run outside or a RB screen.  

We are consistently pushing the ball downfield in short yardage situations.   Play call designs aren’t very good as we are consistently relying on amazing throws and catches to keep drives alive.   Very rarely do we have a guy catching footballs in space.  

Our second to last possession was huge.   2nd and 3rd we go back to back downfield throws.  A smart coach gets the 1st down and bleeds the clock.  Game on the line the last drive and we leave Adeniji on an island against one of the NFL’s best pass rushers.  

Defensive side….playing an immobile Mahomes we sat back in soft zone and they just hit five yard passes all game.   Reid played for 1st downs.   No pressure packages to speak of and linebackers defending open space with no awareness of receivers around them.   Kelce left open and singled 3/4 of the game.  

Ossai’s penalty was frustrating…the officiating was frustrating.   But, our coaches were just terrible at situational football.  Why do they always get a pass?

I don't give them a pass.

Two years in a row, they allowed the other team's best players on O and D to beat them. Kupp and Donald last year and Mahomes and Jones this year. But what can you do? Hope they eventually formulate a plan to take the best players out? Sure but with a better Oline, i see a different outcome for this past game. 

It seems they had a couple plans coming in on defense. Try to keep Mahomes in the pocket and not chance big plays off of blitzes. That worked for them the past 3 games but i would have done different this time, with his ankle being questionable. If you noticed, they didn't start bringing any kind of pressure until after the first pick at the end of the first half which gave the Chiefs a chance to increase their lead. It was like they had a plan B and they needed to impliment it a bit earlier than they hoped (purely speculation). 

KC seemed to be able to take Chase out of the game late and i saw the Bengals constantly lining him up wide, on the line of scrimmage instead of moving him around or coming up with something that would give them a bit of an advantage. They just kept lining up and running plays, like they were earlier this year but the line they had simply wouldn't allow them time to go through their progressions and find someone open. 

It certainly felt like they got a case of the anal cramps the last 9 minutes or so on offense. Burrow can do a lot but he can't block, pass and then make sure the receivers are running routes to get them open. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2023, 01:20 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: I’m afraid that the story of this team looking back years from now will be a talented group of players overcoming inexperienced coaching to win a ton of games but it will never be enough against other good teams with good coaches.  

Last offensive play of Super Bowl…do we double Donald?  Or provide any help whatsoever?  Now Adeniji on an island vs Jones.   Taylor and company just don’t have what it takes to make the right call at the right moment.  
Terrible situational play calling.

Terrible job of keeping Adeniji in the starting lineup too. Two years in a row he proves that he can't anchor anywhere and his footwork and strength is really bad against simply above average players. 

He gave up 4 sacks and 15 total pressure this year in the playoffs and 6 sacks and 14 pressures last year. 

Seven games, 10 sacks, 29 pressures. 

That's a recipe for the unemployment line. I put that squarely on Zac and Zac alone.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2023, 01:50 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: In fairness, I did. I have long been on record that Taylor is a bad playcaller and is largely carried by out-talenting opponents. I even posted multiple times that the offense has been unable to put together whole games during that winstreak and their results are nowhere near what they should be when you have a top-2 QB and best WR trio in the league. Took heat for it when things were going well, too, but stuck with my belief that he needs to stick to being HC only and give the playcalling to a real OC.

I think that's a narrative that is past it's prime...mostly. 

He's been credited and it's been shown where some things he does is innovative and productive. The problem i have with him is that he needs to take the next step and learn how to not let the other team's best players beat you in the most important games. 

Third time's the charm?

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2023, 02:02 AM)Synric Wrote: Setting protections isn't protecting. Just because they identified Chris Jones doesnr mean they blocked him.. which was a big issue early.

Exactly. They made adjustments, hell, they pointed them out on TV. They just really failed in allowing Jones a free rush on a 1V1 vs Adeniji, who shouldn't be in the starting lineup. 

[Anarumo_Savant]

(02-01-2023, 09:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Because they know his coordinators are "carrying" him. How good is an OC/DC that can get a team to succeed while being so hamstrung with a HC that should have been fired after we lost out 1st game 3 years ago?

Except Taylor calls the plays so the OC doesn't have that big of an impact

[WeezyBengal]

I was dissapointed in the playcalling this game.

This game was begging for more RB and WR screens. The Chiefs are one of the worst teams in the league defending pass catching RBs out of the backfield.

Couple that fact with the fact that our OL was absymal and it really was a missed opportunity.

I also think this offense could have been more up temp this game - no huddle. That would have worn the opposing DL down and neuteralized them a bit.

IDK - we all knew the OL was going to be a liability against the Chiefs this game and there wasn't much schemeing done around it other than "get the ball out quickly".

[WeezyBengal]

(01-30-2023, 04:00 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Offensive gameplan wasn't good.

On defense, the pass rush looked slow.

How many times did they do a delayed lb blitz? They basically burned a guy.

The tackling was bad too. Pratt whiffed on a big one. Wilson didn't look good either.

I think the DL was worn down a bit this game. Not having that Larry Ogunjobi to rotate in really killed this team in the playoffs. They need to go out and find another rotational piece for the middle fo the line. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-02-2023, 12:44 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think that's a narrative that is past it's prime...mostly. 

He's been credited and it's been shown where some things he does is innovative and productive. The problem i have with him is that he needs to take the next step and learn how to not let the other team's best players beat you in the most important games. 

Third time's the charm?

I agree that some of his concepts work and our good. That's why I think if we brought in an OC we should have Taylor work with him and really just add to the offense. I think Taylor not only struggles to plan for the best defenders he struggles with situational football. I get how close we've been people think we just need to tweak a couple of things. But the defense is probably gonna take a hit and the offense will need to be even better. I'm just not seeing the kind of learning from Taylor that I would hope for.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-30-2023, 01:26 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I think it is comical that message board posters think they have any idea what the game plan is or what actual call is made.  Joe has the authority to make any change he wants and to hit any route he wants.  It is impossible for us to know what the original call was or which is receiver was the initial priority target.

Yep

On a scale of 1-10 as far as knowledge of us message board posters as to what's "really" going on play call wise we're at best maybe like a 2. There's just so much going into it. And, like you say who knows if Joe didn't see what he thought was a favorable coverage and change the play at the LOS?

[BigPapaKain]

Me, reading this ridiculous thread.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-02-2023, 12:44 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think that's a narrative that is past it's prime...mostly. 

He's been credited and it's been shown where some things he does is innovative and productive. The problem i have with him is that he needs to take the next step and learn how to not let the other team's best players beat you in the most important games. 

Third time's the charm?

Yup. AFCCG aside, look at our first couple of series in most of our games ... especially when we get the kickoff. The first fifteen plays are scripted, correct? We tend to come out of the gate quickly (this past season). From there on, there is a lot of audibles, etc that make it hard to tell what the actual call is. When I look at us march straight down the field in Buffalo on the road in the snow during the scripted portion of the game, I have a hard time saying the playcalling sucks.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-02-2023, 11:47 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Yup. AFCCG aside, look at our first couple of series in most of our games ... especially when we get the kickoff. The first fifteen plays are scripted, correct? We tend to come out of the gate quickly (this past season). From there on, there is a lot of audibles, etc that make it hard to tell what the actual call is. When I look at us march straight down the field in Buffalo on the road in the snow during the scripted portion of the game, I have a hard time saying the playcalling sucks.

Last year and the year before we struggled in the first half. Board mantra Zac can’t scheme. This year Zac is a good OC when he can script but his adjustments are lacking. Our OL & DL dominated the Bills we are great. KC won because they dominated in the trenches we suck. Comedy Central

[Soonerpeace]

(02-02-2023, 10:39 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I agree that some of his concepts work and our good. That's why I think if we brought in an OC we should have Taylor work with him and really just add to the offense. I think Taylor not only struggles to plan for the best defenders he struggles with situational football. I get how close we've been people think we just need to tweak a couple of things. But the defense is probably gonna take a hit and the offense will need to be even better. I'm just not seeing the kind of learning from Taylor that I would hope for.

I guess we are all outsiders as it’s obvious from recent comments by Joe HE does have complete confidence in Zac and the comments weren’t prompted at all.