Will We Improve The Line This Offseason?

[BFritz21]

(10-02-2023, 06:51 PM)Destro Wrote: We won't improve it, but will say we did things to improve it, like every year.

I don't care if Burrow is a statue, the O-line is clearly still bad. Yes, Burrow is playing super poorly, but two things can be bad at once. Even three!!! ( looking at you , Tee Higgins ).

Let's hope that we fire Pollack and can finally see some improvement. 

Maybe he has, but I wish he'd at least change up the scheme or something.

(10-02-2023, 07:18 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Let’s give the offensive line some props for at least run blocking better this season. Joe Mixon has had some success.  This makes me wonder why Zac doesn’t call more run plays.

Yeah, but I also think Mixon is running harder and not tip-toeing as much.

I do wish we'd run it more to help the pass blocking so they can't just tee-off on the pass rush.

[Bronxbengal]

(10-02-2023, 03:58 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: These players were much better before Pollack.

It's Pollack. Even Big Fat Pauly didn't have talented O linemen dropping off like this.

Everyone but Jonah and Cordell are outside FAs. WHat more can the Bengals do?

I call BS on that! Pauley sucked just as bad as Pollack. I put blame on the front offices inability to find o-line talent and find coaches who can coach. This really has been an issue for at least two decades. I hate they put emphasis on the skilled position and could care less about o line


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[THE PISTONS]

Through 4 weeks, Jonah Williams is the Bengals highest graded Offensive Lineman

but that grade is only 61.5

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) October 2, 2023

[THE PISTONS]

Bengals pass pro grades with pressure rate allowed in week 4:

Orlando Brown: 78.2, 5.7%
Jonah Williams: 71.8, 8.6%
Ted Karras: 58.6, 5.7%
Cordell Volson: 37.6, 8.6%
Alex Cappa: 36.4, 5.7%

The guards are killing them.

— Andrew Russell (@Andrew_Russell7) October 2, 2023

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-02-2023, 06:02 PM)J24 Wrote: You can fire Pollack all you want but that would mean that thier would be a 3rd OL coach in Zacs tenor. Also firing Pollack doesn't solve the fact that Duke can't draft OL.

So much this.

Replacing Pollack is all fine and good, but it won’t matter until you start nailing some draft picks. No team can pay 5 FA’s to be their starting OL.

ETA:

Just saw this and i pretty much rest my case.

You have to go back to 2011 to find a successful (above average - good) mid-late Bengals draft pick on the OL. It's a drafting issue. Plain and simple https://t.co/BQxJLPdSwn pic.twitter.com/avlgGsugRn

— Ryan The Cocaine Hippo (@RoyleRedlegs) October 3, 2023

Really puts things in perspective seeing it listed out like this.

[puddycat]

Does anyone think that if we had drafted Penei Sewell that he would now be the elite RT that he is now? I don't. How is it possible that all our OL FAs regress when they get here? Is Clint Boling (2011) a 4th rounder the last OL drafted to outperform his draft position? My problem is that our OL are far from the only players on offense who don't show up ready to play on Sunday. Can we afford these players to regress any more? No.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-02-2023, 07:18 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Let’s give the offensive line some props for at least run blocking better this season. Joe Mixon has had some success.  This makes me wonder why Zac doesn’t call more run plays.

That's a damn good question.  1st and 5, and the rushing attack has a little momentum, so are we going to pound the rock?  Zac, "Nope, let's get cute and waste this golden opportunity".

[*Synric*]

(10-02-2023, 06:02 PM)J24 Wrote: You can fire Pollack all you want but that would mean that thier would be a 3rd OL coach in Zacs tenor. Also firing Pollack doesn't solve the fact that Duke can't draft OL.

(10-02-2023, 10:40 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So much this.

Replacing Pollack is all fine and good, but it won’t matter until you start nailing some draft picks. No team can pay 5 FA’s to be their starting OL.

ETA:

Just saw this and i pretty much rest my case.

You have to go back to 2011 to find a successful (above average - good) mid-late Bengals draft pick on the OL. It's a drafting issue. Plain and simple https://t.co/BQxJLPdSwn pic.twitter.com/avlgGsugRn

— Ryan The Cocaine Hippo (@RoyleRedlegs) October 3, 2023

Really puts things in perspective seeing it listed out like this.

The Bengals offensive line coach has always been heavily involved when doing the offensive line scouting. In 2021 when they drafted Chase Pollack worked out every high rated OL prospect. From listening to thr former Bengals scout on Paul Cehner podcast it sounded like Duke Tobin and his scouts like to identify prospects they believe the coaches will like then rely on their input when drafting the players.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-03-2023, 12:35 AM)puddycat Wrote: Does anyone think that if we had drafted Penei Sewell that he would now be the elite RT that he is now?  I don't.  How is it possible that all our OL FAs regress when they get here?  Is Clint Boling (2011) a 4th rounder the last OL drafted to outperform his draft position?  My problem is that our OL are far from the only players on offense who don't show up ready to play on Sunday.  Can we afford these players to regress any more?  No.

And that's the interesting debate. I think Sewell was a great prospect. But, Jonah Williams was considered a finished product too.

Evan Mathis sucked here. Then went to the Eagles and was the best Guard in the league. This was quite some time ago.

He did an AMA on Reddit or something similar and talked about how the Eagles had a really aggressive blocking scheme and he called himself a caveman and said it fit him well. The implication was that the Bengals used a passive scheme.

[jj22]

It's the twilight zone with this question. it's like being stuck in a loop.

[THE PISTONS]

Name me a single OL prospect he got with a good chance at becoming a Pro Bowl type player.

But also, I think Karras, Cappa and Brown have been EXACTLY who they were before they signed in Cincinnati. Nothing has changed. https://t.co/DQHNxKZOKk

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) October 3, 2023

[THE PISTONS]

And I'm talking about the draft.
Jonah was always considered to be a high floor / low ceiling prospect.

Jackson Carman? Lol
D'Ante Smith, Hakeem Adeniji or Trey Hill? Low chance lottery tickets.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) October 3, 2023

[J24]

(10-03-2023, 08:58 AM)Synric Wrote: The Bengals offensive line coach has always been heavily involved when doing the offensive line scouting. In 2021 when they drafted Chase Pollack worked out every high rated OL prospect. From listening to thr former Bengals scout on Paul Cehner podcast it sounded like Duke Tobin and his scouts like to identify prospects they believe the coaches will like then rely on their input when drafting the players.

At the end of the day Duke picks the players. This is on him.

[J24]

(10-03-2023, 09:04 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And that's the interesting debate. I think Sewell was a great prospect. But, Jonah Williams was considered a finished product too.

Evan Mathis sucked here. Then went to the Eagles and was the best Guard in the league. This was quite some time ago.

He did an AMA on Reddit or something similar and talked about how the Eagles had a really aggressive blocking scheme and he called himself a caveman and said it fit him well. The implication was that the Bengals used a passive scheme

Evan did not suck here he just didn't get along with Paul.(at least according to PFF) He had pff grades in the 90s in 09 and 2010.

[J24]

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2023/3/1/23619872/identifying-the-key-combine-drills-offensive-lineman-and-the-short-shuttle-ny-jets

[Brownshoe]

I'm starting to think Pollock is past his time as an OL coach. I've been a fan of his, but damn. I feel like we have talent on the line. We've brought in proven starters at 3/5 positions and Williams isn't terrible. I feel like it's just the scheme and coaching at this point. I would have 100% said it was the talent a couple years ago, but we've been active on FA for the line.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-03-2023, 10:40 AM)J24 Wrote: At the end of the day Duke picks the players. This is on him.

Yep. And when it’s been a decade without hitting on a single pick, under 3 different OL coaches, you have to look at the common denominator.

Seriously, Zeitler was 11 years ago at this point. You could throw darts at the draft board and have more success selecting linemen.

[J24]

Since 2015 the Bengals have drafted 3 OL in the first two rounds that didn't have a preseason workout. Carmen, Price, and OG(15).

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-03-2023, 11:03 AM)J24 Wrote: Since 2015 the Bengals have drafted 3 OL in the first two rounds that didn't have a preseason workout. Carmen, Price, and OG(15).

I was gonna say, I’m pretty sure i remember Pollack saying he had never even met Jackson Carman before they drafted him.

[Clark W Griswold]

Something has to change because the O line is still not good enough and now they need to be even better with Statue Joe at QB. If they keep playing like this then they can draft Joe Alt who looks like a plug and play guy that even they (hopefully) can’t screw up.

Even worse is that the title of this thread doesn’t specify which line because they are both garbage right now. Bengals are giving up 5.1 yards per rush and are at the bottom of the league in yards allowed, too. That’s totally unacceptable from a well-paid front 6 (including the LBs)

I think it’s going to be a long year…