William Jackson posts cryptic tweet regarding defensive changes

[Pat5775]

I take it as most others: we're going back to more man coverage.

Thank god

[*Synric*]

(11-16-2018, 12:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: That is press cover 3. To the fire zone, you do that because you were at minus 1 with the NB blitz. It is similar to the backside "Lock" I talked about on trips. If that top side was trips they would have checked the man to a deep third, so imagine flipping the TE from right to left there.

It is. The outside corners are playing man looks like bump and run. As you said if the HB falls out into the flat that could be a big play down the sideline because both outside corners turn their back to the play.

If they flip the TE they'd have to check out of the blitz

Point is to your original statement you don't have to play man coverage across the board it can be mixed and matched.

[sandwedge]

This could also kill us this week. We have slow Lbs and in man to man our DBs will have their backs to the QB, who just happens to be Lamar Jackson...

[Au165]

(11-16-2018, 01:09 PM)Synric Wrote: It is. The outside corners are playing man looks like bump and run. As you said if the HB falls out into the flat that could be a big play down the sideline because both outside corners turn their back to the play.

If they flip the TE they'd have to check out of the blitz

Point is to your original statement you don't have to play man coverage across the board it can be mixed and matched.

No it's press bail technique which is common for cover 3 zone (what Seattle ran with legion of boom often). It's deep third responsibility but because they have no vertical threat they stay with the curls. It's is zone coverage that converts to man. I think maybe we are having a bit of a translation issue where we talk past each other. They can end up in man principals but often a play is zone to start but can morph into man. You don't really create plays by design where you intentionally are assigning man to a guy on the outside with zone on the linebackers (both specifically, I already mentioned 1), it's normally a piece of a zone coverage that checked it into that often based on formation. 

Which would revert it back to the zone principals, because it's a zone coverage with a man check. 

To my original statement, yes you do formations can dictate the zone matching concepts I explained from the start but you aren't designing a scheme that is man outside zone inside, it by definition would be a zone play. If you are in a true man defense there is no matching whatever formation is you play it out man which is why you go man across the board, save cover 1 or cover 2. We were already playing matching concepts that weren't getting picked up correctly, so it's kind of moot. Bottom line if you want to play man outside we are going to be playing man inside on so you better be able to handle it with your LBs.

[*Synric*]

(11-16-2018, 01:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: No it's press bail technique which is common for cover 3 zone (what Seattle ran with legion of boom often). It's deep third responsibility but because they have no vertical threat they stay with the curls. It's is zone coverage that converts to man. I think maybe we are having a bit of a translation issue where we talk past each other. They can end up in man principals but often a play is zone to start but can morph into man. You don't really create plays by design where you intentionally are assigning man to a guy on the outside with zone on the linebackers (both specifically, I already mentioned 1), it's normally a piece of a zone coverage that checked it into that often based on formation. 

Which would revert it back to the zone principals, because it's a zone coverage with a man check. 

To my original statement, yes you do formations can dictate the zone matching concepts I explained from the start but you aren't designing a scheme that is man outside zone inside. That doesn't exist as a whole as you kind of insinuated to start. We were already playing matching concepts that weren't getting picked up correctly, so it's kind of moot. Bottom line if you want to play man outside we are going to be playing man inside on so you better be able to handle it with your LBs.

No Press Bail technique gives the corner outside leverage. 

Corner shows press but right before the ball is snapped they bail outside and turn toward the play taking away the outside. The corner never actually tries to get hands on the receiver like they do in that play.

[Au165]

(11-16-2018, 01:35 PM)Synric Wrote: No Press Bail technique gives the corner outside leverage. 

Corner shows press but right before the ball is snapped they bail outside and turn toward the play taking away the outside. The corner never actually tries to get hands on the receiver like they do in that play.

Contrary to belief it is press bail if you are up in press position and still bail without a chance to reroute. Seattle has done this for years they don't always make an attempt to reroute at all. 



That is a good example of Dan Quinn in Atlanta using the same technique that he kind of established when he was the DC in Seattle for the LOB. You can see that the CB is playing it inside just like in the video you posted earlier, however he goes vertical causing the CB to carry it up. In the video previously they don't show vertical so they close down on the curl. It is cover 3 zone press with p[ress bail technique on the outside (still zone).

[*Synric*]

(11-16-2018, 01:38 PM)Au165 Wrote: Contrary to belief it is press bail if you are up in press position and still bail without a chance to reroute. Seattle has done this for years they don't always make an attempt to reroute at all. 



That is a good example of Dan Quinn in Atlanta using the same technique. You can see that the CB is playing it inside just like in the video you posted earlier, however he goes vertical causing the CB to carry it up. In the video they don't show vertical so they close down on the curl. It is cover 3 zone press using press bail.

Yea see how the corner turns inside even though the WR is going behind him? On the play I showed both outside corners turn their back to the field.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

This is great discussion boys, keep it up!

[Whodey614]

(11-16-2018, 01:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: This could also kill us this week. We have slow Lbs and in man to man our DBs will have their backs to the QB, who just happens to be Lamar Jackson...

This could be the week where Malik Jefferson is unleashed. One of his strengths in college was his ability to spy the QB.

[Au165]

(11-16-2018, 01:42 PM)Synric Wrote: Yea see how the corner turns inside even though the WR is going behind him? On the play I showed both outside corners turn their back to the field.

Yea, its "Man Turn". Makes it look like man, but still zone principals (most the time). Allows the corners to break on the underneath similar to what we saw here with the curls. Wonder if there is more video of this game to see how they play that in other formations. To be fair sometimes it is man to your point, but normally it's single side man with a blitz involved like the fire zone, but that's still considered a zone scheme with pattern matching. I said earlier, pattern matching I think is what has gotten us a lot of the mix ups we have seen early on with Austin's scheme.

We kind of went way off topic but I enjoyed it!

[Benton]

If our guys are better at man (and honestly, I couldn't tell you if they are or if they have been better in zone), then why did we bring in a coordinator who wasn't planning on using them that way?

[Shake n Blake]

(11-16-2018, 01:59 PM)Benton Wrote: If our guys are better at man (and honestly, I couldn't tell you if they are or if they have been better in zone), then why did we bring in a coordinator who wasn't planning on using them that way?

...because he's from the Pittsburgh area, like Marv? 

[XenoMorph]

(11-16-2018, 01:59 PM)Benton Wrote: If our guys are better at man (and honestly, I couldn't tell you if they are or if they have been better in zone), then why did we bring in a coordinator who wasn't planning on using them that way?

well INTs are up....

[I_C_DeadPeople]

He should have posted a cryptic message like 'we wont suck as bad this week'

[kevin]

(11-16-2018, 10:12 AM)Fullrock Wrote: Play more man. Bring Williams up in the box for run support especially with a severely depleted LB crew. You can't continue to do the same things that have led to being the worst defense in franchise history.

Williams is the worst on the field.  36 gets lit up every play.  Maybe Lewis can get more out of him.  Williams needs fired more than Austin up to now. 

[BengalsBong]

(11-16-2018, 01:50 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: This could be the week where Malik Jefferson is unleashed. One of his strengths in college was his ability to spy the QB.

Should of used him in Panthers game then.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-15-2018, 11:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I would interpret it as they're going back to man coverage, and he's ready to play a good game.

My take too.

Honestly, I look for the defense to play well. There's going to be no tape whatsoever on them with Marvin calling the plays.

IF they do go man-to-man that's puzzling, because we always assumed it was Marvin wanting weak zone all these years.

[grampahol]

(11-17-2018, 01:47 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: My take too.

Honestly, I look for the defense to play well. There's going to be no tape whatsoever on them with Marvin calling the plays.

IF they do go man-to-man that's puzzling, because weto always assumed it was Marvin wanting weak zone all these years.

They'll either play great or play terrible with absolutely no room for "Look..They did ok there" or "hmm..coulda done better" 

[THE PISTONS]

I don't see Jackson passing for 300 yards against us...that's for sure.

With that said, I could see the Ravens running for 300 yards.