Yet Another Abortion Argument

[*PhilHos*]

(09-15-2016, 12:58 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Fine. Can she force him to get a vasovasostomy?  And vasectomies aren't always reversible. 

Maybe not, but abortions are 100% irreversible.

[*bfine32*]

(09-15-2016, 12:11 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Doesn't matter. Vasectomies are reversible; abortions are not.

I think the bigger difference and why, in no way, the two are not corollary is that my vas deferens was not created and composed with half her DNA. So she should have zero say over my desire to have a vasectomy, just as I should have zero say over her choice to have a tubal ligation; a truly corollary procedure.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-15-2016, 01:03 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Maybe not, but abortions are 100% irreversible.

Have you tried prayer?  Anything is possible through prayer, right?  So if abortions are 100% irreversible wouldn't that suggest prayer is ineffective?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-15-2016, 02:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the bigger difference and why, in no way, the two are not corollary is that my vas deferens was not created and composed with half her DNA. So she should have zero say over my desire to have a vasectomy, just as I should have zero say over her choice to have a tubal ligation; a truly corollary procedure.

Should she have a veto power over any procedure you give informed consent  to have performed on you if you are mentally competent?  

That is the "corollary" and I know that you know it despite the song and dance. 

[Benton]

(09-15-2016, 11:19 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I think prostitution should be legal; of course the effects it has on human trafficking should weigh into the decision.

Abortion is a totally different subject and I do not see any correlation. Only women can agree/disagree to have abortions; yet both men and women can agree be prostitutes; only one of these 2 is biased based on sex.

hopefully it would reduce trafficking. Similar to prohibition repeals, which have been a big thing in parts of Kentucky the last 20ish years. Research has shown instead of increasing underage drinking, duis and other negatives, going wet actually decreased them. Why differed, sometimes more enforcement, sometimes more education opportunities thanks to the taxed revenue.

[*bfine32*]

(09-15-2016, 02:54 PM)Benton Wrote: hopefully it would reduce trafficking. Similar to prohibition repeals, which have been a big thing in parts of Kentucky the last 20ish years. Research has shown instead of increasing underage drinking, duis and other negatives, going wet actually decreased them. Why differed, sometimes more enforcement, sometimes more education opportunities thanks to the taxed revenue.

..and that would be my #1 reason to legalize prostitution. I think it would reduce it as well. I also think that doing so could decrease the situations that those that choose to do it are faced with.

[BmorePat87]

(09-15-2016, 02:54 PM)Benton Wrote: hopefully it would reduce trafficking. Similar to prohibition repeals, which have been a big thing in parts of Kentucky the last 20ish years. Research has shown instead of increasing underage drinking, duis and other negatives, going wet actually decreased them. Why differed, sometimes more enforcement, sometimes more education opportunities thanks to the taxed revenue.

Yea, a regulated and legal system seems like it would make it harder to sustain your business on trafficked women/girls. If you have people inspecting your brothel, looking at IDs, SSN, birth certificates, etc, requiring medical check ups. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-15-2016, 03:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, a regulated and legal system seems like it would make it harder to sustain your business on trafficked women/girls. If you have people inspecting your brothel, looking at IDs, SSN, birth certificates, etc, requiring medical check ups. 

I can't wait for djam to show up to tell us how government intervention in the prostitution industry will ruin it for all the capitalists pimps who will just pass the cost along to the customer. Can you imagine the taxes?  Christ, the pimps will have to outsource the jobs to overseas prostitutes just to stay competitive. Pretty soon the immigrant prostitutes will form corrupt unions and demand free stuff like Workers Comp and health insurance which you and I will subsidize with our tax dollars. 

[Benton]

(09-15-2016, 03:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..and that would be my #1 reason to legalize prostitution. I think it would reduce it as well. I also think that doing so could decrease the situations that those that choose to do it are faced with.

(09-15-2016, 03:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, a regulated and legal system seems like it would make it harder to sustain your business on trafficked women/girls. If you have people inspecting your brothel, looking at IDs, SSN, birth certificates, etc, requiring medical check ups. 

Pretty much. It would hopefully end a lot of exploitation, as there wouldn't be a reason for consumers to go to illegitimate places, unless they were going for something illegal anyway. And it would free up law enforcement to focus on those places instead of just busting men and women of legal age.

(09-15-2016, 03:30 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I can't wait for djam to show up to tell us how government intervention in the prostitution industry will ruin it for all the capitalists pimps who will just pass the cost along to the customer. Can you imagine the taxes?  Christ, the pimps will have to outsource the jobs to overseas prostitutes just to stay competitive. Pretty soon the immigrant prostitutes will form corrupt unions and demand free stuff like Workers Comp and health insurance which you and I will subsidize with our tax dollars. 

I wonder what the untaxed potential there is. My guess is you could come pretty close to paying for public healthcare if you put a surcharge on licenses and just taxed the standard on income earned. If guys (and women) were paying with debit cards, checks and other traceable payment forms, you'd have a lot of suddenly claimed income.

Of course, you'd also have condoms and mouthwash claimed as business expenses to offset some of that.

[*bfine32*]

I think a good exercise would be how to construct a business model for legal prostitution:

Independent workers versus franchise. Are they employees or entrepreneurs. Are they paid a flat rate and have to rely on tips. Work from private locations or in a location zoned for business, ect...

All my fellow Business Majors (conservatives) get to work; liberals; write a blog.

[GMDino]

(09-15-2016, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think a good exercise would be how to construct a business model for legal prostitution:

Independent workers versus franchise. Are they employees or entrepreneurs. Are they paid a flat rate and have to rely on tips. Work from private locations or in a location zoned for business, ect...

All my fellow Business Majors (conservatives) get to work; liberals; write a blog.

[masterpanthera_t]

(09-15-2016, 10:42 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Since the majority of us are in the United States, I'm obviously referring to here.

The difference between porn and prostitution is that porn isn't something that the common person can do or even would do and is produced for entertainment.

It's a thin line in the technical sense but not in the moral or in the use of common sense.

Since you're a teacher- something to do with every day life I recall, current events or something of that sort- do you tell the girls in your classes that they should consider becoming prostitutes because it should be legal?

Do you tell the 18-year-old girls that they should be able to let the boys in the class pay them for sex?

I bet you don't.

Yes, though, it's very different from the porn industry.

(09-15-2016, 11:17 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So you don't see a distinction between porn and prostitution morally. Which means if you have ever watched porn, morally you're no different than a prostitute's John. Since you don't see a distinction between porn and prostitution, should porn be illegal like prostitution?  Who put you in charge of making decisions for everybody else? Frankly, you're not qualified for that job. 

While I don't see the connections drawn in the OP nor am I particularly sympathetic to his viewpoint, I believe the bold lines for which you responded are intended to mean that while there is a technical distinction there is NO moral distinction between the two.  I'm sure you will be getting a direct response from BFritz likely making the same point here soon.  Not sure why I chose this particular post to clarify one poster's point to another poster, but maybe I'm getting bored.

[Benton]

(09-15-2016, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think a good exercise would be how to construct a business model for legal prostitution:

Independent workers versus franchise. Are they employees or entrepreneurs. Are they paid a flat rate and have to rely on tips. Work from private locations or in a location zoned for business, ect...

All my fellow Business Majors (conservatives) get to work; liberals; write a blog.

Quote:We cross-checked the Open Secrets list of the top 100 individuals donating to outside spending groups in the current election against the Forbes list of the world’s billionaires and found that, as of June 19, there were 22 individuals on the Open Secrets list who were billionaires. Of those 22 billionaires, 13 -- or more than half -- gave predominantly to liberal groups or groups affiliated with the Democratic Party. The other nine gave predominantly to conservative groups. (A list of billionaires and how much they donated can be found here.)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/jun/23/do-many-billionaires-support-democratic-party/

Of course, they're probably only billionaires because the other guys gave them all the money.

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2016, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think a good exercise would be how to construct a business model for legal prostitution:

Independent workers versus franchise. Are they employees or entrepreneurs. Are they paid a flat rate and have to rely on tips. Work from private locations or in a location zoned for business, ect...

All my fellow Business Majors (conservatives) get to work; liberals; write a blog.

This is mixed messaging for me, and most accountants I know.

[THE Bigzoman]

What's your angle?...

Yes, you could use that same line of reasoning to legalize prostitution.

The government shouldn't be involved in things where people exercise control and decisions with their own body.

[THE Bigzoman]

(09-15-2016, 03:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, a regulated and legal system seems like it would make it harder to sustain your business on trafficked women/girls. If you have people inspecting your brothel, looking at IDs, SSN, birth certificates, etc, requiring medical check ups. 

I don't think pimps would register or report their traficking rings to the government if prostitution were legalized. 


I support legalized prostitution, but more on the grounds that the government shouldn't insert itself in anything and everything that gives enjoyment and decent living standards.

Legalization advocates just need to keep in mind that regulations and laws raise production costs, which makes the black markets more likely to compete with legal markets by offering a lower price.

Just don't let politictians go wild with their paternalism and dollar sign eyes and the black market will fade.

[BmorePat87]

(09-15-2016, 08:18 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I don't think pimps would register or report their traficking rings to the government if prostitution were legalized. 


I support legalized prostitution, but more on the grounds that the government shouldn't insert itself in anything and everything that gives enjoyment and decent living standards.

Legalization advocates just need to keep in mind that regulations and laws raise production costs, which makes the black markets more likely to compete with legal markets by offering a lower price.

Just don't let politictians go wild with their paternalism and dollar sign eyes and the black market will fade.

Illegal prostitution rings would lose business if it was legalized. Not totally, but enough that they aren't financially viable or worth the risks.

How many moonshine rings do you see? When Colorado first legalized pot, the legal dispenseries faced a lot of competition from the old dealers, but prices have fallen to the point where it isn't worth going to an illegal dealer over a legal seller. This is a bit different as it's still a federal crime, so these businesses have to charge a little more since it's hard to get business loans and investors sometimes, but the general trend of black market business decreasing has occured. 

[Benton]

(09-15-2016, 08:18 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I don't think pimps would register or report their traficking rings to the government if prostitution were legalized. 


I support legalized prostitution, but more on the grounds that the government shouldn't insert itself in anything and everything that gives enjoyment and decent living standards.

Legalization advocates just need to keep in mind that regulations and laws raise production costs, which makes the black markets more likely to compete with legal markets by offering a lower price.

Just don't let politictians go wild with their paternalism and dollar sign eyes and the black market will fade.

id disagree. Buy beer from a bootlegger, you pay a higher price. From what I understand about states that have legalized pot, its gone down. Unregistered firearms typically go higher than buying it in a store.

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2016, 08:18 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I don't think pimps would register or report their traficking rings to the government if prostitution were legalized. 


I support legalized prostitution, but more on the grounds that the government shouldn't insert itself in anything and everything that gives enjoyment and decent living standards.

Legalization advocates just need to keep in mind that regulations and laws raise production costs, which makes the black markets more likely to compete with legal markets by offering a lower price.

Just don't let politictians go wild with their paternalism and dollar sign eyes and the black market will fade.

seems you might not understand the economics behind making something like prostitution legal. Prostitution exists simply because there is demand for it. Right now the supply is illegal. When they only way to meet demand is illegal activity it attracts people already doing illegal things to get involved, this is where the pimps and trafficking comes into play. Now, pimps that traffic will likely continue to be a problem for some time, but when police can focus on that rather than all prostitution, it allows a freeing of resources. They would also lose business because if someone has two choices, one legal, one illegal, but the same otherwise, people will more often than not take the legal option even if price is a little higher because of the risk factor.

Pimps that don't traffic exist for protection. Protection from johns since they can't go to the law, and from the law itself. With the status of prostitution as a legal industry, they would be able to go to the police if something were to happen. This would actually offset any of your potential increase in production costs as it cuts out someone else that is taking a cut of the revenue and replaces it with taxes and licensing.

[GMDino]

(09-16-2016, 07:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: seems you might not understand the economics behind making something like prostitution legal. Prostitution exists simply because there is demand for it. Right now the supply is illegal. When they only way to meet demand is illegal activity it attracts people already doing illegal things to get involved, this is where the pimps and trafficking comes into play. Now, pimps that traffic will likely continue to be a problem for some time, but when police can focus on that rather than all prostitution, it allows a freeing of resources. They would also lose business because if someone has two choices, one legal, one illegal, but the same otherwise, people will more often than not take the legal option even if price is a little higher because of the risk factor.

Pimps that don't traffic exist for protection. Protection from johns since they can't go to the law, and from the law itself. With the status of prostitution as a legal industry, they would be able to go to the police if something were to happen. This would actually offset any of your potential increase in production costs as it cuts out someone else that is taking a cut of the revenue and replaces it with taxes and licensing.

Well!  I didn't know you were a conservative!  Or maybe this was a blog post so you are a liberal?