marvin is worse then I even thought he needs to go asap

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-04-2016, 03:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You are assuming I too am "just happy to make the playoffs". I'm not, but I'm not going to whine and complain if what I want doesn't actually happen. I'll just do something else for entertainment. Watching NFL isn't life.

You call it whining, I call it talking about reality. You probably have no emotion after a loss, no sadness no anger it's just ho hum lol at least it's not the 90s.it's called passion for what you love.I never implied that the Bengals were life either. 

[Brownshoe]

(11-04-2016, 08:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Zimmer was a DC for 8 years before hecame to Cincinnati and only had one top 10 scoring defense and 3 winning seasons.  In just six years with the Bengals he had 4 top 10 scoring defenses and 4 playoff appearances.

In Hue's 3 seasons as an OC before coming to the Bengals he had zero winning seasons and only one year in the top half of the league in scoring offense.  Both seasons he was with the Bengals he made the playoffs and finished in the top half of the league in scoring.

Nether of them would be head coaches right now if they had not worked under Marvin.

Yep and what teams were they on?  The offensive oriented Cowboys team and the Raiders who didn't have a winning season in forever. When Hue was the OC for the Raiders they had their best season in 10+ years. This year is the only year they can possibly do better. The Bengals defense was horrible until Zimmer came in and fixed it. Without Zimmer we probably would never have had a defense above middle of the pack. When Zimmer took over the Cowboys defense they were ranked 32nd. Only 2 years later and he had them ranked 8th. Keep on trying to spin things without giving all the info to make it misleading. That's the only thing you really do 

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-04-2016, 04:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yep and what teams were they on?  The offensive oriented Cowboys team and the Raiders who didn't have a winning season in forever. When Hue was the OC for the Raiders they had their best season in 10+ years. This year is the only year they can possibly do better. The Bengals defense was horrible until Zimmer came in and fixed it. Without Zimmer we probably would never have had a defense above middle of the pack. When Zimmer took over the Cowboys defense they were ranked 32nd. Only 2 years later and he had them ranked 8th.  Keep on trying to spin things without giving all the info to make it misleading. That's the only thing you really do 

Killed him lol

[fredtoast]

(11-04-2016, 04:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yep and what teams were they on?  The offensive oriented Cowboys team and the Raiders who didn't have a winning season in forever.

That is my point exactly.  Neither of them had near as much success before coaching under Marvin because they were on worse teams.

If either Hue or Zimmer could "carry" a head coach then they would have had just as much success under every other NFL coach, but they clearly did not.

[fredtoast]

(11-04-2016, 02:56 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Lol you guys are something else on here,just happy to be a fan and just happy to make the playoffs, you shame people who want and expect more. 

Actually the problem is with people like you who claim you accept "nothing but the best" when in fact you have never done anything special in your entire life.

You like to pretend that you are superior to other people because of your high standards and expectations, but that is just a game you play to make yourself feel better about yourself.

I am always disappointed when we lose in the playoffs.  I want to win a Super Bowl just as much as you.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-04-2016, 04:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yep and what teams were they on?  The offensive oriented Cowboys team and the Raiders who didn't have a winning season in forever. When Hue was the OC for the Raiders they had their best season in 10+ years. This year is the only year they can possibly do better. The Bengals defense was horrible until Zimmer came in and fixed it. Without Zimmer we probably would never have had a defense above middle of the pack. When Zimmer took over the Cowboys defense they were ranked 32nd. Only 2 years later and he had them ranked 8th.  Keep on trying to spin things without giving all the info to make it misleading. That's the only thing you really do 

Brownshoe knows whats up.

[jfkbengals]

(11-04-2016, 04:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yep and what teams were they on?  The offensive oriented Cowboys team and the Raiders who didn't have a winning season in forever. When Hue was the OC for the Raiders they had their best season in 10+ years. This year is the only year they can possibly do better. The Bengals defense was horrible until Zimmer came in and fixed it. Without Zimmer we probably would never have had a defense above middle of the pack. When Zimmer took over the Cowboys defense they were ranked 32nd. Only 2 years later and he had them ranked 8th.  Keep on trying to spin things without giving all the info to make it misleading. That's the only thing you really do 

That defense was the first year under Bill Parcells and the offense ranked 1st in yards and 2nd in points.

A high flying offense can aid a defense by both keeping them fresh and making the opposition one dimensional.  How much did that impact the defense?  Think about our own defense in 2005.  They were good, not great, and aided heavily by a great offense.

Bill Parcells clearly speaks for himself as a defensive mastermind, so how much of a hand did he have in the rise of that defense?

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2016, 02:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Brownshoe knows whats up.

Uh, no he does not.  You just blindly swallow anything anyone tells you that seems to support yout position.

(11-04-2016, 04:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote:  When Zimmer took over the Cowboys defense they were ranked 32nd. Only 2 years later and he had them ranked 8th.

 The year before Zimmer became the Cowboys defensive coordinator (1999) their defense ranked top ten in both scoring (5th) and yards allowed (9th).  In 2000, Zim took over and they dropped to 22nd in scoring and 19th in yards allowed.  The next year ('01) they rose to #4 in yards allowed but were still 20th in scoring.


In his 8 total seasons as a DC before working under Marvin, Zim's defense's finished 20th or lower in scoring 5 times and only once placed in the top 10.  In six years under Marvin they ranked 20th or lower only once and were top 10 4 times.


Under Marvin Zim grew from a mediocre DC looking for work to a prime head coaching candidate.

[Older Than You]

People still read Fred's fail?

As soon as I see his avatar, I know to skip a post.

[*bfine32*]

Well Zimmer made damn sure his players didn't play too many snaps in OT. If only Marvin could do that.

[*Awful Llama*]

(11-03-2016, 06:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If we turn it ariound and make the playoffs then I guess he should stay.

If we miss the playoffs then he should go.

(11-04-2016, 12:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I can agree with this. 

Agree that missing the playoffs means Marvin should get sacked.  But, say they do make the playoffs but are one-and-done for the eighth time in Marvin's tenure.  I'd say that's also grounds for moving on from him.  He needs to win a playoff game to keep coaching this team, IMHO.  Agree or no? 

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2016, 07:04 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: He needs to win a playoff game to keep coaching this team, IMHO.  Agree or no? 

To me it would depend on how we lost. For instance, last year we had it with a backup QB and Marvin had nothing to do with:

The Steelers being awarded a TO for knocking out Gio on an illegal hit

Jeremy Hill fumbling while milking out the game

Similar play to the Steelers being awarded a TO called a Personal Foul on us when Burfict gives AB the shoulder

The refs allowing a Steeler coach to be on the field running his mouth and then flagging our guy when he tells him to GTFO.

[Hammerthis]

(11-06-2016, 01:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is my point exactly.  Neither of them had near as much success before coaching under Marvin because they were on worse teams.

If either Hue or Zimmer could "carry" a head coach then they would have had just as much success under every other NFL coach, but they clearly did not.

Checkmate...you killed is ass!

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-06-2016, 01:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually the problem is with people like you who claim you accept "nothing but the best" when in fact you have never done anything special in your entire life.

You like to pretend that you are superior to other people because of your high standards and expectations, but that is just a game you play to make yourself feel better about yourself.

I am always disappointed when we lose in the playoffs.  I want to win a Super Bowl just as much as you.

Way to get personalwhen y'all don't even know me. Let me remind you. We haven't had much success, we haven't won a playoff game in 25 years. 

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2016, 08:18 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Way to get personal when y'all don't even know me.

You were the one who started the personal attacks....

(11-04-2016, 02:56 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Lol you guys are something else on here,just happy to be a fan and just happy to make the playoffs, you shame people who want and expect more. 

[*wildcats forever*]

Cool your jets, boys. This 'getting personal' stuff never ends well. Stick to the thread topic and respect each other's point of view without the silly stuff.

[Brownshoe]

(11-06-2016, 03:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no he does not.  You just blindly swallow anything anyone tells you that seems to support yout position.



 The year before Zimmer became the Cowboys defensive coordinator (1999) their defense ranked top ten in both scoring (5th) and yards allowed (9th).  In 2000, Zim took over and they dropped to 22nd in scoring and 19th in yards allowed.  The next year ('01) they rose to #4 in yards allowed but were still 20th in scoring.


In his 8 total seasons as a DC before working under Marvin, Zim's defense's finished 20th or lower in scoring 5 times and only once placed in the top 10.  In six years under Marvin they ranked 20th or lower only once and were top 10 4 times.


Under Marvin Zim grew from a mediocre DC looking for work to a prime head coaching candidate.

LOL!!! You try to make it seem like Zimmer became a defensive mind because of Marvin. That's pretty funny honestly. You know that Marvin has had only 1 season where he's was in the top 10 in points allowed without Zimmer, and that was last year. He's never had a defense that was in the top 10 in yards allowed without Zimmer either. Marvin Lewis has only had two season where he's been in THE TOP HALF of the league in points allowed without Zimmer. Yeah... Zimmer became such a good defensive coach because of Marvin....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Hue has already been a HC.....lest folks forget.  He lead the then horrible team to the cusp of a Division title and 8-8.  He was only let go due to an internal power struggle.

I also love Marv defenders saying basically we've had two/three different rosters....three different staffs.....but somehow it's all their faults we're 0-7 in the playoffs during his tenure.  LMFAO ! Really?

[*bfine32*]

(11-07-2016, 05:26 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: LOL!!! You try to make it seem like Zimmer became a defensive mind because of Marvin. That's pretty funny honestly. You know that Marvin has had only 1 season where he's was in the top 10 in points allowed without Zimmer, and that was last year. He's never had a defense that was in the top 10 in yards allowed without Zimmer either. Marvin Lewis has only had two season where he's been in THE TOP HALF of the league in points allowed without Zimmer. Yeah... Zimmer became such a good defensive coach because of Marvin....

Why didn't Zimmer do as well under other coaches as he did under Marvin? 

[*bfine32*]

(11-07-2016, 11:43 PM)Wyche Wrote: Hue has already been a HC.....lest folks forget.  He lead the then horrible team to the cusp of a Division title and 8-8.  He was only let go due to an internal power struggle.

Yep, looks like they have finally recovered from that blockbuster trade Hue made and are now playing good ball.