we need to stop sexual talk in schools

[Leon]

ive been reading an hearing so many cases of this lately an its real disurbing. they are teaching sexual stuff in schools that has no place. they are pushing kids to come up with pronouns and saying there gay or trans or such even if the kids aint. they are forcing these little kids to talk and think about stuff that is way past there years an its creepy an needs to be made illegal. what kind of teacher or schoolthinks its ok to push sex an sexual ideas on little kids. it aint right an they do it even when parents are against it.

why are they doing this. what are they wanting these little kids to be. just think about how creepy this is. something has to be done to stop this. teach school subjects not sexual stuff. thats not your job unless you got alterior motives. teachers who are doing this need fired immideatly and schools should get huge fines.

we would not tolerate any other adults talking about sexual stuff with little kids so why are we allowing this to happen

[Arturo Bandini]

Where did you hear that ?

[Leon]

(12-17-2022, 04:57 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Where did you hear that ?

its all over the place. do you have twitter or facebook or watch the news? it would take me days to list all the stories and reports

[hollodero]

(12-17-2022, 04:52 PM)Leon Wrote: why are they doing this.

Here's my honest answer, I think the intentions are good. My reasoning is that there is still a huge amount of discrimination against homosexual or otherwise uncommon people around, may my clumsy wording be excused. Discrimination that causes a lot of harm and suffering and even death.
And it is quite often passed on from parents to children. That's what many kids hear, for example how gays are immoral, horrible, deviant people. And there is where school comes in, as a corrective to such teachings. And that very much includes explaining that some people are gay, women loving women, men loving men, and it doesn't mean they are wrong or sick or are allowed to be a target of ridicule or hatred. Every child should hear about that message, and if the parents don't do it, then school should.

On the other hand, I can easily believe that quite some teachers take it too far, meaning further as I would feel perfectly comfortable with. But then again, that's what happens in school and in life, not everything children grasp from their surroundings is 100% age appropriate. School in particular of course should not be a place of such inappropriate ocurrences. But school isn't everything either. Parents still can talk to their children and put things in a different perspective. And that's what I feel when I read complaints like yours. Don't make a huge fuzz about school and rules and laws, use your energy to talk to your children about what they heard in school instead, like you would about something they saw on TV or heard their weird uncle say. All this outrage often is not about the kids really, but about parents that want to be outraged about a certain party, a certain trend or a certain life.

When it comes to teachers, I feel that can be decided on a case to case basis. You Americans really are not that carelessly ultraprogressive. If a teacher takes it too far, most parents will protest it and measures can be taken.

[Arturo Bandini]

(12-17-2022, 04:59 PM)Leon Wrote: its all over the place. do you have twitter or facebook or watch the news? it would take me days to list all the stories and reports

These are not informations. It's controlling the narrative. 

[*pally*]

Facebook and Twitter anecdotes aren't reality. Provide facts ie what is the lesson, taught at what grade, in what school district? When you challenge the accuser, the reaction is usually silence.

Grooming is thrown around a lot as an attack but it diminishes the actions and behaviors of actual sexual predators. Educating a child, in a classroom setting, on the names of their body parts is NOT grooming. Asking a child what they want to be called is NOT promoting transgenderism. Reading a story where Bobby has 2 mothers or 2 fathers is no more grooming than reading a story where Bobby has a father and a stepfather. Age-appropriate sexual education is NOT grooming. Assuming parents will teach their children about the "birds and bees" is how you end up with pregnant teenagers or teens with STDs. Numerous studies show that the more teens are taught about sexual health the less likely they were to participate in premarital sex.

Actual groomers/sexual predators target vulnerable children with friendship, attention, and affection. They build a relationship where the child is dependent on them for "positive" adult interaction. That is not the normal day-to-day relationship between 99.9% of teachers and their students. Children armed with factual information are far less susceptible than children kept in the dark. Children are more likely to be abused by a priest, minister, or family member than they are by an educator.

Children are NOT being taught about sexual acts in school. Children are NOT being forced to change their gender by their teachers. They are NOT being forced to become homosexual by their teachers. Education does NOT change one's sexual orientation nor does it make one disagree with their gender.

What they are being taught is RESPECT for people who may come from families different from theirs. RESPECT for those who may dress differently than they do. RESPECT for those who may believe or think differently than they do. And that is what so many conservatives can't deal with. EVen kindergarteners need to learn to get along with the type of people they will encounter in the real world.

[Leon]

(12-17-2022, 07:32 PM)pally Wrote: Facebook and Twitter anecdotes aren't reality.  Provide facts ie what is the lesson, taught at what grade, in what school district?  When you challenge the accuser, the reaction is usually silence.

Grooming is thrown around a lot as an attack but it diminishes the actions and behaviors of actual sexual predators.  Educating a child, in a classroom setting, on the names of their body parts is NOT grooming.  Asking a child what they want to be called is NOT promoting transgenderism.  Reading a story where Bobby has 2 mothers or 2 fathers is no more grooming than reading a story where Bobby has a father and a stepfather.  Age-appropriate sexual education is NOT grooming.  Assuming parents will teach their children about the "birds and bees" is how you end up with pregnant teenagers or teens with STDs.  Numerous studies show that the more teens are taught about sexual health the less likely they were to participate in premarital sex.

Actual groomers/sexual predators target vulnerable children with friendship, attention, and affection. They build a relationship where the child is dependent on them for "positive" adult interaction.  That is not the normal day-to-day relationship between 99.9% of teachers and their students. Children armed with factual information are far less susceptible than children kept in the dark.  Children are more likely to be abused by a priest, minister, or family member than they are by an educator.

Children are NOT being taught about sexual acts in school.  Children are NOT being forced to change their gender by their teachers.  They are NOT being forced to become homosexual by their teachers.  Education does NOT change one's sexual orientation nor does it make one disagree with their gender.

What they are being taught is RESPECT for people who may come from families different from theirs. RESPECT for those who may dress differently than they do.  RESPECT for those who may believe or think differently than they do.  And that is what so many conservatives can't deal with.  EVen kindergarteners need to learn to get along with the type of people they will encounter in the real world.

are you saying that all the stories an reports aint true. you really think it aint hapening at all. sorry but that aint reality. when folks say that stuff dont exist its literal doing the same thing your sayin. its enabling the folks who are doing it cause no one wants to hold them to there actions. maybe instead of just saying its all a lie do some research an find out that there is examples of it really going on. 

im shocked how little some folks out there care so little about whos teaching there kids an what there teaching them. if we just keep turnin a blind eye the kids are going to keep being victims. 

[*pally*]

(12-17-2022, 09:37 PM)Leon Wrote: are you saying that all the stories an reports aint true. you really think it aint hapening at all. sorry but that aint reality. when folks say that stuff dont exist its literal doing the same thing your sayin. its enabling the folks who are doing it cause no one wants to hold them to there actions. maybe instead of just saying its all a lie do some research an find out that there is examples of it really going on. 

im shocked how little some folks out there care so little about whos teaching there kids an what there teaching them. if we just keep turnin a blind eye the kids are going to keep being victims. 

okay then...I'll ask you the same questions I ask on Facebook or Twitter...

1) What school districts is this occurring in?

2) What is the exact lesson being taught that is "inappropriate"?

3) How old are the students?

I don't want generalities or anecdotes.  If these terrible horrible things are occuring then surely we know exactly who, what, and when. and how widespread this is?  

There can be no discussion unless there is an understanding of what the exact issue is.  Just claiming that something is happening is not proof that it acually is happening

[BigPapaKain]

I mean worrying about sexual education is a weird hill to do battle on when the church is still shuffling actual pedophiles.

[grampahol]

God forbid a kid learns about S-S-S.....ex!   They should be required to wait till they're 45 to learn that stuff! Why, when I was a kid we had to learn it through dirty magazines and whorehouses later on.. 
On the other hand I have grandkids who still aren't sure if they're boys, girls or something else, but they're still great kids I love to death.. I don't quite understand the thinking, but I don't have to. They're the ones who have to come of age with these burdens and it's up to them to figure out their own identities. Nobody is forcing any of it on them. It's the way our societies are changing around the world. It's not JUST in our schools.
If you want something to b*tch and whine about when it comes to education try on the knuckle dragging freaks who want to censor every book that even allows these kids to think for themselves..   I have more important shit to worry about like a possible looming global war, possible depression and so on.. How my grandkids think of their own identities is so low on the list of my shit to worry about it barely registers.. 

[Lucidus]

(12-17-2022, 04:52 PM)Leon Wrote: ive been reading an hearing so many cases of this lately an its real disurbing. they are teaching sexual stuff in schools that has no place. they are pushing kids to come up with pronouns and saying there gay or trans or such even if the kids aint. they are forcing these little kids to talk and think about stuff that is way past there years an its creepy an needs to be made illegal. what kind of teacher or schoolthinks its ok to push sex an sexual ideas on little kids. it aint right an they do it even when parents are against it.

why are they doing this. what are they wanting these little kids to be. just think about how creepy this is. something has to be done to stop this. teach school subjects not sexual stuff. thats not your job unless you got alterior motives. teachers who are doing this need fired immideatly and schools should get huge fines.

we would not tolerate any other adults talking about sexual stuff with little kids so why are we allowing this to happen

The assertions, outrage and vitriol directed at schools / teachers by a certain segment of conservatives is rather befuddling. The grooming conspiracies seem altogether an invention derived from a combination of ignorance, incredulity, intentional misinformation and narrative manipulation. However, the most vile aspect of the "grooming paranoia" is that it's entirely hypocritical and disingenuous at it's core.

Curiously, they do not target nor obsess over actual instances of child abuse, grooming or molestation. Where is the right's condemnation of the Catholic Church, who is still very much embroiled in coverups and investigatory interference -- see the situation in Canada over the past year as a prime example. Where is the righteous indignation over the numerous, ever-increasing cases of protestant clergy being caught possessing child porn? How about the insidious history and continued findings concerning the Boy Scouts of America?

It's rather amusing -- in the most disturbing of ways -- to observe such focused infatuation on a politically motivated concoction of absurdities, while they turn a blind eye to the actual and demonstrable cases occurring all around them.

[samhain]

(12-18-2022, 01:55 PM)Lucidus Wrote: The assertions, outrage and vitriol directed at schools / teachers by a certain segment of conservatives is rather befuddling. The grooming conspiracies seem altogether an invention derived from a combination of ignorance, incredulity, intentional misinformation and narrative manipulation. However, the most vile aspect of the "grooming paranoia" is that it's entirely hypocritical and disingenuous at it's core.

Curiously, they do not target nor obsess over actual instances of child abuse, grooming or molestation. Where is the right's condemnation of the Catholic Church, who is still very much embroiled in coverups and investigatory interference -- see the situation in Canada over the past year as a prime example. Where is the righteous indignation over the numerous, ever-increasing cases of protestant clergy being caught possessing child porn? How about the insidious history and continued findings concerning the Boy Scouts of America?

It's rather amusing -- in the most disturbing of ways -- to observe such focused infatuation on a politically motivated concoction of absurdities, while they turn a blind eye to the actual and demonstrable cases occurring all around them.

The right largely hates the public school system and will make up any shit imaginable to discredit it.  Their belief is that education is is solely the right of the rich and privileged.  That is unless, of course the education in question revolves a big money preacher raking in cash for religious speech while indoctrinating kids into  right-wing evangelical servitude.  

A teacher in a public school is an easy mark for the religious mob.  To them they are basically leeches with gubmint jobs indoctrinating their kids all day.  

Preachy-Preach in the megachurch, however, is teflon.  He can tell them how to live their lives all day long, take their hard earned cash, and shame them until time eternal and they'll love him for it.  If he happens to get busted molesting little kids, they will move him and be all forgiving and stuff.  It's quite the double standard.  

For reference, here's the right's handy guide to child sexual predators in relation to politics.  it's complicated but stay with me here:

1. Does the person in question have personal politics that differ from your own in any way whatsoever?  If yes, then they probably molest little kids.  That's what it's come to.  Anyone that disagrees with you is a pedo.  That's where the right has taken this.  

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

I think that we should ban sock puppets and their regular account also. Don't be so chickenshit that you don't want your fake online persona to take a hit so you create another fake persona.

I don't have a ***** mentality so I don't understand this thought process or this need to seek attention.

[Vas Deferens]

(12-18-2022, 03:34 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I think that we should ban sock puppets and their regular account also. Don't be so chickenshit that you don't want your fake online persona to take a hit so you create another fake persona.

I don't have a ***** mentality so I don't understand this thought process or this need to seek attention.

one of the most pathetic existences I can imagine.  

[*Nately120*]

In my lifetime the GOP has gone from catering to college-educated white collar people, to declaring that voluntary college educations are liberal indoctrination, to declaring that any sort of education starting with kindergarten is liberal indoctrination and sexual grooming.

Where do we go from here?  Are republicans just going to go full Amish and declare that any sort of exposure to anything but your family, one specific book, and guns puts you at risk of losing your immortal soul?



With the pedo/groomer stuff, I think this just comes down to the simple idea that the political parties are enemies and the strategy is just "What is the worst thing I can say and convince people the other side is so they back my side?" so that's what leads this charge.

I say this because my cousin was married to a woman who was borderline and nuts and just wanted to hate everyone and her ace in the hole was that she'd say people were pedophiles or she'd threaten that she was going to tell everyone you were a pedophile or she'd threaten if my cousin did something or went somewhere she'd download a bunch of CP on the computer and call the police and say it was his.

it's the absolute worst thing you can say about someone and you can legimately put someone in danger by giving them that label so she would threaten to say it and it would get you to back off because if only 1% of people believe her crazy ass, it's still too many.  It's just abusive and crazy behavior that has been turned into a mainstream political strategy now.

My question is where do things go from here?  When you need to up this ante, where do you go?  There is nothing worse you can convince people that the "other side" is.

90% of the population of minors in the USA attends a form of public school.  This is just the widest and most damningly dangerous net I've ever seen anyone cast.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

I think the stories you hear are far left extreme examples similar to how you hear a lot about far right extreme examples from the other side. Nothing should be taught in school except safe sexual practices for the benefit of hopefully reducing teen pregnancies and keeping potential STD's from spreading to youth when they are stupid and horny. To be fair we pretty much are always stupid and horny til we get old and things stop working I guess lol

[CJD]

If a child learning that transgender people or gay people exist "makes them gay/transgender" the odds are pretty good that the feelings were already there, they just didn't understand what they were.

Teachers aren't grooming children by educating them.

[*Nately120*]

(12-19-2022, 12:54 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If a child learning that transgender people or gay people exist "makes them gay/transgender" the odds are pretty good that the feelings were already there, they just didn't understand what they were.

Teachers aren't grooming children by educating them.

Have we tried just pretending that stuff teachers say falls under "free speech?"  Or is the idea that free speech aimed towards kids is dangerous because they, unlike all the genius adults that make up this country, lack the wisdom and ego control to carefully analyze all viewpoints and possibilities and then come to the most logical and sane conclusion?

[SunsetBengal]

(12-19-2022, 02:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Have we tried just pretending that stuff teachers say falls under "free speech?"  Or is the idea that free speech aimed towards kids is dangerous because they, unlike all the genius adults that make up this country, lack the wisdom and ego control to carefully analyze all viewpoints and possibilities and then come to the most logical and sane conclusion?

Here is a good summary of free speech as it applies in the educational environment.

https://www.concordlawschool.edu/blog/constitutional-law/50-years-student-speech-first-amendment/

As we can clearly see, courts have ventured back and forth on free speech as it pertains to students since the Tinker v Des Moines case, I feel like every time there issues get brought up, it is because we have encountered a situation that previous rulings had not covered or even existed.  With that in mind, I feel like case by case is the best way to interpret and apply legal protections.

So, with your suggestion of just 'pretending that stuff teachers say falls under free speech', I cannot agree.  If we are going to situationally limit free speech as it applies to students in the educational environment, I feel that we must also scrutinize what teachers are saying and what the extent of their 1st amendment protections are, as well.

[*Nately120*]

(12-19-2022, 02:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here is a good summary of free speech as it applies in the educational environment.

https://www.concordlawschool.edu/blog/constitutional-law/50-years-student-speech-first-amendment/

As we can clearly see, courts have ventured back and forth on free speech as it pertains to students since the Tinker v Des Moines case, I feel like every time there issues get brought up, it is because we have encountered a situation that previous rulings had not covered or even existed.  With that in mind, I feel like case by case is the best way to interpret and apply legal protections.

So, with your suggestion of just 'pretending that stuff teachers say falls under free speech', I cannot agree.  If we are going to situationally limit free speech as it applies to students in the educational environment, I feel that we must also scrutinize what teachers are saying and what the extent of their 1st amendment protections are, as well.

Well, the idea too is public school teachers represent the federal government too, in a sense so my comment wasn't really geared towards someone who actually makes a researched response that involves court rulings and shades of grey.

I just want all the news and I'll pick what's real, dadgummit.  Oooh, hot take....ELON MUSK free speech charter school.

I got a C+ in WWII class, but I got an A+ in "Hitler had the right idea 101."