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+---- Thread: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question (/Thread-Transgender-Bathroom-Locker-Room-Question)
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 01:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You find a point you cannot dispute, you just turn it into a different point. Like you have done in your last few replies.
(04-26-2016, 10:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The reason I get the it is OK for dudes to use the womens room is that no one gets hurt and you may never know they are there. Why can't we apply that logic to drunk drivers that do not cause accidents and peeping toms?
Quick run with the "because if there is a DUI accident folks get hurt". If there is an assault incident in a bathroom folks get hurt.
(04-26-2016, 10:59 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Simple answer that you refuse to acknowledge.
Transgenders people are no more potential peeping toms or sexual predators than non-transgender people.
Your analogy fails therefore your entire argument fails.
(04-26-2016, 01:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I did notice you cut off the part of the post for which you have no answer. So you have no issue with a transwoman peeping in the windows of a woman's house?
Why do you always make up a new point out of something said. No where did I say we should treat all folks with mental illnesses the same; I just say there are some we try harder to legitimize; like allowing a dude who feels like a woman to use the ladies room.
(04-26-2016, 10:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: There is no rabbit here; as my stance has not changed.
(04-26-2016, 01:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: WTS, this rabbit has been chased far enough down the hole.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - fredtoast - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 01:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I did notice you cut off the part of the post for which you have no answer. So you have no issue with a transwoman peeping in the windows of a woman's house?
I don't even understand what you are trying to say here.
Of course I have an issue with a transwoman peeping in the windows of a woman's house. I have a problem with anyone peeping in anyones house. But what does that have to do with public showers? Are you saying that a woman in a public shower is having her privacy invaded when another woman sees her?
I really don't understand what point you are trying to make here.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - fredtoast - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 01:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do you always make up a new point out of something said. No where did I say we should treat all folks with mental illnesses the same; I just say there are some we try harder to legitimize; like allowing a dude who feels like a woman to use the ladies room.
And all I did was respond directly to the comment you made.
Why did you make the comment about treating different mental disorders differently if you agreed that was the proper thing to do? What point were you trying to make?
I assume that when we are in the middle of a debate that the points you bring up are things we disagree over. That is the way it works with most people here.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BFritz21 - 04-26-2016
A college girl (21) that I'm friends with on Facebook just posted this:
Quote:So I have been trying to figure out how I feel about this whole target thing. I love trans people, I have many trans friends! I want them to be comfortable as the next person, but as a female, I already worry about a man following me into the bathroom in public areas. Now they have an excuse to, and I don't feel safe at all using target bathrooms. I'll still shop at target, because omg target. but I prolly won't be peeing in their bathrooms.
It's kind of ironic that you (and other people) are using the platform of personal freedom as your basis for this, yet what about people's freedoms who know what sex they are?
How many other women do you think feel this way? Is it ok to have them live in fear or even put them in danger because some dudes think they're women?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Belsnickel - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 04:20 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: A college girl (21) that I'm friends with on Facebook just posted this:
It's kind of ironic that you (and other people) are using the platform of personal freedom as your basis for this, yet what about people's freedoms who know what sex they are?
How many other women do you think feel this way? Is it ok to have them live in fear or even put them in danger because some dudes think they're women?
Her logic is flawed. She is already fearful of being followed by a man into the restroom. So that fear has not changed. If a biological male follows her in to attack her or peep on her or for any reason other than to use the bathroom as a transwoman then Target's policy does not protect them and neither does any law allowing trans people to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with. So their policy changes nothing for her and her perceived issues with safety are illogical.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Griever - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 04:20 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: A college girl (21) that I'm friends with on Facebook just posted this:
It's kind of ironic that you (and other people) are using the platform of personal freedom as your basis for this, yet what about people's freedoms who know what sex they are?
How many other women do you think feel this way? Is it ok to have them live in fear or even put them in danger because some dudes think they're women?
i love the ol "i have -insert type of person here- friends and i love -insert type of person here-"
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - fredtoast - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 04:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Her logic is flawed. She is already fearful of being followed by a man into the restroom. So that fear has not changed. If a biological male follows her in to attack her or peep on her or for any reason other than to use the bathroom as a transwoman then Target's policy does not protect them and neither does any law allowing trans people to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with. So their policy changes nothing for her and her perceived issues with safety are illogical.
This has been repeated over and over again, but some people just don't get it.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BFritz21 - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 04:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Her logic is flawed. She is already fearful of being followed by a man into the restroom. So that fear has not changed. If a biological male follows her in to attack her or peep on her or for any reason other than to use the bathroom as a transwoman then Target's policy does not protect them and neither does any law allowing trans people to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with. So their policy changes nothing for her and her perceived issues with safety are illogical.
Changes nothing, huh?
So employees seeing a big burly man following a woman into the women's restroom doesn't raise any red flags? They wouldn't call security or start yelling to get everyone ascending on the bathroom to protect the woman?
However, now he dresses like a woman and has free access with no one raising a fuss. See the difference?
(04-26-2016, 04:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This has been repeated over and over again, but some people just don't get it.
Unless you look at it in real situations.
Everything is easy to fit your narrative when you have an agenda, but see above for why that's false.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - fredtoast - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 05:12 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Changes nothing, huh?
So employees seeing a big burly man following a woman into the women's restroom doesn't raise any red flags? They wouldn't call security or start yelling to get everyone ascending on the bathroom to protect the woman?
However, now he dresses like a woman and has free access with no one raising a fuss. See the difference?
No I don't see any difference at all.
If a man wanted to sexually assault a woman in a public restroom he could already dress like a woman and go in the ladies room.
The law changes absolutely nothing.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 05:12 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Unless you look at it in real situations.
Everything is easy to fit your narrative when you have an agenda, but see above for why that's false.
Unless they are not real and merely hypotheticals.
(04-26-2016, 05:12 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Everything is easy to fit your narrative when you have an agenda, but see above for why that's false.
See above why that is an ironic statement.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BFritz21 - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No I don't see any difference at all.
If a man wanted to sexually assault a woman in a public restroom he could already dress like a woman and go in the ladies room.
The law changes absolutely nothing.
Once again, making things up to fit your narrative.
You might not always be able to tell, but let's say the person is obviously a man with facial hair and just everything that makes it obvious that they're a man.
Now, with this law, he'll be able to do it with no problem. so your assertion that it changes nothing is very incorrect.
(04-26-2016, 05:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: Unless they are not real and merely hypotheticals.Real situations that have not happened yet, not just some hypotheticals that have no chance of actually happening, and that's the difference, but, as I said, it's the typical type of argument that defenders of this would use.
(04-26-2016, 05:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: See above why that is an ironic statement.See above for why it's not.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Benton - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No I don't see any difference at all.
If a man wanted to sexually assault a woman in a public restroom he could already dress like a woman and go in the ladies room.
The law changes absolutely nothing.
There's only one answer.
A law isn't going to stop sex offenders (which is what people are actually talking about, as someone who is transgender isn't there to assault anyone, their just looking to drop a log) anymore than a gun law is going to stop a criminal from harming someone. But you know what will stop the sex offender? Castration.
I think NC didn't go far enough. It needs to pass a law call for castration of all males 12 years of age and older. That will stop sex offenders. The male ones, anyway, which seems to be all anyone is concerned with.
Carolina — the castration state!
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 05:31 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Real situations that have not happened yet, not just some hypotheticals that have no chance of actually happening, and that's the difference, but, as I said, it's the typical type of argument that defenders of this would use.
Those are hypotheticals...whether they can happen has nothing to do with it.
(04-26-2016, 05:31 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: See above for why it's not.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - fredtoast - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 05:31 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:
Once again, making things up to fit your narrative.
You might not always be able to tell, but let's say the person is obviously a man with facial hair and just everything that makes it obvious that they're a man.
Now, with this law, he'll be able to do it with no problem. so your assertion that it changes nothing is very incorrect.
The law changes nothing because right now any man could dress like a woman in order to follow a woman into a public restroom and sexually assault her.
You are not seriously going to argue that the only reason no man has ever done it is because he is not willing to shave are you? That is a ridiculous argument even for you.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Belsnickel - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 05:12 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Changes nothing, huh?
So employees seeing a big burly man following a woman into the women's restroom doesn't raise any red flags? They wouldn't call security or start yelling to get everyone ascending on the bathroom to protect the woman?
However, now he dresses like a woman and has free access with no one raising a fuss. See the difference?
Nope. One, I have never met a transwoman, a legit transwoman, that just looked like a big burly dude in a dress and a wig. Two, I've never been in a Target where an employee has a good view of the restrooms anyway.
Let's get down to the real world stuff, here. If someone is going to sexually assault another person in the bathroom after following them in there, they are going to go in, make sure no one else is around, and pounce immediately. There is not a store I have ever been in, let alone a Target, that would be able to prevent a man dressed as a man from entering the women's room. So a man dressed as a woman with or without the policy makes no difference. On top of all of this, restrooms in stores like Target aren't the typical choice for sexual predators. They are well lit and highly trafficked and while not in eyesight, they are very near employees that can hear a scream easily. They especially won't follow a woman into the women's room because they are even more likely to encounter a problem. They are much more likely to pull a woman into the family restroom.
But hey, this is just based on real world scenarios.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 05:31 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:
Once again, making things up to fit your narrative.
You might not always be able to tell, but let's say the person is obviously a man with facial hair and just everything that makes it obvious that they're a man.
Now, with this law, he'll be able to do it with no problem. so your assertion that it changes nothing is very incorrect.
Real situations that have not happened yet, not just some hypotheticals that have no chance of actually happening, and that's the difference, but, as I said, it's the typical type of argument that defenders of this would use.
Folks will tell you that you shouldn't focus on this as there are laws in place to protect anyone assaulted in a bathroom and with the same mouth they will say we need these transgender laws because there is a chance a trans may get assaulted in a bathroom.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 06:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks will tell you that you shouldn't focus on this as there are laws in place to protect anyone assaulted in a bathroom and with the same mouth they will say we need these transgender laws because there is a chance a trans may get assaulted in a bathroom.
Sooooo....are you Fred or me now?
Or both?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Benton - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 06:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks will tell you that you shouldn't focus on this as there are laws in place to protect anyone assaulted in a bathroom and with the same mouth they will say we need these transgender laws because there is a chance a trans may get assaulted in a bathroom.
I dont see a need for a law either way. Not having one allows courts flexibility to address either side of the issue. Unfortunately, lawmakers seem to think judges and juries are all incompetent and unable to consider each case individually.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 07:58 PM)Benton Wrote: I dont see a need for a law either way. Not having one allows courts flexibility to address either side of the issue. Unfortunately, lawmakers seem to think judges and juries are all incompetent and unable to consider each case individually.
Just like it should not have taken a law to allow blacks to use the same water fountains as whites, or to allow gay couples to get married, or any other time a law was required for people to be treated as equals.
But some people will say there is no need for the law while using the same mouth to say they don't think transgender people should be allowed in the bathroom they are dressed for and use the same mouth to say they don't really care but use the same mouth to argue for weeks about it.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 04-26-2016
(04-26-2016, 07:58 PM)Benton Wrote: I dont see a need for a law either way. Not having one allows courts flexibility to address either side of the issue. Unfortunately, lawmakers seem to think judges and juries are all incompetent and unable to consider each case individually.
This is what I've been saying from giddy up. Folks on both sides of the argument already admit there are laws in place to protect folks against lewd acts, assault, ect.... If you go in the bathroom and act up you are subject to punishment.