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RE: Coronavirus - bfine32 - 05-19-2020
(05-19-2020, 06:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He'll have a tough time trying to unseat Kobach. Not sure what all the uproar about the use of HCQ is all about. I heard a physician on the radio saying how he's prescribed it to patients for other reasons, for over 40 years, without a single incident of a patient needing hospitalization as a result of taking the HCQ as prescribed.
I'm sure why it is.
If Trump where to come out and say I'm taking Vitamin D because I've heard good things. There's no proof but what could it hurt...The reaction would be exactly the same.
"Great we're gonna run out of Vitamin D. Stupid POTUS!!"Of course I could be misrepresenting.
Folks that use Trump as their doctor have a lot more problems than HCQ.
On a positive note I heard a real DR talking on the radio yesterday and he said we are close to a blood test that can provide results in about 20 minutes. He absolutely hate the test (nose swap) we use now. He says this is possible because of lifting restrictions like he's never seen. He also said by the underrepresented advances that have been made in this research he expects (just his "gut") they will have a vaccine by JAN 21.
The dude seemed to have no political bias and he was on NFL Radio talking to PK and Jim Miller.
These are the things we should be talking about: The virus and good folks talking about working toward a fix; unfortunately, it's not the way we're built in here. Breech is trying.
RE: Coronavirus - SunsetBengal - 05-19-2020
(05-19-2020, 09:48 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That’s a vaccine.
It seems that one is definitely in the works. However, are vaccines even a real safety net? I mean, every year untold millions of people get the flu vaccine, yet every year it seems like a lot of people die, because of a "new strain". It's already been mentioned that coronavirus is mutating into different strains. With that in mind, how do we ever resume normal life?
We don't shut down society over the flu every year. If this becomes another common virus that comes around every year, we'll just have to learn how to deal with it.
RE: Coronavirus - GMDino - 05-19-2020
(05-19-2020, 09:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure why it is.
If Trump where to come out and say I'm taking Vitamin D because I've heard good things. There's no proof but what could it hurt...The reaction would be exactly the same.
"Great we're gonna run out of Vitamin D. Stupid POTUS!!"Of course I could be misrepresenting.
Folks that use Trump as their doctor have a lot more problems than HCQ.
On a positive note I heard a real DR talking on the radio yesterday and he said we are close to a blood test that can provide results in about 20 minutes. He absolutely hate the test (nose swap) we use now. He says this is possible because of lifting restrictions like he's never seen. He also said by the underrepresented advances that have been made in this research he expects (just his "gut") they will have a vaccine by JAN 21.
The dude seemed to have no political bias and he was on NFL Radio talking to PK and Jim Miller.
These are the things we should be talking about: The virus and good folks talking about working toward a fix; unfortunately, it's not the way we're built in here. Breech is trying.
Your TDS is showing.
What Trump is taking (if he is) is not something we already know about that would help with the virus that he doesn't have.
There are multiple issues with his inane statement, none of which are "Orange man bad".
"Rise above the politics" and see that.
On the other note I do hope the vaccine is found sooner rather than later and that they can see if it lasts or if we need two doses or if we need a new one every season. And hopefully the people who say they will refuse to get it because they don't want the government implanting chips in them learn something between now and then.
There is nothing wrong with pointing out that the POTUS is still hawking an unproven drug and downplaying any studies that show it may cause harm. Nothing wrong with that at all. Because capable people can still discuss that AND the ongoing search for a vaccine and better medical treatments and mitigation methods.
Multiple conversations on a multitude of topics concerning the virus...but some would rather make sure they are
Too funny.
RE: Coronavirus - jason - 05-19-2020
(05-19-2020, 09:48 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That’s a vaccine.
And we’ve reached the point of the discussion where Trump is taking a drug with real adverse affects without proven benefits because of a fake media driven plandemic caused by a “viruse” (virus + ruse) in the hope of a real placebo effect.
I couldn’t make that shit up if I tried.
To your first sentence... About a month or so ago I heard the guy who discovered the link between HIV and AIDS in the 80s. He was kicking around the idea of bringing back the polio vaccine to fire up (what he was referring to) our innate immune response. He was basically thinking that could buy us maybe a year or so's worth of time til they could find a vaccine. Sound realistic to you?
RE: Coronavirus - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 05-19-2020
(05-19-2020, 09:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It seems that one is definitely in the works. However, are vaccines even a real safety net? I mean, every year untold millions of people get the flu vaccine, yet every year it seems like a lot of people die, because of a "new strain". It's already been mentioned that coronavirus is mutating into different strains. With that in mind, how do we ever resume normal life?
We don't shut down society over the flu every year. If this becomes another common virus that comes around every year, we'll just have to learn how to deal with it.
Vaccines are one of the great public health victories over infectious disease.
I’ve looked at the epidemiology of vaccine preventable disease before and after vaccination programs in the US and abroad and the incidence, prevalence, morbidity, and mortality was reduced across the board after the vaccination programs began.
When a properly tested and vetted vaccine is available I will get one and I will recommend my family gets vaccinated also.
No vaccine is 100% effective, but if enough people get vaccinated we can achieve heard immunity as an additional level of protection to the actual vaccines.
Overall, vaccines have been so successful it has made it difficult for current healthcare providers to recognize what use to be common childhood illnesses because they have become relatively rare. For example, mumps has dropped from 200K cases in the US annually to about 200. Or maybe 4 people in each state each year. That’s pretty rare.
So vaccines which prevent people from getting sick and further spreading infectious diseases to others and are effective in the vast majority of people who receive them are the best safety net we have.
RE: Coronavirus - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 05-19-2020
(05-19-2020, 10:19 PM)jason Wrote: To your first sentence... About a month or so ago I heard the guy who discovered the link between HIV and AIDS in the 80s. He was kicking around the idea of bringing back the polio vaccine to fire up (what he was referring to) our innate immune response. He was basically thinking that could buy us maybe a year or so's worth of time til they could find a vaccine. Sound realistic to you?
I would need more detail to comment further, but I’m kinda skeptical. We are already challenging our innate immune response with our current vaccination schedule that includes the polio vaccine in its current form. Vaccines based immunity involve an antigen and antibody interaction similar to a lock and a key. If your body is producing the wrong key it won’t work. I’m sure whom ever you were listening to knows that which leads me to believe I’m missing some important information that would help me understand what they were suggesting.
RE: Coronavirus - jason - 05-19-2020
(05-19-2020, 10:32 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I would need more detail to comment further, but I’m kinda skeptical. We are already challenging our innate immune response with our current vaccination schedule that includes the polio vaccine in its current form. Vaccines based immunity involve an antigen and antibody interaction similar to a lock and a key. If your body is producing the wrong key it won’t work. I’m sure whom ever you were listening to knows that which leads me to believe I’m missing some important information that would help me understand what they were suggesting.
Yes... Truth be told I was watching him on PBS late night after a few refreshments in the thick of a stay at home order... And it was at least a month ago. I know he was dumbing it down for the common folk, but he did go into some detail.
RE: Coronavirus - Benton - 05-20-2020
(05-19-2020, 09:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure why it is.
If Trump where to come out and say I'm taking Vitamin D because I've heard good things. There's no proof but what could it hurt...The reaction would be exactly the same.
Taking a recommended dose of vitamin d may boost your immune system.
Taking a prescribed dose of hcq may cause
- headache, dizziness;
- nausea, vomiting, stomach pain;
- loss of appetite, weight loss;
- feeling nervous or irritable;
- skin rash or itching; or.
- hair loss
RE: Coronavirus - bfine32 - 05-20-2020
(05-20-2020, 12:41 AM)Benton Wrote: Taking a recommended dose of vitamin d may boost your immune system.Well hell, they should require a prescription for that hcq stuff.......wait a minute..
Taking a prescribed dose of hcq may cause
- headache, dizziness;
- nausea, vomiting, stomach pain;
- loss of appetite, weight loss;
- feeling nervous or irritable;
- skin rash or itching; or.
- hair loss
None of that changes the point made. Why do you think there's an uproar about hcq? Cause it makes you irratable? Honesty would be cool.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-929/vitamin-d
Quote:Some side effects of taking too much vitamin D include weakness, fatigue, sleepiness, headache, loss of appetite, dry mouth, metallic taste, nausea, vomiting, and others. Taking vitamin D for long periods of time in doses higher than 4000 units daily is POSSIBLY UNSAFE and may cause excessively high levels of calcium in the blood.
RE: Coronavirus - hollodero - 05-20-2020
(05-20-2020, 12:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well hell, they should require a prescription for that hcq stuff.......wait a minute..
None of that changes the point made. Why do you think there's an uproar about hcq? Cause it makes you irratable? Honesty would be cool.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-929/vitamin-d
To me, it is about setting an awful example regarding voodoo self-medication.
In a sense, Trump saying I take vitamin D to be safe from corona would be similarly worthy of critizism.
--- A president recommending a drug that doctors and medical experts explicitely do not recommend. How does that not sound bad, in any case or for any president.
RE: Coronavirus - Benton - 05-20-2020
(05-19-2020, 07:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The issue with taking the drug is that it isn't verified that it has any real efficacy for COVID-19. Meanwhile, there are people that actually need it for malaria treatments, so this could result in shortages of the drug for what we absolutely know it is good for.
(05-19-2020, 08:06 PM)Benton Wrote: As Matt said, this could lead to a shortage for people who actually need it. To add, there's also a danger in a false sense of security. Like people who think they can cure their cancer with a tea spoon of cider vinegar and a dash of tumeric. Then they die of cancer.
Hcq may treat covid. Or it may just make people think it's treating covid while they walk around getting and spreading exposure.
(05-20-2020, 12:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: None of that changes the point made. Why do you think there's an uproar about hcq?
If he'd said he's taking insulin ... Which could potentially cause a run on insulin and increase the costs for diabetics who would die without it... Would that make more sense? We don't typically see malaria as a problem because when was the last time someone in your neighborhood got malaria? But for those who may need the drug, it's a big deal for it's costs to suddenly skyrocket or for the supply to dry up.
Plus, if it does nothing for covid, then people are potentially spreading it because they think they're immune.
RE: Coronavirus - Dill - 05-20-2020
(05-19-2020, 08:59 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The optics are horrendous. The President has claimed for weeks that this drug does something that has not been proven and could make things worse. He is now freely sharing, knowing the ramifications, that he is taking the drug for a different purpose that is even more unproven (as a preventative).
You are out of the loop Bpat.
Dr. Tucker Carlson may have been the one who first put Trump on to hydroxchorawhatever, but Laura has had two doctors on her show, whom she calls her "medicine cabinet," and both claim wonders for this long known drug and, thanks to her, were able to speak directly to Trump.
https://www.salon.com/2020/05/08/hydroxychloroquine-truther-laura-ingraham-who-is-not-a-doctor-begs-trump-to-overturn-fdas-warning/
Fox News host Laura Ingraham, who has publicly acknowledged her lack of medical expertise, made a personal appeal to President Donald Trump on her broadcast to "pull back" a "misguided" FDA warning about an unproven drug treatment for the new coronavirus.
"We now have multiple studies across the globe and reports from treating physicians regarding the safety and efficacy of hydroxychloroquine," Ingraham during a Wednesday segment. "Along with hundreds of thousands of lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients who've been taking the drug for decades without complications. Time for the FDA — the president himself — to pull back on the misguided and unnecessary warning that was issued a few weeks ago."
I think "multiple" means one here, a French guy named Didiet Raoult. I guess a lot of doctors question his study on methodological and ethical grounds, but I like him and so does Trump.
At least three different Fox commentators have now validated claims for this drug.
RE: Coronavirus - Dill - 05-20-2020
(05-20-2020, 12:41 AM)Benton Wrote: Taking a recommended dose of vitamin d may boost your immune system.
Taking a prescribed dose of hcq may cause
- headache, dizziness;
- nausea, vomiting, stomach pain;
- loss of appetite, weight loss;
- feeling nervous or irritable;
- skin rash or itching; or.
- hair loss
Should be added that COVID 19 seems to some stress internal organs greatly.
That means that someone who had no ill effects from HCQ when healthy, like someone taking it for arthritis, might suffer organ failure if taking this "cure" with a 103 fever and clogged up lungs.
That would make many "irritable."
RE: Coronavirus - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 05-20-2020
(05-19-2020, 09:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure why it is.
If Trump where to come out and say I'm taking Vitamin D because I've heard good things. There's no proof but what could it hurt...The reaction would be exactly the same.
"Great we're gonna run out of Vitamin D. Stupid POTUS!!"Of course I could be misrepresenting.
Folks that use Trump as their doctor have a lot more problems than HCQ.
On a positive note I heard a real DR talking on the radio yesterday and he said we are close to a blood test that can provide results in about 20 minutes. He absolutely hate the test (nose swap) we use now. He says this is possible because of lifting restrictions like he's never seen. He also said by the underrepresented advances that have been made in this research he expects (just his "gut") they will have a vaccine by JAN 21.
The dude seemed to have no political bias and he was on NFL Radio talking to PK and Jim Miller.
These are the things we should be talking about: The virus and good folks talking about working toward a fix; unfortunately, it's not the way we're built in here. Breech is trying.
Maybe it’s because he tells lie after lie after lie about it. Maybe it’s because he is promoting a drug without any credentials to do so despite the objections of those with actual medical credentials. Maybe it is because the FDA has stated don’t take it in an outpatient setting. Maybe it’s because the doctor he claimed gave it to him wrote a memorandum stating “we concluded” the risks outweigh any benefit multiple times. That’s doctor speak, “STFU with your stupid BS.” A provider shouldn’t write a prescription when the risk outweighs the benefits and there is a complete lack of evidence of efficacy just because a patient asks. And that memo doesn’t state he prescribed the hydroxychloroaquine so I’m not sure if Trump is taking it or this is just another one of his lies.
So I guess I have to concede your point; yeah, Trump. Because no other president has been this dishonest and stupid to push a drug that both he and his doctor concluded isn’t f’n appropriate and the FDA publicly and specifically said don’t do it.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/trump-comments-on-hydroxychloroquine-as-treatment-for-coronavirus-fact-checked-by-malaria-expert-003056251.html
RE: Coronavirus - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 05-20-2020
(05-20-2020, 01:38 AM)hollodero Wrote: To me, it is about setting an awful example regarding voodoo self-medication.
In a sense, Trump saying I take vitamin D to be safe from corona would be similarly worthy of critizism.
--- A president recommending a drug that doctors and medical experts explicitely do not recommend. How does that not sound bad, in any case or for any president.
Same answer bfine gave; because it’s Trump. So this we’ll defend.
RE: Coronavirus - Dill - 05-20-2020
(05-20-2020, 01:38 AM)hollodero Wrote: To me, it is about setting an awful example regarding voodoo self-medication.
In a sense, Trump saying I take vitamin D to be safe from corona would be similarly worthy of critizism.
--- A president recommending a drug that doctors and medical experts explicitely do not recommend. How does that not sound bad, in any case or for any president.
Of course. To you librals EVERYTHING Trump does is worthy of criticizism.
Whether he simply recommends researching the medical potential for bleach injections, or withdraws support from WHO during a pandemic, or purges doctors who question HCQ effectiveness, or sets the Federal gov to bidding against states for medical supplies or tells us it'll all be over by summer--to the MSM and people like you everything he does is just wrong. Like all this would be really bad if ANY president did it.
So OF COURSE there will be a big outcry when Tucker and Laura do an end run around the medical establishment and FDA (AKA the medical arm of the "deep state") to present the president with a Fox pandemic policy option and Trump's instinct says "Yeah, sounds good! Anything to get the economy going again!"
Trump haters just gonna hate.
RE: Coronavirus - Benton - 05-20-2020
(05-20-2020, 04:26 AM)Dill Wrote: Should be added that COVID 19 seems to some stress internal organs greatly.
That means that someone who had no ill effects from HCQ when healthy, like someone taking it for arthritis, might suffer organ failure if taking this "cure" with a 103 fever and clogged up lungs.
That would make many "irritable."
According to my wife (who knows everything, but I'll give her a pass because she actually is a nurse), things like covid attack all of you. Heart, lungs, brain, etc. So if you have a pre-existing condition, it could make it worse. So, while it attacks some areas worse, it can make already worse areas worser.
So if HCQ puts an unnecessary strain on on organ or system, then it could weaken a normally healthy organ or system if a person gets corona'ed. But, honestly, I don't know if HCQ has any of those concerns. I don't know that much about the drug. Outside of the fact that there's no evidence it does anything for corona and is needed for treatment of malaria.
RE: Coronavirus - Belsnickel - 05-20-2020
(05-20-2020, 04:43 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Maybe it’s because he tells lie after lie after lie about it. Maybe it’s because he is promoting a drug without any credentials to do so despite the objections of those with actual medical credentials. Maybe it is because the FDA has stated don’t take it in an outpatient setting. Maybe it’s because the doctor he claimed gave it to him wrote a memorandum stating “we concluded” the risks outweigh any benefit multiple times. That’s doctor speak, “STFU with your stupid BS.” A provider shouldn’t write a prescription when the risk outweighs the benefits and there is a complete lack of evidence of efficacy just because a patient asks. And that memo doesn’t state he prescribed the hydroxychloroaquine so I’m not sure if Trump is taking it or this is just another one of his lies.
So I guess I have to concede your point; yeah, Trump. Because no other president has been this dishonest and stupid to push a drug that both he and his doctor concluded isn’t f’n appropriate and the FDA publicly and specifically said don’t do it.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/trump-comments-on-hydroxychloroquine-as-treatment-for-coronavirus-fact-checked-by-malaria-expert-003056251.html
You may want to re-read the memo from the WH physician. He states the "the potential benefits outweighed the relative risks."
RE: Coronavirus - Belsnickel - 05-20-2020
In case anyone is curious about hydrochloroquine and how things are going: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT04370782
I have a tendency to favor data and science, which apparently means I just dislike things Trump says and does because it's Trump, so this is an interesting thing to keep an eye on for the clinical trials of the treatment.
I'm also fairly certain this will be locked down for anyone lacking a subscription to the journal, but here it is: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0883944120303907
"A systematic review on the efficacy and safety of chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19"
Quote:Abstract
Purpose
COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) is a public health emergency of international concern. As of this time, there is no known effective pharmaceutical treatment, although it is much needed for patient contracting the severe form of the disease. The aim of this systematic review was to summarize the evidence regarding chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19.
Methods
PubMed, EMBASE, and three trial Registries were searched for studies on the use of chloroquine in patients with COVID-19.
Results
We included six articles (one narrative letter, one in-vitro study, one editorial, expert consensus paper, two national guideline documents) and 23 ongoing clinical trials in China. Chloroquine seems to be effective in limiting the replication of SARS-CoV-2 (virus causing COVID-19) in vitro.
Conclusions
There is rationale, pre-clinical evidence of effectiveness and evidence of safety from long-time clinical use for other indications to justify clinical research on chloroquine in patients with COVID-19. However, clinical use should either adhere to the Monitored Emergency Use of Unregistered Interventions (MEURI) framework or be ethically approved as a trial as stated by the World Health Organization. Safety data and data from high-quality clinical trials are urgently needed.
RE: Coronavirus - GMDino - 05-20-2020
(05-20-2020, 12:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well hell, they should require a prescription for that hcq stuff.......wait a minute..
None of that changes the point made. Why do you think there's an uproar about hcq? Cause it makes you irratable? Honesty would be cool.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-929/vitamin-d
Some side effects of taking too much vitamin D include weakness, fatigue, sleepiness, headache, loss of appetite, dry mouth, metallic taste, nausea, vomiting, and others. Taking vitamin D for long periods of time in doses higher than 4000 units daily is POSSIBLY UNSAFE and may cause excessively high levels of calcium in the blood.
Not a prescribed amount. For your example to be even close to good DJT would have said he takes three or four times the RDA of Vitamin D because "what have you got to lose" and the adding that the side effects are fake because the people in the tests must have been anti-Trump.