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+---- Thread: Covington High School Issue (/Thread-Covington-High-School-Issue)
RE: Covington High School Issue - GMDino - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 12:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: The original video looked very bad? Please tell me how a child standing there and having a drum beat in his face looks "very bad"?
Especially when you consider that it was clear that the elder had approached him and not the other way around.
The original video was presented by the fake site that originally shared it as the boys went o the NA and surrounded him. That lead to the impression that the smile was more of a smirk.
The video is the video. The "facts" presented with it made it look bad.
Further videos showed that was not the case. Even more videos showed that the Hebrews started the confrontation, the students enabled it and responded to it because their chaperones did not act like adults and that Phillips thought he was interjecting himself into what he saw as a tense situation which in the end made things worse as the boys were already wound up and acting like teenage boys with little supervision will do.
Now, some do not believe Phillips when he says what his motives were but believe the boys when they say they were not being disrespectful. Perhaps they have a secretly super power where they can tell truth from fiction better than anyone else can. I don't know.
What I do know is that this was nothing. None of it except the Hebrews yelling at the kids. If the kids had walked away or not engaged none of the rest would have happened. But they are teenage boys, full of testosterone and brains that think they are smarter than they are, and no adults stepped in and told them to stop yelling back as it was just making things worse. Why did that happen? I don't know that either. I could propose that the adults, parents of these students I assume...perhaps teachers too, the adults may be of a mindset that they had "win" the argument. Or that they too are smarter than anyone else and they should let children engage verbally with a small group yelling from the corner rather without fear of any escalation of the event.
Personally I would not have chosen that option. They did and there have been consequences. Namely the videos showing the boys hopping and chanting and laughing and smirking. All innocent in and of themselves and all "look bad" out of context.
Plenty of blame to go around. Although I am well aware that different segments of society (and this board) have already chosen to blame one side or the other.
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 12:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: The original video looked very bad? Please tell me how a child standing there and having a drum beat in his face looks "very bad"?
Especially when you consider that it was clear that the elder had approached him and not the other way around.
The original video did not show who approached whom.
The original video showed one old Native American surrounded by a crowd of teenage boys mocking his chant, yelling, and making racist gestures like the tomahawk chop.
And the kid in front of the Native American had the smuggest shit-eating smirk anyone had ever seen.
I think everyone agrees that the original video was deceptive, but if you don't think the original video looked bad then you don't understand this issue at all.
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 01:42 AM)Beaker Wrote: Nobody got away with anything.
What was done to the boys as punishment for mocking the Native American's religious chant and doing the tomahawk chop. What did the school do? What have the parents done? Seems to me they are now all on the side of all the people here who claim the boys did nothing wrong.
RE: Covington High School Issue - Dill - 01-29-2019
(01-28-2019, 09:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It’s not critical or analytical. They chose a side and wrote accordingly. Did either of them give any accountability to Phillips? You can’t possibly think these are critical and analytic. Defending Sandmann is hyper political right wing manipulation. Defending Phillips is critical and analytic.
I am at work right now and won't get to this till this evening. But I do want to say now that this is exactly the way to pose a question to my claims about the critical/analytical qualities of the articles I posted--especially concerning whether and/or how sides are "pre-chosen" in these matters. So good on you for that.
I think that all arguments which include or are based upon an appeal to values have to begin that way. (I have not seen any exceptions to this rule, anyway.) But this does not, in itself, vitiate them as arguments or portend a vicious circle. The question is what happens in the argument itself, how reflexive and logically consistent it is, how it does or does not take evidence into account.
Back in 8 hrs.
RE: Covington High School Issue - BFritz21 - 01-29-2019
And the kids backs were to the monument, meaning that he HAD TO HAVE APPROACHED THEM!!!!
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 01:32 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: ..
The kids WERE NOT SURROUNDING HIM!
The kids surrounding him thought they were playing along,
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 01:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: And the kids backs were to the monument, meaning that he HAD TO HAVE APPROACHED THEM!!!!
This is getting ridiculous. The young men were clearly on some steps that could be accessed from any direction.
But I don't think you could even see that in the original video. Nothing in the original video showed who approached whom. It was just a bunch of kids yelling and mocking a Native American. Everyone here agrees that it was deceptive, but it clearly shows the young men mocking the Native.
RE: Covington High School Issue - BFritz21 - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 01:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote:
Why’d you ignore the rest of my post? And I didn’t mean they were surrounding him, but I was so angry that I misspoke nether kids on the side of him thought they were playing along. They weren’t mocking or surrounding him.
RE: Covington High School Issue - BFritz21 - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 01:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is getting ridiculous. The young men were clearly on some steps that could be accessed from any direction.
But I don't think you could even see that in the original video. Nothing in the original video showed who approached whom. It was just a bunch of kids yelling and mocking a Native American. Everyone here agrees that it was deceptive, but it clearly shows the young men mocking the Native.
Why would they all have walked in a group anywhere, much-less sideways or from the monument?
Actually, I believe the news stories even said that they were waiting on their bus.
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 02:36 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Why would they all have walked in a group anywhere, much-less sideways or from the monument?
When you look at the original photo no one cares if they drove, walked, or rode bicycles. All they can tell, is that a group of young men are surrounding a Native American shouting, chanting, and mocking him.
Like I said, we all agree that the original video was deceptive, but it shows the young men being rude and offensive.
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 02:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Why’d you ignore the rest of my post?
Because I was just pointing out that you completely contradicted yourself.
RE: Covington High School Issue - Benton - 01-29-2019
As a reminder, keep things from getting personal . Anyone calling anyone a liar will be suspended. Anyone claiming someone else's motive of interpretation will be suspended.
RE: Covington High School Issue - bfine32 - 01-29-2019
Are FSU fans or Atlanta Braves fans disrespectful when they do the Tomahawk chop?
RE: Covington High School Issue - Benton - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 06:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are FSU fans or Atlanta Braves fans disrespectful when they do the Tomahawk chop?
Depends.
Are they doing it at one individual while saying potentially inflammatory things?
Context.
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 06:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are FSU fans or Atlanta Braves fans disrespectful when they do the Tomahawk chop?
Who cares?
Are church members being disrespectful when they kneel?
The context is what matters. These boys were doing the chop to mock a real Native American to his face.
RE: Covington High School Issue - bfine32 - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 06:34 PM)Benton Wrote: Depends.
Are they doing it at one individual while saying potentially inflammatory things?
Context.
What were the boys saying?
We have no idea if the kid's motives were to be disrespectful or join in using a gesture they've seen used at sporting events. Context.
Easy for an adult to say "mocking" especially if they have an agenda.
RE: Covington High School Issue - BFritz21 - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 03:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When you look at the original photo no one cares if they drove, walked, or rode bicycles. All they can tell, is that a group of young men are surrounding a Native American shouting, chanting, and mocking him.You can see in the original video that there was a group elevated directly behind the child, making it impossible for Nick to have approached him.
Like I said, we all agree that the original video was deceptive, but it shows the young men being rude and offensive.
There was two, maybe three kids doing the chop, which, while offensive, they thought they were just playing along with Phillips, and there were more kids humming along with the beat, which you'll find a way to make offensive, and the chanting was just something that the kids of the school always do for school spirit, but there wasn't even much of that.
Also, most of the kids stop after a fifteen or twenty seconds.
He approached the teens and put himself in the middle of a group of teens that was cheering and energetic, so it's not like they all the sudden just swarmed to a group mentality and surrounded him. They were just as energetic when they chanted "load up the bus," at the end, which isn't on the original video.
(01-29-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because I was just pointing out that you completely contradicted yourself.
False. You had no answer so you just nitpicked at a point that I already proved was a false claim by you (more than once) and I mistyped this time around.
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 07:15 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You can see in the original video that there was a group elevated directly behind the child, making it impossible for Nick to have approached him.
Why was it impossible for Nick to walk down steps?
(01-29-2019, 07:15 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: False. You had no answer so you just nitpicked at a point that I already proved was a false claim by you (more than once) and I mistyped this time around.
Sorry, but you must be talking about a different "original video" than me. Perhaps you could post it because the one everyone else seems to be talking about shows that the students are surrounding Mr Phillips. I am sorry for any misunderstanding, but if you have a version of the original video that shows that the young men were not surrounding him then please post it. Here is the one I am talking about.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1845000/Video-Kentucky-high-schoolers-MAGA-hats-mock-Native-American-protestor.html
RE: Covington High School Issue - Beaker - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 10:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What was done to the boys as punishment for mocking the Native American's religious chant and doing the tomahawk chop. What did the school do? What have the parents done? Seems to me they are now all on the side of all the people here who claim the boys did nothing wrong.
What was done to punish the NA for pounding his drum up in the boy's face after walking into the group and creating a confrontation?
What was done to punish the black isrealites for hurling racial insults?
All three of those groups....the boys, the NAs and the black islrealites....have people who were angry at what they did. None of those groups "got away" with anything. Therefore, no privilege involved.
RE: Covington High School Issue - Vas Deferens - 01-29-2019
(01-29-2019, 05:40 PM)Benton Wrote: As a reminder, keep things from getting personal . Anyone calling anyone a liar will be suspended. Anyone claiming someone else's motive of interpretation will be suspended.
![[Image: DaringShamefulEarthworm-max-1mb.gif]](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DaringShamefulEarthworm-max-1mb.gif)