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RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Nately120 - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 01:38 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Shocked

Not that hard to believe. I wasn't a Republican or anything because they were all about social conservatism, Jesus government, and war but I had major "what about us straight white guys?" energy.  I was young, selfish, and didn't have a real world perspective yet. 

I bought into that Idea that people like me were going to get a raw deal because everyone was into promoting everything I wasn't.  Eventually I realized promoting what I'm not doesn't mean demoting what I am. As I built my own self confidence and personal and professional resume I stopped looking for others to "make things fair" for me.

I wasn't exactly "where is white history month?" But those notions were in my mind which is extra funny because I'm the only person I know who had liberal parents.  


Anyways for me the older I got and the more I grew as a person the more confidence I had to allow others to succeed on the personal and social level. 


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Leon - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 10:26 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't post much, but have been reading for years, including the old board.  I'd say you summed that up pretty accurately.  Bell isn't that bad though.

thanks. im not even saying dill an lidicus are bad folks. im just saying i think they try to come off like they are way smarter than the rest of us an i think they have been programmed by left thinking. maybe they just act that way cause they need to feel right and superior to feel good about there left ideas. idk

i am interested to know the real education or jobs of both to see why they come of that way or how they might be programmed. ive got told the bellsnikel aint quite the same so i went back and look thru alot of his posts and im sorry. but he just comes off like a know it all on about everthing he talks about. it just feels like hes trying way to hard to impress folks and act like he knows more. theres also pally who always has to act moral superior to all other folks even though his ideas are just left propaganda and he has no high ground at all. gino falls into that to even though he cant see how terrible his thinking is and its hard to take him serious

i just dont like that certain folks want to act these ways or put themselves over other folks. just a rant i guess.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Truck_1_0_1_ - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 03:38 PM)Leon Wrote: thanks. im not even saying dill an lidicus are bad folks. im just saying i think they try to come off like they are way smarter than the rest of us an i think they have been programmed by left thinking. maybe they just act that way cause they need to feel right and superior to feel good about there left ideas. idk

i am interested to know the real education or jobs of both to see why they come of that way or how they might be programmed. ive got told the bellsnikel aint quite the same so i went back and look thru alot of his posts and im sorry. but he just comes off like a know it all on about everthing he talks about. it just feels like hes trying way to hard to impress folks and act like he knows more. theres also pally who always has to act moral superior to all other folks even though his ideas are just left propaganda and he has no high ground at all. gino falls into that to even though he cant see how terrible his thinking is and its hard to take him serious

i just dont like that certain folks want to act these ways or put themselves over other folks. just a rant i guess.

LOL that's because HE DOES know more than most people. Jesus Christ, just because someone objectively is more worldly/knowledgeable, doesn't mean they're a know it all.

I've dealt with that shit my whole life, not my fault I have greater brain capacity for storing knowledge.

And Pally is female.

At least know your opponents before starting a row.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Leon - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 03:49 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: LOL that's because HE DOES know more than most people. Jesus Christ, just because someone objectively is more worldly/knowledgeable, doesn't mean they're a know it all.

I've dealt with that shit my whole life, not my fault I have greater brain capacity for storing knowledge.

And Pally is female.

At least know your opponents before starting a row.

its ok i dont put you in this group. ive never read one of your posts and thought you were making an attempt to be smart. thats jusr being brutal honest. you spend most your time stalking me and giving thumbs down

didnt know pally was a girl. so my bad there. didnt even know there was any girls on here.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Truck_1_0_1_ - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 03:55 PM)Leon Wrote: its ok i dont put you in this group. ive never read one of your posts and thought you were making an attempt to be smart. thats jusr being brutal honest. you spend most your time stalking me and giving thumbs down

didnt know pally was a girl. so my bad there. didnt even know there was any girls on here.

lol of course you would find yourself so important that you'd think you're stalked.

Dude, I explained it to you last year: you post almost everywhere I look and your verbal diarrhea is contained therein, so I'll thumb down to my heart's content as it is a tiny, miniscule bit of catharsis.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Leon - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 03:59 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: lol of course you would find yourself so important that you'd think you're stalked.

Dude, I explained it to you last year: you post almost everywhere I look and your verbal diarrhea is contained therein, so I'll thumb down to my heart's content as it is a tiny, miniscule bit of catharsis.

creepy


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Truck_1_0_1_ - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 04:09 PM)Leon Wrote: creepy

If you understood the words I wrote in my post, you wouldn't find it creepy at all.

And I'd advise you to look in the mirror ThumbsUp

EDIT* And I'm done, between this and the other thread, I've gotten too hot under the collar and don't wish to do anything potentially rash.

There's something really wrong with this world, when we all just cannot tolerate (not even love, TOLERATE) anybody's lifestyle and things that make them happy. Really unfortunate.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Leon - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 04:15 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: If you understood the words I wrote in my post, you wouldn't find it creepy at all.

And I'd advise you to look in the mirror ThumbsUp

EDIT* And I'm done, between this and the other thread, I've gotten too hot under the collar and don't wish to do anything potentially rash.

There's something really wrong with this world, when we all just cannot tolerate (not even love, TOLERATE) anybody's lifestyle and things that make them happy. Really unfortunate.

i guarantee there is lots of things you dont tolerate cause you think there wrong


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - pally - 06-16-2023

(06-16-2023, 03:38 PM)Leon Wrote: thanks. im not even saying dill an lidicus are bad folks. im just saying i think they try to come off like they are way smarter than the rest of us an i think they have been programmed by left thinking. maybe they just act that way cause they need to feel right and superior to feel good about there left ideas. idk

i am interested to know the real education or jobs of both to see why they come of that way or how they might be programmed. ive got told the bellsnikel aint quite the same so i went back and look thru alot of his posts and im sorry. but he just comes off like a know it all on about everthing he talks about. it just feels like hes trying way to hard to impress folks and act like he knows more. theres also pally who always has to act moral superior to all other folks even though his ideas are just left propaganda and he has no high ground at all. gino falls into that to even though he cant see how terrible his thinking is and its hard to take him serious

i just dont like that certain folks want to act these ways or put themselves over other folks. just a rant i guess.


It is all a matter of how you look at things.

there is also Leon who always has to act morally superior to all other folks even though his ideas are just right propaganda and he has no high ground at all


You like to throw out accusations about all sorts of things you seem to think are immoral but somehow have issues when questioned about those accusations 
Just like so many of your conservative brethren, you have demonstrated limited ability to back up your accusations with credible proof.

And I am an adult not a child... I don't call you boy....you don't call me girl


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Belsnickel - 06-17-2023

(06-16-2023, 01:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: A lot of angry and active political young people on both sides get into a normal rut and taper off and get more subtle about it once they fall into an adult routine.  People can get into bubbles and people can get out of them. 

Oddly enough when I was in college I was at my most conservative. 

(06-16-2023, 02:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Not that hard to believe. I wasn't a Republican or anything because they were all about social conservatism, Jesus government, and war but I had major "what about us straight white guys?" energy.  I was young, selfish, and didn't have a real world perspective yet. 

I bought into that Idea that people like me were going to get a raw deal because everyone was into promoting everything I wasn't.  Eventually I realized promoting what I'm not doesn't mean demoting what I am. As I built my own self confidence and personal and professional resume I stopped looking for others to "make things fair" for me.

I wasn't exactly "where is white history month?" But those notions were in my mind which is extra funny because I'm the only person I know who had liberal parents.  


Anyways for me the older I got and the more I grew as a person the more confidence I had to allow others to succeed on the personal and social level. 

Funnily enough, I have a similar arc. I mean, I was very libertarian minded in my teenage years and early twenties. I bought into the whole "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" mindset, which is very common in the accounting field. I even supported the Tea Party movement back in the day. It was during that time, though, that I had some discussions with folks about political and economic theory. I started reading the works that were the support of these movements. I started reading white papers and policy analyses. Something clicked inside of me.

It was during that time that I decided I wanted to work in government or non-profit and try to do my part for my fellow man. When the opportunity introduced itself due to my employment for me to study more about political science and public administration, I jumped at it. Over the years I developed a tool box to think more critically about all of these things and understand the data that is out there.

These days I am a social democrat, which means center-left on the geopolitical spectrum. Of course, that's about where Bernie is, so that tells you something about our politics in this country. What most people don't know, though, is that the positions of both Roosevelts were in that same area on the scale in many regards. Minus the whole aggressiveness of TR. It just goes to show how much the politics have changed in this country. Though, they have also stayed the same in many ways.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - BigPapaKain - 06-17-2023

(06-16-2023, 05:00 PM)Leon Wrote: i guarantee there is lots of things you dont tolerate cause you think there wrong

Sure - animal abuse, pedophilia, sexual assault, using social standing to enrich yourself instead of your community, genocide.

What people do with in the privacy of their own homes with other consenting adults isn't my problem or my business.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - GMDino - 06-18-2023

Maybe if they didn't ban books they'd know how to read and comprehend?

[Image: Fx5-LRaXgAAbzfB?format=jpg&name=small]


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Dill - 06-18-2023

(06-14-2023, 11:59 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, I haven't shifted at all as they go hand in hand.  To put a finer point on it, not all the protests involve physical violence, but all the violence occurred during a protest.  As for suppression of speech, the same logic applies, just at a much higher rate of occurrence.  I'll take your word in regard to mentioning the "demons" conversation, but I'll reiterate, it's not germane to this particular topic.  Who is "worse" than the other in a general sense is irrelevant to a discussion of college campus protests.

And once again it's not germane to a discussion about college campus protest.  If you want to have a separate conversation about that then feel free to do so outside the context of this particular back and forth.  I think you would agree that staying on topic is important to a clear exchange of ideas and information.

No, in that post I was not confining my statements to college campuses.  So, no, that wasn't changing the subject.  As stated above I'm happy to have the conversation as well, just not in the context of discussing speech suppression and violence on college campuses.

And you continue to change the subject.  A
gain, if you want to have that discussion do so outside the exchange on college campus protests.  Alternatively, you could admit the rather obvious fact that in this regard, and on this topic, the left is far more censorious and violent than the right.  Doing so would not hurt an argument about this topic in other facets and it would allow us to move on to those other topics you're clearly keen on shifting the conversation to.

A few days late, but here goes:

In a dialogue, no one unilaterally decides who is changing the subject; that's why they call it a DIAlogue and not a MONOlogue.

My only goal in this discussion has been to address the question of speech suppression on campuses, because that is connected to and important to understanding the larger disorder which afflicts the republic at the moment. It is part and parcel of that. That's why I keep "shifting the conversation" by addressing YOUR COMMENTS about attacks on free speech, e.g. post # 159 "We are discussing the suppression of speech and violence on college campuses." 
 
But whenever I address your points, you say I am changing the subject. Which you insist is now just college "protests," except when you are making your "ultimate point" about "extreme bullshit on both sides" that no one will acknowledge, or about Glendale.  So far as I can tell, you are the only person here who wants a number count of campus protests, apparently to find some sector of the American universe in which "the left" is "more censorious and violent than the right." That's a point with no point if it is not connected to larger issues.  Like claiming gays are more violent than straight people then insisting we only examine one venue--gay bars--because there one finds more bar fights started by gay men. Any discussion of the larger society's violence against gays would then be "veering off topic" with the appearance of avoiding an "uncomfortable truth" about gay violence.  

So yes, let's "move on to those other topics" to which I keep shifting the conversation by addressing claims from your posts.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Dill - 06-18-2023

(06-16-2023, 03:38 PM)Leon Wrote: thanks. im not even saying dill an lidicus are bad folks. im just saying i think they try to come off like they are way smarter than the rest of us an i think they have been programmed by left thinking. maybe they just act that way cause they need to feel right and superior to feel good about there left ideas. idk

i am interested to know the real education or jobs of both to see why they come of that way or how they might be programmed. ive got told the bellsnikel aint quite the same so i went back and look thru alot of his posts and im sorry. but he just comes off like a know it all on about everthing he talks about. it just feels like hes trying way to hard to impress folks and act like he knows more. theres also pally who always has to act moral superior to all other folks even though his ideas are just left propaganda and he has no high ground at all. gino falls into that to even though he cant see how terrible his thinking is and its hard to take him serious

i just dont like that certain folks want to act these ways or put themselves over other folks. just a rant i guess.

I think we can say for sure that Dill's "programming" has involved an orientation towards learning and intellectual inquiry based upon dialogue and shared standards of logic and evidence, which has been around since the Greeks. But some call that "education," not programming, given its emphasis on understanding others' views and how they came to be, and not simply marking their agreement or disagreement with one's own, end of story. Worse, Dill's spent decades studying political history from ancient times to the present, the kind of thing taught less and less now because people think it won't get them a job. It may be tempting for Dill types to use that knowledge sometimes. The question you raise is--could that use ever be legitimate in a public forum, where some may not share it? What would be grounds for excluding it--other than that it may undermine what some just want to believe?

We live in a society which is pretty much center/right liberal and our education reflects that, so one has to go outside the mainstream to get actual leftist perspectives. One has then a chance to view that society from within both liberal and leftist perspectives. At that point then, a lot of mainstream education begins to look like "programming." 

There is a lot that ol' Dill doesn't know about finance and computers and communications and many other things that he doesn't chip in on. But he's made a point of listening to other's perspectives--including yours. 

A while back we were discussing the Durham Report. Speaking as Dill rather than for him, I actually read the whole thing, and what I could of the heavily redacted IGA report. Part of my motivation for doing what was that some people were making claims about the Report I knew could not be true, and they were following what their trusted right wing sources said about it instead of reading the report themselves.

I used quotations from the Durham Report to challenge what they were saying. And in using evidence like that, I was also opening up my argument to cross examination and fact-checking by others. If I were wrong, people could demonstrate it. Would that be an example of me being a know-it-all? You couldn't view my opponents as not knowing what they are talking about and "programmed" by right wing views? Same thing happened a couple years back when the Barr disinformed us about the Mueller Report. I read it and argued with people who trusted Barr over the actual report. Assuming that I am quoting these reports accurately and my opponents can't refute my points, you don't see such contribution to discussion as valuable or useful? Accuracy and correct representation of reports are secondary to something else? Or is "accuracy" more about having the right beliefs and feelings? 

I ask because if I take the time to learn about a subject and use that knowledge in political discussion then I am curious as to what effect it has. If I understand you, you think my posts are not to inform or to refute disinformation but to "come off as way smarter." Like I don't really care if people have an accurate summary of what CRT is really about and whether the Right has embarked on a very successful disinformation campaign about it. The important thing is not that people understand how that manipulation leads to unjust policy results, but that I "impress folks"? 

Also, I spend a lot of time learning what the "other side" says and thinks about political issues. When I do that, I find that they often have not read primary texts like the abovementioned, and also that they self-censure news and commentary from the other side because it is "fake." They allow their selected authorities, from Rush limbaugh to Hannity to Trump, explain events for them. So I am wondering why I should be described as "programmed" by "propaganda" and not the other way around?  

How do we decide whether someone else has been "programmed" by "propaganda"? If it is because they disagree with us, and we don't want to understand their views, why doesn't that make us the "programmed" ones.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Dill - 06-18-2023

(06-14-2023, 11:59 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:And I'm not "admitting the obvious" about suppression of speech on campus while Republicans are actually "reforming" higher ed by cutting whole programs and the people who teach them. 

Ahh, a rather different kettle of fish here.  I assume you're referring to Florida, but since you gave no specific example I'm left to just guess.

Not a "different kettle of fish" if, as you proclaimed above, the issue is suppression of free speech. Not even outside the "exchange of protests" you claim is the real topic, since students frequently protest firing of faculty and cancelation of programs. 

Free speech was never a thing on U.S. college campuses until post-Civil War, when research universities first displaced the old Latin curriculum. Then the issue was academic freedom, followed by student speech. Both have been problems which ebb and flow. Post-WWII there was the McCarthy scare, bring to your state the demand that all college professors sign an anti-communist statement or be fired. Then there were the student protests of the '60s against the VN War. We've seen nothing on that scale since, briefly, the George Floyd protests. 

But now, just as they desire to force their abortion views on the nation, the MAGA right wants to actively intervene in higher ed--remember, one of Limbaugh's four "deceits," along with Government, Science and the Media. We hear a lot of astro turf movements in the public schools orchestrated against transgender and gay students. But much less about their doings in tertiary education. 

It appears that they've gotten the College Board to scale back their AP curricula regarding African-American history (feeder courses to university-level work). They are developing a model for every state, or as many as possible, in which state legislatures defund public universities to get them to conform to New Right/MAGA values. That includes eliminating "social justice" programs, history which is "unfair" to whites, and tenure, along with a push for open carry on campus.

DeSantis Florida model is a big experimental step in this direction--creation of a state college on the model of Michigan's Hillsdale. Discourage the "wrong" kind of student and faculty, provide incentives to the "right" kind (pun intended). But Florida is not the only state seeking doctrinal control of public universities.
Idaho Lawmakers Cut Into Public University Budgets To Scale Back Social Justice Programs
https://www.nwpb.org/2021/03/03/idaho-lawmakers-cut-into-public-university-budgets-to-scale-back-social-justice-programs/

Last year the Georgia Senate managed to strip provisions from a bill that would ban teaching "divisive concepts" in universities in that state, though they kept it for k-12 education. https://www.gpb.org/news/2022/03/08/senate-education-panel-advances-divisive-concepts-bill-stripped-of-college-rules. The battle is not over. A few days before that the Georgia House, blind or indifferent to the irony, passed a bill banning "free speech zones" and hate speech provisions in Georgia higher ed because free speech is how one overcomes bad ideas." https://thecurrentga.org/2022/03/05/georgia-house-passes-3-controversial-education-bills-despite-opposition/

The Alabama Senate has also proposed "divisive concepts" legislation that would apply to college as well K-12. And it would allow for firing of professors who taught CRT. https://www.al.com/news/2022/02/new-divisive-concepts-education-bill-filed-in-alabama-legislature.html

In Utah, legislators pushing for elimination of Diversity Equity Inclusion provisions in higher ed agreed to postpone that in lieu of a study.
https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0283.html

Texas has banned DEI https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/15/politics/greg-abbott-texas-dei-office-ban-colleges/index.html, and its Senate is set to ban tenure in 2924. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2023/04/20/ban-future-tenure-texas-senate-bill-18-approved-public-colleges-university-faculty-2024/70116537007/?gnt-cfr=1

I suppose we could go red state by red state doing this. Each functions as a kind of petri dish to see what restrictions on higher ed "work," then these legislative fixes will be disseminated to others. The pattern is similar to bans on Sharia and CRT in the past. The first versions of the bills don't pass. Then with tinkering they do.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - ochocincos - 06-20-2023

(05-07-2023, 11:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I've said that women can't be men and men can't be woman, and I was faced with a lot of backlash on here.

Bud Light has lost something like six billion in sales and market value.

My question is, is this country right that a man can't be a woman and a woman can't be a man or are beer drinkers just a bunch of bigots?

If the thing you care about most is money, then it makes sense to avoid taking a stance on anything.
However, if you have firm beliefs in something, sometimes it's more important to share that stance, even if it causes some people to walk away and profits to decline.

People should buy a product if it's good quality, or not buy a product if it's bad quality.
Bud Light as a product sucks, which is why I haven't voluntarily bought it since college lol.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - BFritz21 - 06-20-2023

(06-20-2023, 10:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If the thing you care about most is money, then it makes sense to avoid taking a stance on anything.
However, if you have firm beliefs in something, sometimes it's more important to share that stance, even if it causes some people to walk away and profits to decline.

People should buy a product if it's good quality, or not buy a product if it's bad quality.
Bud Light as a product sucks, which is why I haven't voluntarily bought it since college lol.

Like I said, Bud Light and Budweiser was the only beer I drank until I quit beer completely because my ass was getting too big to fit in my wheelchair.

Beer sellers and most producers of any product for the public to buy only care about money.

Yes, some might care about the country and things like that, but most major corporations stay away from things that could divide or drive away their consumers.

Bud Light wasn't "taking a stand here," they were trying to cash in on the woke culture and, thank God, it backfired, which has somewhat renewed my faith in this country.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Nately120 - 06-20-2023

Our political system makes a handful of corporations invincible. People can scream at the NFL and Disney and bud light all they want, they know you're going to fight them by voting for politicians who will help their profits at the expense of anything else.

Get your shots in now peasants, because they'll be peddling their politics and products as we take our last spiteful breaths.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - ochocincos - 06-20-2023

(06-20-2023, 12:50 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Like I said, Bud Light and Budweiser was the only beer I drank until I quit beer completely because my ass was getting too big to fit in my wheelchair.

Beer sellers and most producers of any product for the public to buy only care about money.

Yes, some might care about the country and things like that, but most major corporations stay away from things that could divide or drive away their consumers.

Bud Light wasn't "taking a stand here," they were trying to cash in on the woke culture and, thank God, it backfired, which has somewhat renewed my faith in this country.

You do know that Anheiser Busch is owned by InDev, which is headquartered in Belgium, right?

I mention that because the company itself is also not "American," despite doing pro-America campaigns and all that.

It's all about marketing, whatever to try to get people to buy things.
Putting the American flag on the beers and using red, white, and blue for their colors is also a marketing plan.


RE: Is Bud Light Right And I'm Wrong? - Nately120 - 06-20-2023

(06-20-2023, 01:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You do know that Anheiser Busch is owned by InDev, which is headquartered in Belgium, right?

I mention that because the company itself is also not "American," despite doing pro-America campaigns and all that.

It's all about marketing, whatever to try to get people to buy things.
Putting the American flag on the beers and using red, white, and blue for their colors is also a marketing plan.

Didnt they have a campaign a few years ago to temporarily chance the name to America?  I can't recall how that went over but that's some amusingly cynical marketing.