+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive)
+---- Thread: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA (/Thread-Alt-right-rallies-in-Charlottesville-VA)
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - GMDino - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 02:53 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As predicted to a tee.
All I needed to see. Same old song.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Matt_Crimson - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 02:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think the struggle is that there are so many different groups under the umbrella, that it becomes hard to find an all encompassing term. I think I am going to take a cue from Pat Jarrett, though, and go with "American fascists."
http://bittersoutherner.com/as-loud-as-a-bomb-charlottesville-terrorist-attack
But the term was created by white supremacists. Why should anyone who is not a white supremacist fall under the term "alt right" when it was created by racists for racists.
It's like instead of calling murderers, murderers we instead start calling them "alernative humans".
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 03:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: All I needed to see. Same old song.
Of course that's your tactic. You cut out everything your can't address and then make a smarmy comment like you just won. The funny thing is that you don't realize how transparent it is and that everyone but you sees through it. Thanks, though, for taking us back to the inane sniping, I guess old habits are hard to break.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Belsnickel - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 03:25 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: But the term was created by white supremacists. Why should anyone who is not a white supremacist fall under the term "alt right" when it was created by racists for racists.
It's like instead of calling murderers, murderers we instead start calling them "alernative humans".
Not all of them identify as "alt-right." I mean, to me, alt-right=American Nazi=white supremacist=white nationalist=...
But among them, there are nuances that differentiate. There are just a few unifying factors, chief among them being that they are racist assholes.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Benton - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 02:32 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I honestly don't recall someone shooting at a picture of their opponent, who did that? As for exercising your 2nd amendment rights, that only entails owning a firearm (possibly carrying it), it does not involve using your firearm against others. The 2nd amendment does not cover when and where your using a firearm against others is acceptable or legal.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33244839/ns/politics-capitol_hill/t/gop-member-shoots-target-dems-initials/#.WZNEz2N6rzI
In reading the story again, it says a silhouette with her initials and not a picture. I was thinking about the muslim part as far as the pictures go.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Belsnickel - 08-15-2017
#BREAKING: #Cville car suspect, #UniteTheRight rally organizer, & alt-right leaders face $3M lawsuit from 2 ppl injured in car attack pic.twitter.com/PH4fehgPiv
— Matt Talhelm (@MattTalhelm) August 15, 2017
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 04:05 PM)Benton Wrote: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33244839/ns/politics-capitol_hill/t/gop-member-shoots-target-dems-initials/#.WZNEz2N6rzI
In reading the story again, it says a silhouette with her initials and not a picture. I was thinking about the muslim part as far as the pictures go.
I was going to say, shooting someone's picture is illegal, it would have been surprising if someone running for office made such a critical error. Your point is taken, though.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 05:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:#BREAKING: #Cville car suspect, #UniteTheRight rally organizer, & alt-right leaders face $3M lawsuit from 2 ppl injured in car attack pic.twitter.com/PH4fehgPiv
— Matt Talhelm (@MattTalhelm) August 15, 2017
I don't see how they have much of a case. Holding a group responsible for the actions of one individual is difficult if that person is not a representative of an official body such as a soldier, LEO or the like. We are a litigious society though, so have at it.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - BmorePat87 - 08-15-2017
Trump got combative with reporters today as he seemed to defend the white supremacist protestors and their cause.
Quote:Mr. Trump repeated that assertion on Tuesday, criticizing “alt-left” groups that he claimed were “very, very violent” when they sought to confront the nationalist and Nazi groups that had gathered in Charlottesville, Virginia to protest the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee from a park. He said there is “blame on both sides.”
“Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee,” Mr. Trump said. “This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?”
Mr. Trump defended those gathered in the park to protest the statue’s removal, saying, “I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch.”
He went on to say that the white supremacists were "being charged at by people with clubs who didn't have permits to protest".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/trump-press-conference-charlottesville.html
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Belsnickel - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 05:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Trump got combative with reporters today as he seemed to defend the white supremacist protestors and their cause.
He went on to say that the white supremacists were "being charged at by people with clubs who didn't have permits to protest".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/trump-press-conference-charlottesville.html
Well, couple of things:
1. There were permits for the counter-protests.
2. Unite the Right's permit was nullified before it became realized because of the declaration of an unlawful assembly.
I also am not surprised about him walking back his statement. He showed his true colors, and the American fascists will eat this up. I am pissed, however, about his lies in this conference. He claims he waited for all of the facts, and then spouts a lie about the weekend's events by claiming they were peaceful/quiet on Friday night. So quiet and peaceful that they beat peaceful counter-protesting students with their flaming tiki torches.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Belsnickel - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 05:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't see how they have much of a case. Holding a group responsible for the actions of one individual is difficult if that person is not a representative of an official body such as a soldier, LEO or the like. We are a litigious society though, so have at it.
I think they are going to go the route of "they organized this event and created the climate." We'll see, though. I doubt it will go anywhere, myself.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 05:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think they are going to go the route of "they organized this event and created the climate." We'll see, though. I doubt it will go anywhere, myself.
You're certainly correct, in both regards. That would be insanely difficult to prove to the degree of legal culpability. It's actually a bit of a slippery slope for the claimants as the counter-protesters could easily be brought into the "created the climate" fold by the defense.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Belsnickel - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 05:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're certainly correct, in both regards. That would be insanely difficult to prove to the degree of legal culpability. It's actually a bit of a slippery slope for the claimants as the counter-protesters could easily be brought into the "created the climate" fold by the defense.
I thought the exact same thing when I saw this, that their legal defense will immediately question the exclusion of groups like Antifa, DSA, etc.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 05:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I thought the exact same thing when I saw this, that their legal defense will immediately question the exclusion of groups like Antifa, DSA, etc.
Brilliant minds and all. They'll end up paying the defense's legal fees like those poor parents who were misled by groups like Everytown in the Aurora, CO theater shooting. A real lawyer, i.e. one with some ethics, would have warned them as such. Unfortunately, in my experience, those types of lawyers are exceedingly rare.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Nebuchadnezzar - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 05:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're certainly correct, in both regards. That would be insanely difficult to prove to the degree of legal culpability. It's actually a bit of a slippery slope for the claimants as the counter-protesters could easily be brought into the "created the climate" fold by the defense.
The prosecution will win because of emotion and not because of the law.
They have to win and the jury will have to convict simply because of nazis.
That's my feeling and opinion.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 06:10 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: The prosecution will win because of emotion and not because of the law.
They have to win and the jury will have to convict simply because of nazis.
That's my feeling and opinion.
You're forgetting the appeals process.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Belsnickel - 08-15-2017
This is why Trump's statements yesterday weren't good enough: http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-spencer-says-trump-didnt-condemn-the-alt-right-2017-8
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - BmorePat87 - 08-15-2017
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662
Full text.
"But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists, by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee. So and you take a look at the groups and you see and you'd know it if you were honest reporters, but many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. And this week it's Robert E. Lee. I notice that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week and Thomas Jefferson the week after. You know you really have to ask yourself where does it stop? But, they were there to protest – excuse me – you take a look the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. Infrastructure question. Go ahead
"Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
" Oh no, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down – excuse me. Are we going to take down, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him? Okay, good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? You know what? It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too."
" There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call ‘em. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don't know if you know, but they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit. So I only tell you this: there are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final – does anybody have a final question? You have an infrastructure question."
"“I didn’t wait long, I didn’t wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement. The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement, but you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the fact. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. And it’s a very, very important process to me. And it’s a very important statement. So I don’t want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts.”
REPORTER: Two questions: was this terrorism? And can you tell us how you are feeling about your Chief Strategist Steve Bannon?
TRUMP: I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family and this country. And that is – you can call it terrorism, you can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. And there is a question. Is it murder? Is it terrorism? Then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer, and what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing.
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - Vlad - 08-15-2017
Now we have a NY Times journalists who actually tells the truth, then gets lambasted.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19673/ny-times-reporter-admits-antifa-protesters-james-barrett#
She is forced to retract.
2. The hard left seemed as hate-filled as alt-right. I saw club-wielding "antifa" beating white nationalists being led out of the park 2/2
— Sheryl Gay Stolberg (@SherylNYT) August 13, 2017
Quote:3. Among my unanswered questions: police response. Why did things get out of hand so quickly? Could violence have been prevented? 3/3
— Sheryl Gay Stolberg (@SherylNYT) August 13, 2017
And here's the "correction"
Quote:Rethinking this. Should have said violent, not hate-filled. They were standing up to hate. [url=https://t.co/3O9QpC0NQ3]
RE: Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA - GMDino - 08-15-2017
(08-15-2017, 08:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is why Trump's statements yesterday weren't good enough: http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-spencer-says-trump-didnt-condemn-the-alt-right-2017-8
(08-15-2017, 08:14 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662
Full text.
Ah, the difference between Trump reading (barely) a prepared statement and talking off the top of his feeble mind.
He must have gotten wind he would lose his base of Nazi scum and had to thrown them a bone.