03-11-2016, 11:26 AM
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
Education Comparisons
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03-11-2016, 11:26 AM
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
03-11-2016, 11:39 AM
(03-10-2016, 10:03 PM)6andcounting Wrote: I think this exists on a very small scale right now. I'm not sure how it works because it doesn't pertain to me, but there is a loan forgiveness program for federal loans for public school teachers. I'd hate to put the government in the business of deciding which things should be covered; lobbyists will buy special treatment for their industry or school. And there's so much room to disagree. I'd say school teachers are important, but right now it's impossible for recent graduates to land a salaried teaching position. From an economic sense, we don't need more education students. Teachers unions would disagree. I love the idea, but making it work will become a bloated, inefficient bureaucracy. But that's not to say I wouldn't absolutely that type of change. (03-11-2016, 09:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: A longer answer: Agreed, 100 percent.
03-11-2016, 12:58 PM
(03-11-2016, 12:39 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: If a non-certified, non-"educated" mom can successfully homeschool her children, not just passable but GOOD students - and I've personally seen examples and I know there are many more.... So all we need is schools with one teacher for every child (or 2 or 3).
03-11-2016, 01:06 PM
(03-11-2016, 10:46 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Just as an aside, how come every study like this that comes out says how bad we suck, and yet we dominate the world? We've been the dumbest people in the world for as long as I can remember, and yet somehow we are always on top. We built a huge lead with untapped natural resources that pushed us to the top during the industrial revolution. We have also benefited greatly from not having an enemy within thousands of miles of us for the last 150 years.
03-11-2016, 01:27 PM
(03-11-2016, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So all we need is schools with one teacher for every child (or 2 or 3). It mostly comes down to ability. A capable child, with proper parental involvement and encouragement, will do just fine. But, yeah, we do a poor job of teaching children with less ability. Consider that the foundation for reading, writing and basic arithmetic is laid early on in elementary, and homework (where parents might take start taking a more active role) doesn't really start until 4th or 5th grade. What we are spending on education clearly isn't the problem (only a few countries are higher). The typical liberal solution "spend more money" is another non-starter.
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03-11-2016, 01:31 PM
(03-11-2016, 01:27 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: What we are spending on education clearly isn't the problem (only a few countries are higher). The typical liberal solution "spend more money" is another non-starter. Except liberals don't just say "spend money". That is nothing but echo chamber rhetoric. Liberals at least have specific ideas and programs that require these extra funds. That is much better than the Republicans plans of "cutting the funds" or "give the funds to private schools and screw the kids stuck in public schools".
03-11-2016, 02:15 PM
(03-11-2016, 11:26 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Economic, innovation, military. Economic: has less to do with education and more to do with resources, regulatory landscape, available revenue streams, etc. Military: again, little to do with education. Innovation: has more to do with higher education. The innovators are the exception to the rule, and a lot of them are people coming here from other countries so they can take advantage of our universities.
03-11-2016, 02:29 PM
(03-11-2016, 02:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Economic: has less to do with education and more to do with resources, regulatory landscape, available revenue streams, etc.So why even compare to other nations? Where is their advantage to being better at calculus? Let the best of Asia Africa and Europe come here and use their talents.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
03-11-2016, 03:44 PM
(03-11-2016, 09:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I see some discussions about home schooling. I have seen both good and bad results from this. Of course, you can have idiots teaching children in schools as well, so there is that. The biggest negative I have seen in home schooled children is I have seen some that lacked any socialization and as a result they did not know how to interact with peers. You know, I have never had an issue with a person that was home schooled, they always seemed engaged and didn't seem to lack any of those social skills. I have a different outlook on this, of course this is just pure speculation so take from it as you will: Could it be that the home schooled kid is actually very adept at socializing but chooses to remain quiet due to being smarter than the average kid? So what looks like anti social behavior or tentativeness is actually them just trying to fit in by avoiding unnecessary arguments with people that they know won't understand them because they know the person isn't on their level? Are there some Bobby Boucher's out there? Sure, I don't doubt they exist. However, the ones I have personally met have been extremely social and intelligent, but around some people they sit back and just watch and observe. Never asked them why, but I do the same thing and I do it because there are many people that I just don't even bother with.
03-11-2016, 03:47 PM
I'd be more in line with home schooling if not every single person I knew who did it was weird.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
03-11-2016, 03:49 PM
(03-11-2016, 09:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: A longer answer: The thing to take away from this is that there is no one size fits all when it comes to education. You can't cram every child into the same system and expect them all to come out the same. Each child is different and learns differently.
03-11-2016, 03:50 PM
03-11-2016, 04:14 PM
(03-11-2016, 03:49 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: The thing to take away from this is that there is no one size fits all when it comes to education. But eventually all children have to follow set guidelines and rules when they get a job in the reaL world. I have no problem with different learning plans for different kids, but part of education is learning how to work with others in a society. Home schooled kids I have had experience with range from very smart, normal people to introverted religious fanatics. As the commercials says "Individual results may vary".
03-11-2016, 05:12 PM
(03-11-2016, 01:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except liberals don't just say "spend money". That is nothing but echo chamber rhetoric. Liberals at least have specific ideas and programs that require these extra funds. So, you're response to the "echo chamber" FACT that we already spend among the highest rates in the world is - WAIT FOR IT - programs that require more spending? You know, I believe that in your head that might actually have made sense, but you once again offered up a refutation that 100% validates my point.
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03-11-2016, 05:19 PM
(03-11-2016, 05:12 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: So, you're response to the "echo chamber" FACT that we already spend among the highest rates in the world is - WAIT FOR IT - programs that require more spending? Yes. I am actually in favor of trying to do something to fix the problem. I don't know why you find that so shocking. I really don't understand your point here. I have not yet heard your plan to fix the problem by cutting funds. Or do you think that there is no problem to fix? Not really sure exactly what you are trying to say.
03-11-2016, 05:35 PM
(03-11-2016, 03:44 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: You know, I have never had an issue with a person that was home schooled, they always seemed engaged and didn't seem to lack any of those social skills. I can see what you are saying, but that isn't it at all. It has definitely been a case of poor social skills.
03-11-2016, 05:35 PM
(03-11-2016, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes. I am actually in favor of trying to do something to fix the problem. I don'rt know why you find that so shocking. You advocate new programs and new spending as "solutions"....Well, is it fair to say that the "new programs" you supported 5 or 10 years ago didn't do the job? Why can't we eliminate or restructure those programs to fund your new ones? The problem isn't the money we are spending on education, the problem is clearly how we are spending it. Why should we continue dumping money into mismanaged programs? Not sure why that's so difficult to understand. It's too bad you've never been in the real world of business. You would be amazed at what can be accomplished when budgets are tightened. Successful companies embrace the process of "creative destruction"....Failures keep throwing money at bad business.
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03-11-2016, 05:49 PM
(03-11-2016, 05:35 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You advocate new programs and new spending as "solutions"....Well, is it fair to say that the "new programs" you supported 5 or 10 years ago didn't do the job? Why can't we eliminate or restructure those programs to fund your new ones? More vague BS with no substance. i have no problem with re-structuring if that would fix the problem for free. But I have no idea what you mean by this. why aren't conservatives out promoting these idea that will fix education fof free. I have done a little research, and most of what I hear involves vouchers. What is this "re-structuring" that you are proposing. You keep talking about the "real world", but I have had experience in the "real world" and I never saw anyone get very far by instructing workers to "fix a problem by fixing it". The people that succeed are the ones that have actual plans and ideas. And successful companies spend money to make more money. That is why they all carry so much debt.
03-12-2016, 01:32 AM
(03-11-2016, 04:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But eventually all children have to follow set guidelines and rules when they get a job in the reaL world. I don't think I have seen anyone say that a child doesn't have to follow set guidelines.
03-12-2016, 01:37 AM
(03-11-2016, 05:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I can see what you are saying, but that isn't it at all. It has definitely been a case of poor social skills. I can't speak for the people you have met. Only for the ones I have. The ones I have met are very social people. However they do get quiet when certain people come around, they just sit back and watch them. Like I said, I don't know why they do so, I never asked, but I know I do the same thing sometimes. Usually when the person is so full of "Wow", it is not worth engaging with them. However, I do know that there have to be the Bouchers out there, I may not have met one yet, but I know they are out there. |
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