White House bans CNN reporter from press conference

[*bfine32*]

(08-02-2018, 04:24 PM)Benton Wrote: Ok. I'll wait while you come up with a list of all the folks on the left calling the free press the "enemy of the people."

Yeah, you've got me confused with someone that condones Trump's statements toward the media. I simply disagreed with your assertion that the hate is all on the right.

We've recently seen folks attacked verbally with hate while trying to have dinner with friends and families, we've seen Maxine Water's 'call to action". There are countless other examples.

Asserting the hate is one-sided is shortsighted (at best) IMO and only you know if that shortsightedness is intentional or not.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 06:13 PM)Benton Wrote: Ok. Where are these attacks? 

Seriously? You've never heard anyone question Fox News validity? You've never heard people call it "Faux News"?

(08-02-2018, 06:13 PM)Benton Wrote: Not criticism of their talking heads or pointing out their regular retractions after the fact, but where are the instances of the left calling Fox News an enemy of the people? 

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/01/11/obamas-white-house-2009-dont-pretend-fox-news-is-a-legitimate-news-organization/

Quote:“We’re going to treat them the way we would treat an opponent,” said Anita Dunn, the White House communications director, in a telephone interview on Sunday. “As they are undertaking a war against Barack Obama and the White House, we don’t need to pretend that this is the way that legitimate news organizations behave.”

(08-02-2018, 06:13 PM)Benton Wrote: Or is this general 'yeah the left is as bad' sentiment? Because I hear this a lot. And I dislike the left. But I don't see them spewing the same kind of hate as the right. Complaining and making idiotic statements, sure, but not spreading intentional grief at this level.

Yes, me saying Trump has been far worse than anyone before him is me saying "the left is just as bad".

[hollodero]

(08-02-2018, 06:20 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I agree that presidents should be held to high standard, but, IMO, the problem comes from the pervailing mindset of always defending "your" guy and attacking the other side. It's not indicative of either side either.

Yes. (At this point I usually claim how the two-party system is the root of the problem, so imagine a 300-line rant here.)

Also, sure not indicative of either side. You would need a referee to decide who's worse these days. As an outsider, I am a logical candidate to fill that role. And I rule that Trump and the GOP/supporters under Trump are way worse :)

(08-02-2018, 06:20 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I can get that there might be a desire to return fire after being attacked, but unfortunately, that comes with the territory. People don't like getting bad moves and since time began have usually attacked the messenger for delivering bad news. So, no matter how unfair the criticism, I don't think it's a news organizations place to return fire. Instead, continue reporting facts and the truth and let the chips fall where they may.

I find it hard to argue with that. CNN should behave a bit differently (though I have to say that guys like Anderson Cooper, in my eyes, are not in senseless attack mode and seem professional enough to me). I said I don't "take issue", more precise would have been to say I am not surprised by it.

--

(08-02-2018, 06:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Seriously? You've never heard anyone question Fox News validity? You've never heard people call it "Faux News"?

Yeah even I have heard that. Blew a huge hole in my whole "no one but Trump calls the media fake news" stance.

[Benton]

(08-02-2018, 06:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, you've got me confused with someone that condones Trump's statements toward the media. I simply disagreed with your assertion that the hate is all on the right.

In this instance, it is. Which is why the statement 'the left is just as bad' doesn't hold water.

Quote:We've recently seen folks attacked verbally with hate while trying to have dinner with friends and families, we've seen Maxine Water's 'call to action". There are countless other examples.

What's that have to do with the right's attack on a free press?

Quote:Asserting the hate is one-sided is shortsighted (at best) IMO and only you know if that shortsightedness is intentional or not.

I don't know about shortsightedness, but I know about relevancy. And Maxine Waters has none when it comes to the right's vitriol toward the press.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 06:30 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yes. (At this point I usually claim how the two-party system is the root of the problem, so imagine a 300-line rant here.)

I got good news for you: I agree completely. So no rant needed.

(08-02-2018, 06:30 PM)hollodero Wrote: Also, sure not indicative of either side. You would need a referee to decide who's worse these days. As an outsider, I am a logical candidate to fill that role. And I rule that Trump and the GOP/supporters under Trump are way worse :)

I honestly don't care who is worse since both sides are so eager to do it, but I would think that it's usually the case that which party's candidate is president is probably the determining factor in who's the worse hypocrite. So, i would agree that Trump supporters are most likely bigger hypocrites right now as were Obama supporters when he was in office and so on. 

(08-02-2018, 06:30 PM)hollodero Wrote: I find it hard to argue with that. CNN should behave a bit differently (though I have to say that guys like Anderson Cooper, in my eyes, are not in senseless attack mode and seem professional enough to me). I said I don't "take issue", more precise would have been to say I am not surprised by it.

Fair enough.

(08-02-2018, 06:30 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah even I have heard that. Blew a huge hole in my whole "no one but Trump calls the media fake news" stance.

[BmorePat87]

(08-02-2018, 05:33 PM)hollodero Wrote: Didn't Nixon call the media the enemy? I think I heard something like that. Still not "enemy of the people" or "real enemy of the people compared to Russia" or anything like that, but the mdia being in a president's crosshairs didn't start with Trump or with Obama (and isn't typical for the US alone to begin with). I'd figure.

He said that the press was his administration’s enemy in a private conversation

[*bfine32*]

(08-02-2018, 06:40 PM)Benton Wrote: In this instance, it is. Which is why the statement 'the left is just as bad' doesn't hold water.


What's that have to do with the right's attack on a free press?


I don't know about shortsightedness, but I know about relevancy. And Maxine Waters has none when it comes to the right's vitriol toward the press.

I actually said the hate comes from both sides, when you asserted that no one is taking away the right's right to hate. You came back with the thoughtful "No it's all on the right". But somehow, someway showing where the left has openly displayed examples of hate is not relevant to the discussion. 

This is just about general hate on both sides; however, if you want to make it media specific: I'll just have to take you at your word that you've never heard anyone spew hate on the conservative media.

But as I said keep believing that. It can only help the conservative ticket that the right is too far gone to recognize their hate. 

[hollodero]

(08-02-2018, 06:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I honestly don't care who is worse since both sides are so eager to do it

Normally, neither would I. But normally I wouldn't even be here.
Trump isn't normal though. That the tribalism goes that far that people are defending all of his actions, even the most grim ones, was always beyond me and in a sense will always be beyond me. Though I get it incremental step after incremental step.

Also, that 80% of Republicans are in love with him. Tolerating is one thing. Thinking he is the greatest president ever is the other, more scary thing.

It's why I say one side is worse. I don't mean to be snarky by that. I just don't believe a Democrat's Trump is imaginable. Most liberal folks would jump ship way earlier. Says me without proof, but I think that's true.

(08-02-2018, 06:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He said that the press was his administration’s enemy in a private conversation

Yeah thanks, found it in the meantime. He said it to his aides, so semi-privately. But sure, not in public.

[Benton]

(08-02-2018, 06:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Seriously? You've never heard anyone question Fox News validity? You've never heard people call it "Faux News"?

Well, yeah. That's a given.

By any media measuring I've seen — from left leaning to right leaning to non-partisan industry groups — Fox News has traditionally led the way in reporting errors. Intentional or otherwise, it doesn't really matter. When you're consistently ranked as 60-80% false, you earn that nickname.

That's not a partisan issue, that's an inept or intentionally misleading newsroom. I don't know which, and it doesn't really  matter.

And that's still not the same thing as what the right is doing with media in general. 

Quote:https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/01/11/obamas-white-house-2009-dont-pretend-fox-news-is-a-legitimate-news-organization/

The link didn't like my browser and kept crashing.

I've criticized Obama's openness with the media in the past (and I believe this thread). Whatever you linked and whatever I've criticized him on before is not the same as calling the press the enemy of the people.

If I criticize your haircut, it's not the same as saying the people who part on the right are out to get you.
If I criticize your job, it's not the same as saying everyone who works there is an enemy of freedom.

As for the comment, you left out the back and forth between the two that had gone on for months. Like where Wallace called the administration the biggest bunch of crybabies after they opted not to invite Fox during a series of talk shows after Fox called Obama a neoNazi racist after... it goes on and on. Fox itself relished the "opponent" comment and used it as a marketing tool in selling advertising.

And, guess what... a spokesperson getting in a dig is still not the same as a sitting POTUS repeatedly calling them an enemy of the people. 

Quote:Yes, me saying Trump has been far worse than anyone before him is me saying "the left is just as bad". 

I don't recall you saying that. I do recall you saying:

Quote:I didn't say Obama had constant attacks on Fox News. I said the left did. I just said the left included Obama.

...which in no way is you saying "Trump has been far worse than anyone before him is me saying."

I'm pretty sure the you didn't even mention Trump there in all the Obama & the left comments.

[Benton]

(08-02-2018, 07:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I actually said the hate comes from both sides, when you asserted that no one is taking away the right's right to hate. You came back with the thoughtful "No it's all on the right". But somehow, someway showing where the left has openly displayed examples of hate is not relevant to the discussion. 

This is just about general hate on both sides; however, if you want to make it media specific: I'll just have to take you at your word that you've never heard anyone spew hate on the conservative media.

But as I said keep believing that. It can only help the conservative ticket that the right is too far gone to recognize their hate. 

To the bold, the discussion was about the media. If you want to dig up a comment about Maxine Waters not liking shellfish, or Obama hating on ice hockey... go for it... both are irrelevant to the issue. 

And I don't think the right doesn't recognize it, I just don't think they care. If they did, why not try to clean up their party? Why keep embracing it, or at the least condoning it?

[*bfine32*]

(08-02-2018, 07:13 PM)Benton Wrote: To the bold, the discussion was about the media. If you want to dig up a comment about Maxine Waters not liking shellfish, or Obama hating on ice hockey... go for it... both are irrelevant to the issue. 

And I don't think the right doesn't recognize it, I just don't think they care. If they did, why not try to clean up their party? Why keep embracing it, or at the least condoning it?

Guess we'll just disagree with what the discussion was about; as I viewed it to be about hate, unless those chanting were members of the media. 

Furthermore, your response of "no one is taking away the right's right to hate" speaks to general hate.

Not sure that anything was "dug up" as I consider the examples I cited to be quite current and really didn't have to research "dig up" to find them.

So you can look at your comment about the hate being all on the right and most the goalposts to make it seem to more rational, but it's not. 

Remember when Pat got mad at me earlier in the thread for suggesting folks were bringing POTUS into this. I can only imagine how mad he is at you for continually bringing in those "enemy of the state" comments. Unless......

[Benton]

(08-02-2018, 07:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Guess we'll just disagree with what the discussion was about; as I viewed it to be about hate, unless those chanting were members of the media

They were chanting it at the media. Take autopilot off?

[*bfine32*]

(08-03-2018, 12:00 AM)Benton Wrote: They were chanting it at the media. Take autopilot off?

As I said: I get why you're trying to explain your statements, but it doesn't change your statements:

[Benton]

(08-03-2018, 12:18 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: I get why you're trying to explain your statements

No, you don’t. If you aren’t even aware who is making comments in the video, I don’t think you’re qualified to analyze message board posts.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 07:07 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, yeah. That's a given.

By any media measuring I've seen — from left leaning to right leaning to non-partisan industry groups — Fox News has traditionally led the way in reporting errors. Intentional or otherwise, it doesn't really matter. When you're consistently ranked as 60-80% false, you earn that nickname.

That's not a partisan issue, that's an inept or intentionally misleading newsroom. I don't know which, and it doesn't really  matter.

And that's still not the same thing as what the right is doing with media in general. 

It IS the same thing and trying to make it a 'fact' that Fox News if "fake news" is exactly what Trump is doing. Heck, I could use the same rationale you've just given for Fox News but for CNN and you'd HAVE to agree with me that CNN deserves its "fake news" moniker. You're using the SAME rationale Trump is for calling Fox News fake news. Yet, for some reason, it's wrong when Trump does it to CNN but it's okay for you and others to do so to Fox News.

(08-02-2018, 07:07 PM)Benton Wrote: The link didn't like my browser and kept crashing.

I've criticized Obama's openness with the media in the past (and I believe this thread). Whatever you linked and whatever I've criticized him on before is not the same as calling the press the enemy of the people.

If I criticize your haircut, it's not the same as saying the people who part on the right are out to get you.
If I criticize your job, it's not the same as saying everyone who works there is an enemy of freedom.

As for the comment, you left out the back and forth between the two that had gone on for months. Like where Wallace called the administration the biggest bunch of crybabies after they opted not to invite Fox during a series of talk shows after Fox called Obama a neoNazi racist after... it goes on and on. Fox itself relished the "opponent" comment and used it as a marketing tool in selling advertising.

And, guess what... a spokesperson getting in a dig is still not the same as a sitting POTUS repeatedly calling them an enemy of the people. 

Fox News didn't call anyone anything. Some people at Fox News, sure. But that's besides the point. Your analogies fail. We're not talking about people criticizng Fox News when they falsely report a story or a commentator spews nonsense. We're talking about people claiming Fox News is not real news because of those instances. It's analogous to someone going ot Applebee's and getting treated poorly and then claiming all Applebee's have bad servers and the food is crap etc.
To be sure, there have been many legitimate critiques of news stories, personalities, etc of Fox News, but I'm not talking about those.  I am talking about the far too many who have routinely an dsystematically dismissed any and every Fox News story as illegitimate. Basically, they treated Fox News as Trump treats every other news organizatoin other than Fox News (though, Trump takes it up a thousand degrees).

(08-02-2018, 07:07 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't recall you saying that. I do recall you saying:

...which in no way is you saying "Trump has been far worse than anyone before him is me saying."

I'm pretty sure the you didn't even mention Trump there in all the Obama & the left comments.

Must've missed this, then. 

(08-02-2018, 05:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Sure, the left wasn't as bad, but they still tried to discredit Fox News as a news organization.

Or this:

(08-02-2018, 04:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not blaming Obama. I blamed the "left" which includes Obama. And, sure, Trump is far worse in his treatment of the press than what the left has done to Fox News, but the fact that you're denying they did anything even remotely similar to what Trump has done is, frankly, kind of surprising. 

Or this:

(08-02-2018, 04:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Of course Trump is way worse than Obama was or any leftist has been.

What's interesting is that 2 of those responses were direct responses to YOU. 

[GMDino]

(08-03-2018, 05:19 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It IS the same thing and trying to make it a 'fact' that Fox News if "fake news" is exactly what Trump is doing. Heck, I could use the same rationale you've just given for Fox News but for CNN and you'd HAVE to agree with me that CNN deserves its "fake news" moniker. You're using the SAME rationale Trump is for calling Fox News fake news. Yet, for some reason, it's wrong when Trump does it to CNN but it's okay for you and others to do so to Fox News.

Fox News didn't call anyone anything. Some people at Fox News, sure. But that's besides the point. Your analogies fail. We're not talking about people criticizng Fox News when they falsely report a story or a commentator spews nonsense. We're talking about people claiming Fox News is not real news because of those instances. It's analogous to someone going ot Applebee's and getting treated poorly and then claiming all Applebee's have bad servers and the food is crap etc.
To be sure, there have been many legitimate critiques of news stories, personalities, etc of Fox News, but I'm not talking about those.  I am talking about the far too many who have routinely an dsystematically dismissed any and every Fox News story as illegitimate. Basically, they treated Fox News as Trump treats every other news organizatoin other than Fox News (though, Trump takes it up a thousand degrees).

Must've missed this, then. 

Or this:

Or this:

What's interesting is that 2 of those responses were direct responses to YOU. 

If Trump is really against "fake news" and not all media...why doesn't he say anything about the fake news on FOX?

He seems to call anything that is critical of him "fake news".  Any story that didn't think his Helinski trip was very successful, any story that points out his job growth in 2017 was less than 3 or 4 ears of the Obama presidency, any story that hurts his ego is "fake".

But FOX can say/do anything without much blowback....unless a talking head criticizes him.

If having one or two stories turn out to be false is the criteria for labeling ALL of CNN or MSNBC or whoever "fake" then you're right that FOX falls into the same category...minus the vitriol from the POTUS.

And above and beyond all that FOX news doesn't just get their reputation for being biased/fake out of thin air.  As I said earlier in the thread it's their blurring the line between the little bit of news they do and the whole lot of opinion they do.  (To show how old I am I'll mention that Paul Harvey did the exact same thing for years on the radio.)

They insist they are telling you the "truth". But when an entertainment show/opinion host gets caught in a lie/spin they insist it was just their opinion....they aren't "news".

Whether their actual news segments have a conservative slant I can't attest to personally as I haven't watched much of any of these stations in years.  But back in the day if there was a "liberal scandal" it was breaking news.  If there was a "conservative scandal" it was give a few seconds after a story about how bikinis are making a come back. 

And when the POTUS tweets the stories on FOX opinion shows as "proof" or "news" it just blurs the lines further.

[Belsnickel]

(08-03-2018, 05:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: If Trump is really against "fake news" and not all media...why doesn't he say anything about the fake news on FOX?

He seems to call anything that is critical of him "fake news".  Any story that didn't think his Helinski trip was very successful, any story that points out his job growth in 2017 was less than 3 or 4 ears of the Obama presidency, any story that hurts his ego is "fake".

But FOX can say/do anything without much blowback....unless a talking head criticizes him.

If having one or two stories turn out to be false is the criteria for labeling ALL of CNN or MSNBC or whoever "fake" then you're right that FOX falls into the same category...minus the vitriol from the POTUS.

And above and beyond all that FOX news doesn't just get their reputation for being biased/fake out of thin air.  As I said earlier in the thread it's their blurring the line between the little bit of news they do and the whole lot of opinion they do.  (To show how old I am I'll mention that Paul Harvey did the exact same thing for years on the radio.)

They insist they are telling you the "truth". But when an entertainment show/opinion host gets caught in a lie/spin they insist it was just their opinion....they aren't "news".

Whether their actual news segments have a conservative slant I can't attest to personally as I haven't watched much of any of these stations in years.  But back in the day if there was a "liberal scandal" it was breaking news.  If there was a "conservative scandal" it was give a few seconds after a story about how bikinis are making a come back. 

And when the POTUS tweets the stories on FOX opinion shows as "proof" or "news" it just blurs the lines further.

Let's also not overlook Trump and his affinity for InfoWars, one of the fakest fake news sites in existence.

[BmorePat87]

(08-03-2018, 06:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Let's also not overlook Trump and his affinity for InfoWars, one of the fakest fake news sites in existence.

Or the fact that an election commission was established by him based off of a false claim from infowars

[Benton]

(08-03-2018, 05:19 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It IS the same thing and trying to make it a 'fact' that Fox News if "fake news" is exactly what Trump is doing.

No. I've said — along with about every non-partisan media metric — that they are in error a great deal of the time. That's not fake news, that's sloppy or intentionally misleading reporting.

But pointing that out isn't the same as Trump, for a handful of reasons. The most obvious is I'm not the POTUS. I'm just a lowly newspaper editor. Whether he wants it or not, he's held to a higher standard. It's also not the same as I'm not just picking out those who I disagree with, or those who say mean things about me.

It's like when some folks call racism over everything. It's not crying racism when you point out actual racism. It's not crying fake news when you point out bad reporting.

Quote: Heck, I could use the same rationale you've just given for Fox News but for CNN and you'd HAVE to agree with me that CNN deserves its "fake news" moniker.

I don't like the fake news craze and the Nazi legacy it comes from, but I'll gladly say CNN makes plenty of biased or factual errors. About half as many as Fox in most audits (20-25%). It's one of the lowest, but to me, that's still way too many.

Quote: You're using the SAME rationale Trump is for calling Fox News fake news. Yet, for some reason, it's wrong when Trump does it to CNN but it's okay for you and others to do so to Fox News.



Fox News didn't call anyone anything. Some people at Fox News, sure. 

If the agency allows it to recur, the agency is to blame. Period.

I've had reporters that made mistakes. We all do, it's not a problem. You correct it and move on. But if a reporter makes the same mistake twice, they're fired. If they repeatedly fail to vet info, they're fired. 

Fox like all outlets is made up of its people. Condoning or maintaining those comments is the agencies voice.

Quote:But that's besides the point. Your analogies fail. We're not talking about people criticizng Fox News when they falsely report a story or a commentator spews nonsense. We're talking about people claiming Fox News is not real news because of those instances.

My focus is more on Trump and the media, the whole "stop attacking Fox News" really isn't the point here. Neither was Obama. If you want to keep discussing Fox we can, but an admittedly partisan news source might not be the best thing to focus a discussion on as the overwhelming majority of the media isn't super left or super right.

It really doesn't have to be Obama's fault and it really doesn't have to do with the continuous errors by Fox News.

Quote: It's analogous to someone going ot Applebee's and getting treated poorly and then claiming all Applebee's have bad servers and the food is crap etc.

Well, that's analogous to Fox's prerogative. It was mostly a marketing ploy, though. They sold hundreds of millions in advertising saying they were the voice of the right that wasn't being represented on those liberal news channels. The problem was, back then, there largely wasn't any media bias and there was no push to capture a market. You had a handful of news channels that were mostly impartial. The partisan push was just a sales tool developed by Ailes.

Quote:To be sure, there have been many legitimate critiques of news stories, personalities, etc of Fox News, but I'm not talking about those.  I am talking about the far too many who have routinely an dsystematically dismissed any and every Fox News story as illegitimate. Basically, they treated Fox News as Trump treats every other news organizatoin other than Fox News (though, Trump takes it up a thousand degrees).


Must've missed this, then. 

Or this:

Or this:

What's interesting is that 2 of those responses were direct responses to YOU. 

It's harder to miss things when you don't throw in "but Obama" to begin with. You aren't making bad points, they just have nothing to do with Trump and the right's current approach to media.

[GMDino]

(08-03-2018, 06:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Let's also not overlook Trump and his affinity for InfoWars, one of the fakest fake news sites in existence.

(08-03-2018, 06:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Or the fact that an election commission was established by him based off of a false claim from infowars

True and true.  I was just focusing on the more mainstream "news" stuff.  

I always have trouble deciding if Trump believes conspiracy theories (Obama is from Kenya for example) or if he just makes up his mind that something is true after hearing it once (the Central Park Five for example) and refuses to admit he's wrong.