Biden vs. Trump debate

[Dill]

(07-01-2024, 04:42 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 1. Can you agree that Biden DID NOT steal the 2020 election, and that Trump DID try to steal it?  

Sure - I'll take a shot at it. Myself, I don't think the election was stolen. BUT, election day was pretty suspect the way it was handled due to Covid. That's what there are people who are suspicious.

You only answered half the question.

(07-01-2024, 04:42 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: .2. What sort of damage has Biden done that exceeds Trump's two impeachments and coup attempt, plus the divisions
he's created in our intel services?

The border is a fiasco. He created it through executive orders to overide Trumps policies. He also stopped building the way. His withdrawal from Afghanistan was the worst, including the 13 service members killed. And also the way we failed to protect the citizens who put their lives in danger to help the troops over there. Also, we owe a huge apology to the women in Afghanistan. Who the hell trusts the Taliban and takes their word for anything? These women went from having rights and the ability to get an education, to being prisoners in their own country. These are just a few of his FUBARS. 

Terms like "fiasco" are not very precise. I'm trying to review and compare Biden and Trump's border policies.
Seems the main difference is that Biden did things like stop stop separating parents from children and then send the parents
back home without them.  Trump invoked Title 42 to expel some 400,000 people. Biden kept it in force and expelled two million.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65574725?scrlybrkr=1ce9ec23

If the border is so bad, why would Trump and MAGA Republicans tank a bill addressing it? 

(07-01-2024, 04:42 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: His withdrawal from Afghanistan was the worst, including the 13 service members killed. And also the way we failed to protect the citizens who put their lives in danger to help the troops over there. Also, we owe a huge apology to the women in Afghanistan. Who the hell trusts the Taliban and takes their word for anything? These women went from having rights and the ability to get an education, to being prisoners in their own country. These are just a few of his FUBARS. 

I agree the withdrawal from Afghanistan was bad. But it hardly rates with past military fiascos like the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut or even the withdrawal from Vietnam.   

I was NOT for withdrawing from Afghanistan. Both Trump and Biden were. And in my view, the central problem of the withdrawal was that the government there collapsed before the US withdrawal was complete. I don't see why Trump doesn't share part of the blame for everything you mention here, since he negotiated the US pullout directly with the Taliban (Trump trusted them), cutting out the government. That undermining was the prime reason for its premature collapse. 

Nothing in Biden's border handling or withdrawal from A-stan appear illegal; the problems associated with them look like the problems which usually follow from intractable difficult situations. Attempting a coup is something else, and indicates a willingness to lie massively and go outside the law to keep power. It just looks like we weight that differently--you still seeing Trump as someone deserving of trust, who really didn't do anything all that bad.