Biden vs. Trump debate

[hollodero]

(07-02-2024, 12:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think a large part of the disconnect regarding how to define the events of 01/06 and other attempts is that the Dems grossly overstate how serious the event was while Trump supporters grossly understates the events.  Also, while there were certainly participants who knew what they were doing was wrong, there was a sizeable contingent who legitimately believed the election was stolen, a coup as well.

Of the two groups I think the election stealers side is the more egregious one, but both groups really muddy the waters which, ironically rather downplays the events overall.

Well, in this instance I feel you are downplaying the events by pointing to others allegedly contributing to said downplaying of the events. Imho, there's a point where Democrats overstating things, groups muddying the waters or the earnesty of the Capitol rioters can not really factor into the evaluation. Which is why I'm rather unconvinced by all those side fronts. Also, I have a hard time accepting the overstating the event's importance part. I can not even imagine that a chancellor here who lost an election would knowingly send violence-prone supporters to our parliament with a stolen election lie, and then would do nothing but send incendiary tweets while the parliament is already stormed and gallows are erected for someone who does not comply with chancellor's unlawful wishes of not certifying the results. This is actually stuff for the history books - including that Trump went off that free of consequence and sailed through the next primary.

The whole picture of the coup attempt, of course, goes even beyond Jan 6 and Trump's deeds and wishes on that day, it's also (and maybe even more clearly) Raffensperger and fake electors and then some. I'm fairly convinced that pretty much everyone would have called these things in their total sum a coup attempt in theory, without knowing about R or D and before they actually took place. It's only now that the R people rather imply that it was not that bad and the real scandal is that Democrats did not let Jim Jordan on the Jan 6 committee etc. All legitimate critizisms of faulty liberal narratives aside, I feel this is an instance where the conservative side deserves critizism for deflecting and belittling Trump's coup attempts by all rhetorical means necessary.

Which is also why I would keep asking what to call a clear effort to overthrow an unfavorable election, if not a coup attempt (eg because the military was not involved or because it did not succeed or whatever reason there is for not calling it a coup).