Monday Night Massacre

[Dill]

(02-02-2017, 04:24 PM)djam Wrote: The statistics? The statistics show that with voter ID's the democrats would probably never win. That actually says a lot, and thats part of the problem with the democrat party. It shouldn't be that way and its pretty sad that is it. I dont trust either side when it comes to voter fraud, but I do believe that the democrat party would benefit from it big time compared to the republican party. Otherwise the left would want voter ID's. In fact if the majority of minority voters voted republican you'd be all about voter ID's and feel like its stupid to not have them for something as important as voting. 

You BELIEVE that the Democrat Party would benefit, therefore THERE MUST BE millions of fraudulent voters. That is the whole foundation of your argument. Never mind that just believing doesn't make it so, and that ANY party would benefit from millions of fraudulent votes.

If my argument were simply the mirror of yours, I would be saying that because millions of fraudulent votes would help Republicans, then THERE MUST BE millions of fraudulent votes. But my argument is not the mirror of yours, because my claims require the sort evidence that can be substantiated by independent parties regardless of what anyone believes.

The statistics, which you now seem to grant, show that in some places (not all) Republicans could shave percentages off vote totals to win using voter id laws.

The "problem" here is, therefore, for the Republicans, who cannot get those vote totals when all who can and want to vote do vote. If you truly recognized the right of all adult citizens to vote, it would not appear "sad" that Democrats can win when all who want to vote do vote. It would appear sad that some Republicans advance undemocratic solutions when they cannot persuade enough voters to win.

In your final statement, you are again flipping your position and values and projecting them onto your opponents.

Finally, I will say that in 33 states now voting is overseen by Republican Secretaries of State. After working to make sure elections are fair, they very much resent unsubstantiated claims of millions of fraudulent votes.
http://www.salon.com/2016/10/18/donald-trumps-rigged-election-talk-rebuked-by-republican-secretaries-of-state/
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-election-rigging-by-gop-3bea26109db4#.tabhtdsp0