Decency, Trump and Obama.

[hollodero]

(03-07-2017, 03:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I am a Trump supporter because I don't care what size papers he puts in folders, if KMart stops carrying his daughter's products, or if he agrees to use steel already purchased to build pipelines;

About the things you mentioned as reason why you're a Trump supporter. First off, I think these are rather weak reasons to support someone. But whatever. I myself really am not portraied correctly as a "liberal" or as Obama/Hillary/Democrat supporting folk. I really am not. I would not have cared too much whether Hillary or let's say Marco Rubio would have been elected. I am not a liberal in the sense you use that word, I am a "leftist" maybe, but these are terms bound to domestic policies, and I do not care too much about how you shape your society. Had Rubio beaten Hillary, I would probably post once a month in this forum and would keep reading Jungle Noise. Not to unnecessarily talk about myself here, I just want to make clear where the following remarks are coming from.

That being said. I do agree that these things you mentioned maybe might not matter too much on the bigger scale. However. I feel it's not entirely fair to call those who have a problem with that simply "butt-hurt". You're simply going too partisan here. I can see why these things anger people. The least important one is the steel thing, but even there, why does Trump blatantly lie about that one? It's as if people were stupid suckers, it really is, when he just says "well we use American steel" when clearly it doesn't work that way. And the only excuse is sheer incompetence, not knowing about the existing deal before claiming such things. Or he just lies to people he considers more stupid than him. One of these two.
This playing the people for suckers - and again, I am not from "the other side" here - is also obvious regarding these paper in folders things. It might not matter too much, taken for itself, I agree. But you need to understand why people are angry about that. Trump in fact never really cut ties with his businesses, he obviously used props and just again went with the lie - and even if it's unimportant, what the heck? This whole handing his business over to his sons is BS. Simply as that, it is BS, it's not ethical, it shows no devotion to his new task. Why do the American people now have to pay for his sons' protection when they fly all over the world conducting his businesses for him. Why does he have a hotel for diplomats, where obviously these diplomats now book his hotels as a gesture of good will to your president. Why have the fees for Mar-a-Lago membership now doubled, what kind of shady thing is that. Again, this is not coming from a Hillary supporter. It's just from the outside. This is all BS.

Now OK, politicians are shady, we in Europe have shady dealings going on too. So, whatever. One thing I can say for sure though. If any Western European politician would have the impertinence to use his office to publicly slam a private business for not selling his daughter's stuff - which obvioulsy was done for mere economic reasons - if a politician here would dare to behave like that, publicly shaming them, with this whiny tweets as if his daughter was molested by that - he would not survive another day politically. And honestly, rightfully so. Now while I might bring myself to agree the two other points might be disregarded - this Nordstrom affair is too much. If you disagree, just ask yourself, what if Obama had done that. I know this argument is lame, but still, what if Michelle had a line and Obama would have gone public shaming private businesses who don't sell it.
That is simply not acceptable. Maybe you disagree. But proving an open mind really would mean to just understand that people who are angered about that are not simply "butt-hurt". This line of thinking, this form of schadenfreude clouds your clear, unbiased vision here. That's how I feel. No disrespect, really.

Additionally, there are several other points already discussed in length. Where you, a respectable, but die-hard conservative in my books, always end up in this "butt-hurt" accusations. Tax returns might not matter, but a man of honor would have stuck to his word. And so on. He is a liar, he gets his intelligence from Breitbart (you're too smart not to know that this source is not an acceptable one for a president), he agitates, he makes baseless claims, he lies and decieves way more than your average politician (and yes, they all do), he is unprepared, clueless, and hand on heart - and you deep down have to know that somehow - he's not that bright to begin with, not smart enough to run the country in the most important job of the world. This might be blunt. But well, it's obvious not just to me, but to virtually everyone from the outside.

(03-07-2017, 03:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: however, this is the 3rd issue in his short Presidency that I take issue with. The first 2 being his remarks toward the press and the Judicial Branch 

OK. I find these issues, especially the 3rd issue to be a major proof he is unfit for the burden and responsibility the office brings. I acknowledge and respect your seeing the problems here.
Why can't you bring yourself to the conclusion that Trump is totally unfit. There's not a reason to believe he will "learn". It's not that the liberals would be winning if you would see it that way - if he got removed for he shames the office, the country. If he were removed, you would get Pence, a man no liberal would want in office. But please for heaven's sake, you need to see that. I am not against you or the conservative stance, I have no chips in this game to begin with, when saying so. It's just intangible.