Decency, Trump and Obama.

[hollodero]

(03-12-2017, 08:11 PM)Dill Wrote: But you have admit, Hollo, "worse" IS different. So Bfine has a point.

True.

(03-12-2017, 08:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Many of the points you make above aren't really points to Trump supporters. If they get their conspiracy news from Breitbart and Infowars, then it is hardly a knock against the Commander-in-chief that he prefers those sources to professional intelligence services and their boring, carefully vetted, analyzed and cross-examined intel product.  Why would foreign policy and spec ops be any different or any worse if based on Breitbart? And even if it is worse, how does that affect us at home?

I know a bunch about pure alt-right supporters (never forget, we Austrians more or less are patient zero) and mainly see them as lost causes. Fortunately they are not the complete voter base, though. And no matter how different you look at things than bfine (and michaelsean, MikeM, JustWinBaby and some others I now forget), I guess you need to give them a bit more credit - like I do. Say what you want, but bfine is not getting his infos solely from Breitbart and I guess doesn't take Alex Jones seriously. Those people are plainly too intelligent for that. Denying that and throwing everyone in one alt-right pot isn't helpful, it just deepens the trenches and more and more "moderates" (meaning not alt-rightist Bannon fans) get lost. I know for I saw that happening. (In the end the alt-right governing disaster helped bringing them back here, only to forget all too quickly. I guess it will happen in the US too and Trump won't get reelected - but then again, it depends on how estranged people get.)

Now US-specifically speaking, they need to claim their party back from the hostile alt-right takeover, I said that often, but it's true. They are the ones who lost the election too, they just don't realize it yet. The die-hard Trumpist is not adressed. The point gets lost often, not least because of my own affection to satyre and exaggeration, in opposition; kind of a fallback into mere anti-liberal (or mere anti-conservative) argueing patterns and bickering. We're all sometimes guilty of that. But in the end, "we" often only get "them" to throw their goggles back on. Which results in fevereshly forging arguments to deny what is really clearly open for everyone to see about Trump. We would keep repeating ourselves if I would point out what I mean.

(03-12-2017, 08:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Trump supporters like Trump's entrepreneur daughter. Now they think you don't. And they don't care if she sits in on high level talks with world leaders, and they don't care if he insults those leaders. He is letting them know that America is first now.

Oh I do like her. It's probably because I can be quite shallow... I don't need to hear her talk for that, it probably helps if I don't. But that's one of the few things where I agree with Trump. She is indeed how he described her, of course in a manner no father should ever describe his daughter. No real point there, just sheer shallowness, talk about sun's corona.

(03-12-2017, 08:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Instead of treating allies and trading partners who deal fairly with us as equals--LET'S STAND UP TO THEM! Let them know that American is not messing around. We mean business. The world is on notice. (This includes you, Austria! We see you there hiding behind the Swiss Alps!)  If our Allies and partners don't like that, there is nothing they can do about it.

Hm yeah, I was quite surprised when Trump claimed every country takes advantage of you, including mine, obviously. Really, we played you? I was so proud.
In general, we don't see you as equals. We see you as superior. If there's anything good for Europe, than maybe that we learn to get rid of that thought and start standing on our own feet more. Politically, militarily, culturally. I'd appreciate that.
Plus, we don't hide behind Swiss Alps, we have Alps of our own to hide behind. We hide behind the fact that we get mistaken for Australia.

Oh btw. have you noticed who Trump wants to appoint as Austrian ambassador? A guy whose qualification consists of having seen "Sound of Music" over 70 times. Boy, this guy will be disappointed.

-- Sorry for leaving some parts out.