Decency, Trump and Obama.

[hollodero]

(03-13-2017, 02:16 AM)Dill Wrote: I don't think I am throwing all this forum's Trump defenders in the same alt-right pot. E.g., I don't regard Justwin as a Trump supporter at all, just someone who takes a rightist view of economics.

Yeah right, I shouldn't have mentioned names, I don't pretend to know these guys and normally I wouldn't really intend to. Wasn't my hottest outpour to begin with.

(03-13-2017, 02:16 AM)Dill Wrote: If Trump takes Breitbart and Infowars more seriously than his own intel services, and if, after that, Trump supporters still take him seriously, then the issue is not really whether they actually read Breitbart and Infowars or read it at all, or have other sources.

Hm. Get it. But I still think there lies a clue, for it's all about argueing he is not to be taken seriously. Never found a better one, at least.
I have no intenton to urge conservative people to change their views, for who am I to do that. I feel a strong intention to urge alt-right defending people to change their views though, for the obvious dangers to, well, humankind that comes with Bannonism.
- So if one can argue that the president acts as mouthpiece for Breitbart or Alex Jones (who now obviously is some kind of Trump adviser, probably on Sandy Hook conspiracy and gay frog issues), sensible people might actually think a bit harder about that one. While, as is demonstrated widely, they don't really are inclined to do so regarding other quite valid points (valid to us at least), as your follow-up post shows. They seem to snap back to the defending state; which, of course, is mind-boggling.


To more important things:

(03-13-2017, 03:17 AM)Dill Wrote: I have never seen the phrase "accurate count" is stretched so far out of whack as here.

There is very little voter fraud in the U.S.--less than 200 incidents nationwide in the last twenty years, and 33 Republican governors will sign off on that claim, based on recorded investigations and court records.

But Trump claims 3,000,000-5,000,000 fraudulent votes were cast in the last election. With no evidence, no intent to investigate.

I don't really need an "accurate count of voter fraud" to judge Trump's claim a wild exaggeration, horrifically bad judgment.  But you are comfortable with the unsupported claim. You won't say it's not possible, that he is lying or unstable or both. You are keeping an "open mind."

Same for "no idea" above. The president of the US cannot order a wire tap on a citizen. If there WERE evidence of wire-tapping it would have been a gift for Trump, a massive vindication, and the biggest blot on the Obama presidency. Trump could have made three phone calls to settle the wire tapping issue, but he has not, or he has chosen not to tweet the answer.

So I do have an idea whether Obama ordered a wire tap.

Yeah. Seconded. It's really not logical to see it any other way, no matter the political stance.