Decency, Trump and Obama.

[Dill]

(03-15-2017, 07:01 AM)hollodero Wrote: And the alt-right governed administration can have "success", not because of Trump, but in spite of him, for there's a conservative agenda, conservatives who believe they use and play Trump. Which is not the case. They get played and used. And the republican voter base gets played and used, too. They need to see that. Should Trump get reelected, it might be over, and they lose too. That's the mistake, to think you could contain the alt-rights in the long run. In my country, voters ultimatively run away (mainly to the conservatives), but you only have the democrats where they can run to, and many will never bring themselves to do that, not even to being complicit to a democrat win by not voting at all. The notion of "avoiding the liberal win" in the United States might be the biggest alt-right chance to raise to sustainable power and shape the world. That's what's so scary.

That's also why you need to bring out the moderates, maybe even the conservatives - and those who do not vote, which is half the population. Or you need a new party, whatever, but you need to change your ways of thinking and talking politics. Or we all, even in Europe, face a huge danger.

And that's why you need a different way of talking, I see it here and everywhere, I see the "left" making the same mistake over and over again they also make here, which I make as well, which is being arrogant, condescending, the more sensible human being with the better values, all that, and trying to win the argument no matter what. I see the media staring at the phenomena like the rabbit stares at the snake and not knowing what to do - except doing exactly what I described. They all exaggerate things too, don't make the right points, turn to arrogance, get attackable and that's how fascists (for lack of a better term) can raise.

I share the same fears that you do. It's like the resolve of '45 to never let this happen again has been forgotten.

And the past is so distance now that many in the present find the lessons of history unreadable. That old-style authoritarian demagoguery playing peoples hopes, racial stereotypes, and economic fears--and its consequences--has no parallel to today's authoritarian demagoguery playing to peoples' hopes, racial stereotypes, and economic fears.

One element of that old-style demagoguery was how it made people out of power feel empowered, listened to, and appreciated. It identified listeners with a powerful leader and re-awakened, rejuvenated state--taken back from the liberals who had weakened it to be made strong again by the leader's resoluteness.

The one positive side of the current conjuncture is that the US is not presently in a depression, nor does the population feel deeply humiliated by a war loss which saddles it with guilt and crippling reparations.  Some things that Trump is doing now, like cutting the State Dept. and EPA, will very soon increase resistance to his presidency with consequences threatening to previously apolitical segments of the US population.

It is Trump's own policies which will bring out the moderates--not anything specifically that liberals or leftists or Democrats or journalists may say to them.  Which is good because I agree with you, the media appears helpless. They expose aspects of Trump politics that should bring down a leader in a democracy, but to no effect. This is because Trump's supporters do not care how badly he behaves, and the Republican establishment needs their support to get their non-Trump agenda ratified.

It is very hard to discuss the p***y grabber who back in the '90s called reporters pretending to be his own publicist, and then led the birther movement and still thinks 3-5 million people voted illegally and wants to bring back torture. How do you even mention all that without seeming arrogant and condescending? And why should you (the journalist) be faulted for "condescending" if you look askance at this behavior? Why should this, um, 'extraordinary' candidate be so normalized?

What produces adherence to Trump does not seem amenable to the usual policy arguments based upon data, logic and policy knowledge. My thinking is that journalists and others with public voices should continue to prevent the normalization of Trump's behavior and policies, and keep clear alternatives before a heretofore complacent public as they come to awareness that by not voting at all, or maybe voting for Trump for "change", they have put their private interests and the national interest at risk.