Helsinki--the Tipping Point?

[Dill]

(07-18-2018, 12:25 AM)hollodero Wrote: I don't know if you're not falling for a pseudo argument here (strong, defending the country etc.). That is used if it seems effective, which doesn't mean it's imperative. Benton just mentioned an uninformed meme generation, and I think that's what we're dealing with when really talking the "base". They take anything in as an argument and selectively search for them. And there are enough providers.  One can see the spin already. He only tries to make peace with Russia, he is so smart and doesn't fall for media naratives and for the propaganda about Putin that was stuffed in our heads by hateful leftist ideologists in the media etc. etc.

Pretty sure I am not falling for it. But I am saying others have and continue to. The "strong leader" criterion has always been a priority for authoritarian personalities. And it has been a leading theme in Trump speeches, building on years of Fox claims Obama was "weak." All Trump's rants about weak trade deals and the Iran deal were premised on weak leaders not being tough enough and giving the store away. Not going to happen under Trump. Who is going to pay for the wall, Hollo?

I agree the base is generally uniformed. (Why is it a problem if Trump talks with the president of Taiwan?) But the lack is cross-generational.  Further, the base is disinformed. That is why so many claim the choice between Hillary and Trump was between equally bad candidates. That isn't just absence of information, but the presence of disinformation.

(07-18-2018, 12:25 AM)hollodero Wrote: I see. They really run that?
It seems you come to agree with me that FOX news has to find a conscience and save the country. I still see them as crucial. And you're right, if they can't go along any more, than I'd say the tipping point is reached. I just have my doubts, I just took a peek at yesterday's Hannity show and he's already on full "Trump did great in Helsinki, media leftists deep state" mode.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/16/putin-eats-trumps-lunch-in-helsinki-this-is-no-way-to-win-against-russia.html

Yes, much depends on Fox. And Fox is more than Hannity, who has by far the deepest investment in Trump and, it could be argued, some direct influence over domestic and foreign policy. Horrors! 

Some of the more professional journalists at Fox will have much difficulty continuing as before. Of course there will be effort to repair this damage among the base. What I am saying is 1) the repair will not be complete (both Trump and Hannity are desperate), 2) the next unforced error will prove easier to address and more divisive,  and 3) the stage is now set for continual erosion of support, the breakdown of the bubble--barring war or similar mass disaster which requires everyone to set aside criticism.