03-27-2019, 09:25 AM
(03-27-2019, 01:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Only if you are extremely insecure or paranoid to begin with.
Personally I have never felt the need of a gun to empower me. I can accomplish what I want without the need of a gun.
What an extremely jaundiced view of my post. Nowhere did I say that anyone needs the gun to be empowered. I said knowing how to use one is empowering. A guy who knows how to defend themselves is naturally more confident. An 80 year old woman who lives on her own would naturally feel safer and more confident if she had a firearm she knew how to use.
(03-27-2019, 05:46 AM)hollodero Wrote: That's not fair. It's not about actually doing something with the gun. It's more about being able to handle one if the necessity should arise. I live in a widely gun-free society and never held or shot a gun, I also don't feel the need to change that. But I understand the empowerment sentiment and can sympathize to an extent. It sure isn't a sign of extreme insecurity or paranoia and that's just not fair to say.
(Now don't get me wrong, I still believe the lenient US gun laws are borderline crazy. But that's not the point)
Fair isn't a concern in this type of argument, although I appreciate you pointing out the biased viewpoint. Knowledge about anything is empowering. Knowledge about something that could potentially save your life is even more so. I used the comparison of a physically fit guy who can defend himself. That kind of person is far safer to be around than an insecure guy. If you've ever been out to a bar, which I know you have, it's always the insecure a-holes who are trying to start fights, not the guy who is confident in his ability to handle himself.
(03-27-2019, 07:09 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well, that's kinda scary. That people can use a gun to make themselves "confident". I mean if someone has been threatened and beaten and feels they can't defend themself and they need a weapon to "empower" themself I can see that. It might make someone feel confident that they have "leveled" the playing field.
You say it's "kinda scary" and then acknowledge why being confident in the use of a firearm can, and is, empowering. No responsible firearms owner is yearning for the chance to use them, but they are confident in their ability to do so should the need arise.
Quote:But I've been an overweight guy my entire life, never fired a gun either, and I'm pretty self-confident and have pretty good self-esteem because I base that on what I can do and don't pay attention to people who say I'm worth less than them because I can't do other things. I don't worry that the next guy will be better than me (even if they are).
It's odd that you can proclaim something with such certainty and then admit you've never fired a gun in your life. How can you intelligently comment on something you've never experienced?
Quote:What SSF describes is what I find most wrong with the gun nuts: The guns define them and make them "better" than they would be without them.
Outstanding pejorative. Up to then we were actually having a reasonable discussion. In no way shape or form did I imply that firearms define me or anyone else. You inferred that on your own and it's rather apparent you did so based on your own personal prejudice.
Quote:I'm sure they are fun (I know guys who go to machine gun events and who love shooting any time) and I think in many cases they are even necessary. I don't want to take anyone's guns away from them. But I also don't think that someone should have one just to feel "empowered" in life. Especially when so many men (mostly) feel so empowered they use their guns to settle disputes rather than handling them any other way.
What you're describing in your last few sentences is not someone who is empowered, you're talking about someone who lives in fear. Zimmerman is a perfect example if I can play armchair psychologist. There is always going to be a minority who use a gun to feel powerful and will use that power over others. This is not the same thing as being empowered, at all. The first enables your insecurities and the second mitigates or erases them.
