Do you believe; and why?

[Lucidus]

(05-15-2019, 12:49 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course the words matter; but l'll take you at your word that you didn't notice.  

As to asking begging for forgiveness; it's your personal relationship. IMO, if you believe and confess it publicly, it's forgiven long before you ask beg. 

When you say it's a "personal relationship" - may I ask in what ways? For example has God ever interacted with you in way that are actually demonstrable, or is it an intuition on your part? The reason I ask is because the personal aspect of the God - believer relationship seems to rather different than what we mean when talking about any other personal relationship in our lives. 

(05-15-2019, 01:28 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I wasn't speaking for them, merely summarizing their answers and inquiring why you choose to ignore their answers (faith) in search of answers they aren't providing (evidence).

As I started in the OP; I rather enjoy exploring the "why" of things, and moreover, I find the conversations to be interesting and thought provoking on many occasions. This thread has gone very well in my opinion. People have shared opinion, exchanged ideas and asked questions -- and all in a very civil and respectful manner. I think it has been, and continues to be, an intriguing discussion. I'm not sure what your objection is to inquiry, as it is a most useful toll in all exchanges or dialogue.

If I ask someone why they believe and the answer is "faith" -- I feel obliged to follow up and delve into why that is and how they came to that reasoning. The same holds true when someone asked me why I don't believe and I answer that I currently see no good reason to do so. It would be perfectly acceptable for that person to wonder why that is the case and what led me to that decision. 

If conversations simply ended at initial "why" and "because" -- without any further dialogue, what deeper understanding would we ever gain about each other?

(05-15-2019, 02:39 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I think I'm starting to understand what you're asking.

There is no empirical evidence that you seek, there is only anecdotal evidence and personal testimony. This anecdotal evidence is only true to the subject and is only there as that subjects own testimony.

There is no process that you go through to come to a belief or to gain Faith, it just happens...at least for me it did but I'm one that has always believed in God for as long as I remember. It wasn't until I was 21 that I started to understand and learn. My Faith continues to grow as does my learning and understanding and will continue until I die, it will never end.

I hope this answers your question because it's the best I've got.

Thank you for the response. 

I agree that there is no empirical evidence, and I find that to be a huge problem for such audacious and extraordinary claims. I simply cannot place stock in testimony that is anecdotal and/or emotional in nature. It's simply too subjective (as you alluded to) and can be easily mistaken. I simply can't rationalize a belief in something for which there is no reliable or verifiable proof.

The "faith" thing has always been somewhat of a curiosity to me, as it pertains to religious context, not faith in the colloquial sense. I see it as the suspension of rationality in order to justify the wish / hope that it's true. 

My position has never been to declare that there is no God; only that I see no evidence to think it's the case or justify belief in it. For me personally, I see no reason to believe that a God exists until it can be demonstrated to be the case. Personally, if it can't be demonstrated, I feel non-belief in such a proposition is the justifiable default.