03-06-2016, 01:25 AM
Jim, I think where much of the confusion lies for some of us is why a lot of things are brought up (By Geoff) when discussing the cap. I'm not sure what the practice squad has to do with our cap space.
Practice squad: Technically, a team doesn’t have to have one. Technically, they don’t need to have the maximum 10 players on it. All teams do, though. They make just over $100K a year individually = about a million. They have to paid somehow. And it does count against the salary cap.
Per the official language of the CBA: Practice Squad contract Salaries shall be included in Team Salary.
And while I don't doubt each team, depending on where they draft, has 6-7 million budgeted for rookies, I don't understand what that figure has to do with our remaining cap dollars.
Say we draft 7 rookies. Only 3-5 of them are going to count against the cap (Top 51). So while the total for all of their respective 2016 salaries is in that range (6-7 mil) it's not what will count against us. And the biggest thing I take issue with him writing it in the way he does is he never accounts for who these rookies will replace. Some incoming players will mean existing players will come off the books. Veterans gets cut, all of who usually make more than the 2nd and 3rd round guys. So I mean, really, how much are we adding (if anything at all)?
It just seems a tad dishonest. If he were writing about the total payroll of the 2016 rookie class, then yeah, sure, it's right on the money. Setting that amount to the side makes zero sense though.
The rookie pool is fixed, so that never will change. But it’s not just a one-for-one. Like, Josh Shaw coming in at $558K and T. Newman off the books at $2 million = Bengals were +$1.4 million. Technically, yes, but Leon Hall’s salary went up $900K, Dalton’s went up $500K … so there’s that difference. Money moves around.
I can’t really go through all the rosters and salaries from year to year, but that matters. And honestly, it does affect roll over room. Like, the Bengals rolled over $8,697,310 from 2014 into 2015 to sign A.J. Green. Perhaps some of that was left over from when they cut Westbrooks and because Geathers walked. Who knows?
Fwiw, I thought many of these teams had those bonuses already accounted for in the "likely to be earned" category?
They do – but you also have to have the money available for the bonuses no one expects to be earned. Honestly. Let’s say Eric Winston had a bonus for a % of snaps played. Well going into 2015 no one would think he would meet that. But say Whit got hurt and he played 15 games. He earned it. Well, you need the money to pay it. Likely? No. But still have prepare that you have to. It’s in the contract.
All I'm saying is plenty of teams are up against the cap every year. Say within 5 mil. I can't think of any team that just sets aside the money we do for these expenses. And why the team's writer (again, Geoff) references practice squad salaries I don't know. It seems as relevant to the cap conversation as toiletries and things like a Cincinnati Water Works bill.
Say what you want about how they do their math – in 2015 the NFLPA recorded that the Bengals spent $136,954,631 on 58 contracts by the time the league year ended, leaving the $7,587,902 left over to apply to the extensions they want to work out this summer.
In reality, the Bengals paid 83 men to wear their uniform in 2014 at some point. Some were just practice squad. Some were just practice squad for just three weeks. But that’s 83 guys whose money counted, at some point, against the operating cash that year. It had to be accounted for.
By contrast, in 2015, the Bengals paid 72 guys to participate because it was a much healthier year. You can’t predict that, but you have to have the money to handle a boat load of injuries. Banner, who ran the Browns and Eagles, say he set aside that money. And he's plugged in. When he says the average is $1-5 million set aside, I believe it.
Just a final point….
No team other than the Packers has to open its books. Unless ownership does that for a writer, you’re not going to hear about it or see it, really.
Honestly, the fact that Hobson, or myself in this case, has some of this information is … very, very rare. No other fan base, really, can complain about this knowledge because they don’t have it. Is it better to not know what they’re working with? Look at what Miami did today with all those restructures. Pretty much every NFL expert worth his salt said this was a disaster for the Dolphins in a year or two. But, they had to do it to get some space. The Bengals never have to do that stuff.
Now if MLJ and Iloka walk, I would want the Bengals to make a serious effort to replace at least one of them via FA. Preferably MLJ because Shawn Williams looks good and rookie WRs often take time to develop. Trevathan would be nice too, but that's a pipe dream. Btw...isn't it a little sad that a mid-tier FA like Trevathan is just a pipe dream for Bengals fans? Ugh.
Honestly, yes. You would think the team would sign a upper-middle tier difference maker occasionally. But I also covered the Packers for three years and this is the same lament their fan base has – and they’ve landed Charles Woodson and Julius Peppers in the last 10 years. But that’s it. Seriously. We know the names, but that’s literally it. So I guess they’ve signed two more upper-middle tier difference makers at that point (but they were in their 30s, no one wanted to sign them – only Ted saw that they had something left.)
Practice squad: Technically, a team doesn’t have to have one. Technically, they don’t need to have the maximum 10 players on it. All teams do, though. They make just over $100K a year individually = about a million. They have to paid somehow. And it does count against the salary cap.
Per the official language of the CBA: Practice Squad contract Salaries shall be included in Team Salary.
And while I don't doubt each team, depending on where they draft, has 6-7 million budgeted for rookies, I don't understand what that figure has to do with our remaining cap dollars.
Say we draft 7 rookies. Only 3-5 of them are going to count against the cap (Top 51). So while the total for all of their respective 2016 salaries is in that range (6-7 mil) it's not what will count against us. And the biggest thing I take issue with him writing it in the way he does is he never accounts for who these rookies will replace. Some incoming players will mean existing players will come off the books. Veterans gets cut, all of who usually make more than the 2nd and 3rd round guys. So I mean, really, how much are we adding (if anything at all)?
It just seems a tad dishonest. If he were writing about the total payroll of the 2016 rookie class, then yeah, sure, it's right on the money. Setting that amount to the side makes zero sense though.
The rookie pool is fixed, so that never will change. But it’s not just a one-for-one. Like, Josh Shaw coming in at $558K and T. Newman off the books at $2 million = Bengals were +$1.4 million. Technically, yes, but Leon Hall’s salary went up $900K, Dalton’s went up $500K … so there’s that difference. Money moves around.
I can’t really go through all the rosters and salaries from year to year, but that matters. And honestly, it does affect roll over room. Like, the Bengals rolled over $8,697,310 from 2014 into 2015 to sign A.J. Green. Perhaps some of that was left over from when they cut Westbrooks and because Geathers walked. Who knows?
Fwiw, I thought many of these teams had those bonuses already accounted for in the "likely to be earned" category?
They do – but you also have to have the money available for the bonuses no one expects to be earned. Honestly. Let’s say Eric Winston had a bonus for a % of snaps played. Well going into 2015 no one would think he would meet that. But say Whit got hurt and he played 15 games. He earned it. Well, you need the money to pay it. Likely? No. But still have prepare that you have to. It’s in the contract.
All I'm saying is plenty of teams are up against the cap every year. Say within 5 mil. I can't think of any team that just sets aside the money we do for these expenses. And why the team's writer (again, Geoff) references practice squad salaries I don't know. It seems as relevant to the cap conversation as toiletries and things like a Cincinnati Water Works bill.
Say what you want about how they do their math – in 2015 the NFLPA recorded that the Bengals spent $136,954,631 on 58 contracts by the time the league year ended, leaving the $7,587,902 left over to apply to the extensions they want to work out this summer.
In reality, the Bengals paid 83 men to wear their uniform in 2014 at some point. Some were just practice squad. Some were just practice squad for just three weeks. But that’s 83 guys whose money counted, at some point, against the operating cash that year. It had to be accounted for.
By contrast, in 2015, the Bengals paid 72 guys to participate because it was a much healthier year. You can’t predict that, but you have to have the money to handle a boat load of injuries. Banner, who ran the Browns and Eagles, say he set aside that money. And he's plugged in. When he says the average is $1-5 million set aside, I believe it.
Just a final point….
No team other than the Packers has to open its books. Unless ownership does that for a writer, you’re not going to hear about it or see it, really.
Honestly, the fact that Hobson, or myself in this case, has some of this information is … very, very rare. No other fan base, really, can complain about this knowledge because they don’t have it. Is it better to not know what they’re working with? Look at what Miami did today with all those restructures. Pretty much every NFL expert worth his salt said this was a disaster for the Dolphins in a year or two. But, they had to do it to get some space. The Bengals never have to do that stuff.
Now if MLJ and Iloka walk, I would want the Bengals to make a serious effort to replace at least one of them via FA. Preferably MLJ because Shawn Williams looks good and rookie WRs often take time to develop. Trevathan would be nice too, but that's a pipe dream. Btw...isn't it a little sad that a mid-tier FA like Trevathan is just a pipe dream for Bengals fans? Ugh.
Honestly, yes. You would think the team would sign a upper-middle tier difference maker occasionally. But I also covered the Packers for three years and this is the same lament their fan base has – and they’ve landed Charles Woodson and Julius Peppers in the last 10 years. But that’s it. Seriously. We know the names, but that’s literally it. So I guess they’ve signed two more upper-middle tier difference makers at that point (but they were in their 30s, no one wanted to sign them – only Ted saw that they had something left.)
Beat writer for Cincinnati.com & The Enquirer. Follow along on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and Periscope.
