More Supporting Evidence

[NATI BENGALS]

For my belief that the GOP is in bed with Russia.

I’d love to be shocked that it turns out there is missing classified intelligence related to Russia. But I’m not. This was a blockbuster of a story for me today.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/12/politics/missing-russia-intelligence-trump-dg/

Probably not all of the GOP is in bed with our enemy. At least I hope.
But we see what party is blocking aid to Ukraine.

We see what party was celebrating the 4th of July in Moscow in 2018
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/395719-gop-senators-visited-moscow-on-july-4/

We see what American political party is getting praise on Russian state run tv.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/12/12/russian-state-media-gop-mitch-mcconnell-ukraine-ebof-vpx.cnn

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Yeah, but the media that these people choose to consume have them convinced that their fellow Americans are a bigger threat to their beliefs and their way of life than the sworn enemies of America. So in their minds about your evidence . . . "what's the big deal? I'm more concerned about Hunter Biden"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-16-2023, 12:32 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: For my belief that the GOP is in bed with Russia.

I’d love to be shocked that it turns out there is missing classified intelligence related to Russia. But I’m not. This was a blockbuster of a story for me today.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/12/politics/missing-russia-intelligence-trump-dg/

Probably not all of the GOP is in bed with our enemy. At least I hope.
But we see what party is blocking aid to Ukraine.

We see what party was celebrating the 4th of July in Moscow in 2018
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/395719-gop-senators-visited-moscow-on-july-4/

We see what American political party is getting praise on Russian state run tv.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/12/12/russian-state-media-gop-mitch-mcconnell-ukraine-ebof-vpx.cnn

Let's try looking at this logically.  What possible benefit is there for the GOP to "be in bed" with Russia?  What do they gain?  What do they stand to lose if they get caught?  If you look at this assertion with even basic common sense then you cannot come to any other conclusion other than this is a specious allegation and more hyper partisanship.

[JustWinBaby]

(12-16-2023, 09:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Let's try looking at this logically.  What possible benefit is there for the GOP to "be in bed" with Russia?  What do they gain?  What do they stand to lose if they get caught?  If you look at this assertion with even basic common sense then you cannot come to any other conclusion other than this is a specious allegation and more hyper partisanship.

This is too logical of a take for this forum.

[BigPapaKain]

(12-16-2023, 09:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Let's try looking at this logically.  What possible benefit is there for the GOP to "be in bed" with Russia?  What do they gain?  What do they stand to lose if they get caught?  If you look at this assertion with even basic common sense then you cannot come to any other conclusion other than this is a specious allegation and more hyper partisanship.

They gain money, and since most of them have shown all they care about is money, that's all they need.

They stand to lose nothing because a solid third of this country will vote R, regardless of stances, criminal record, overseas bed fellows, or anything else for that matter.

[*pally*]

NBC News confirms: The Senate Intelligence Committee was briefed two years ago that a binder containing highly classified information related to Russian election interference had gone missing in the waning days of the Trump administration.

The binder contained highly classified…

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) December 16, 2023

[jfkbengals]

(12-16-2023, 09:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Let's try looking at this logically.  What possible benefit is there for the GOP to "be in bed" with Russia?  What do they gain?  What do they stand to lose if they get caught?  If you look at this assertion with even basic common sense then you cannot come to any other conclusion other than this is a specious allegation and more hyper partisanship.

(12-16-2023, 10:46 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: They gain money, and since most of them have shown all they care about is money, that's all they need.

They stand to lose nothing because a solid third of this country will vote R, regardless of stances, criminal record, overseas bed fellows, or anything else for that matter.

One of my incredibly rare posts in this forum.

According to my Russian co-workers, the entire Ukraine invasion is about an incredibly large cache of Lithium underground in that country.  A game changing amount.  Keep the Dems out of power so they can't interfere and the Russians can get the natural resources and contract with/sell to the GOP owned/operated companies.  Basically to set up another Haliburton in Iraq type of situation.

For the record, the co-workers I refer to came from Siberia and are ultra right because anything left of that means the Soviet Communism that put their family there to begin with.

[NATI BENGALS]

(12-16-2023, 09:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Let's try looking at this logically.  What possible benefit is there for the GOP to "be in bed" with Russia?  What do they gain?  What do they stand to lose if they get caught?  If you look at this assertion with even basic common sense then you cannot come to any other conclusion other than this is a specious allegation and more hyper partisanship.

Not for certain but I have some guesses. It absolutely is hyper partisan because Republicans are turning a blind eye to one of the two major threats to our spot as #1. If this was democrats turning a blind eye to a nuclear armed foe wiping out a country who is a democratic ally.... ffs imagine the outrage.

Why are they soft on our cold war enemy who is currently involved in military operations all across the globe that go against American interest?

Why did they change their party platform before electing a guy who is as soft as it comes on Russia? And now almost the entire party is soft on an enemy the old republican party would be all about standing up against.
https://www.latimes.com/world/la-na-pol-ukraine-gop-20160720-snap-story.html

Same guy is still the party leader. Same guy whose first campaign manager was involved in propping up Russian interests in Ukraine, before Russia helped his boss get elected. Turns out the leader of the GOP pardoned this guy (Manafort) who was propping up Russian interests in Ukraine long before Ukraine became a much much larger issue.

Guesses
#1 Money
#2 Power
#3 Russia's support in spreading disinformation in order to win elections
#4 Something much more devious

Now let me ask one.
What possible benefit to the USA is there to let Russia eliminate a democratic country in Europe?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-17-2023, 01:20 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Not for certain but I have some guesses. It absolutely is hyper partisan because Republicans are turning a blind eye to one of the two major threats to our spot as #1. If this was democrats turning a blind eye to a nuclear armed foe wiping out a country who is a democratic ally.... ffs imagine the outrage.

Why are they soft on our cold war enemy who is currently involved in military operations all across the globe that go against American interest?

Why did they change their party platform before electing a guy who is as soft as it comes on Russia? And now almost the entire party is soft on an enemy the old republican party would be all about standing up against.
https://www.latimes.com/world/la-na-pol-ukraine-gop-20160720-snap-story.html

Same guy is still the party leader. Same guy whose first campaign manager was involved in propping up Russian interests in Ukraine, before Russia helped his boss get elected. Turns out the leader of the GOP pardoned this guy (Manafort) who was propping up Russian interests in Ukraine long before Ukraine became a much much larger issue.

Guesses
#1 Money
#2 Power
#3 Russia's support in spreading disinformation in order to win elections
#4 Something much more devious

Now let me ask one.
What possible benefit to the USA is there to let Russia eliminate a democratic country in Europe?

Wow, this really is a Gordian knot of Dem talking points. Let's break it down using your own criteria.

1.  Money-  where's the money from Russia to the GOP?  Please supply a source.

2.  Power-  Russia has difficulty projecting power to neighboring countries, what "power" are they projecting to the US?

3. Spreading disinformation-  I assume you have proof to back this claim.  If so, please support the claim.  And if so, is it only in support of the GOP and is it out of proportion to what any country is doing?  Because I recall Russia doing exactly jack shit while Trump was POTUS.  This is not to laud Trump as POTUS, but it doesn't exactly support your claim that the GOP is "in bed" with Russia.

4.  Ooooo, a nebulous point that proves nothing while claiming everything.  You'll have to try harder than not at all.

I don't support Russia vs. Ukraine, a simple look at my past posts will prove this.  But your assertion is grounded in utter bullshit.  Your partisan blinders have led you to make a post on GA9 levels of inanity.  One would hope this would give you pause.

[NATI BENGALS]

(12-17-2023, 03:16 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wow, this really is a Gordian knot of Dem talking points. Let's break it down using your own criteria.

1.  Money-  where's the money from Russia to the GOP?  Please supply a source.

2.  Power-  Russia has difficulty projecting power to neighboring countries, what "power" are they projecting to the US?

3. Spreading disinformation-  I assume you have proof to back this claim.  If so, please support the claim.  And if so, is it only in support of the GOP and is it out of proportion to what any country is doing?  Because I recall Russia doing exactly jack shit while Trump was POTUS.  This is not to laud Trump as POTUS, but it doesn't exactly support your claim that the GOP is "in bed" with Russia.

4.  Ooooo, a nebulous point that proves nothing while claiming everything.  You'll have to try harder than not at all.

I don't support Russia vs. Ukraine, a simple look at my past posts will prove this.  But your assertion is grounded in utter bullshit.  Your partisan blinders have led you to make a post on GA9 levels of inanity.  One would hope this would give you pause.

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/

By power, I mean the power hungry. People doing the wrong thing in search of it. Maybe they have had some level of success and now want more.

I guess I shouldn’t have called it disinformation. A better word would probably be psychological warfare.
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/18/903616315/senate-releases-final-report-on-russias-interference-in-2016-election
And all of that digging has gone into this report, and the committee concludes that Russia conducted a sophisticated and aggressive campaign to influence the U.S. election to help Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton and that folks on Team Trump were more than happy to accept help from the Russians. But what's really important about that conclusion is that it is a bipartisan one. It is endorsed by both Democrats and Republicans.
And then they tried again in 2020.

Well i don’t know a nice way to put it. It could be ugly. Like a terrible DC movie with Gaetz, Boebert, Marjorie, Jordan and co headlining the Legion of Doom in an evil plot with the Russians to take over the world.

[WiregrassBenGal]

The lithium under Ukraine that someone wrote about makes lots of sense to me. The movie "Vice" kind of spelled out that Chaney was running things during the "W" years, and Halliburton was his thing.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-17-2023, 08:31 AM)WiregrassBenGal Wrote: The lithium under Ukraine that someone wrote about makes lots of sense to me. The movie "Vice" kind of spelled out that Chaney was running things during the "W" years, and Halliburton was his thing.

We already have what's believed to be the largest known deposit of Lithium in the world here in the US in Nevada, and a US company is the big player in both Chile and Australia's lithium mining. We're already set without needing any Ukranian or Russian stuff.

[NATI BENGALS]

The leader of the GOP repeating the leader of Russia (our enemy). Once again the leader of the GOP bashing the USA by using the platform given to him by GOP voters.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-praises-dictators-rails-immigrants-sparking-backlash/story?id=105725220
"Putin of Russia says that Biden's, and this is a quote, 'politically motivated persecution of his political rival' is very good for Russia because it shows the rottenness of the American political system, which cannot pretend to teach others about democracy,'" Trump said at the rally. "So we talk about democracy, but the whole world is watching the persecution of a political opponent that's kicking his ass."

[M.W.]

You can supply all the evidence you want but sadly, many folks can't see the forest through the trees. Imagine trying to convince a child in 1990 that Hulk Hogan was a bad guy. Remember that alternative facts matter too.

[Stewy]

(12-17-2023, 08:31 AM)WiregrassBenGal Wrote: The lithium under Ukraine that someone wrote about makes lots of sense to me. The movie "Vice" kind of spelled out that Chaney was running things during the "W" years, and Halliburton was his thing.

(12-17-2023, 05:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We already have what's believed to be the largest known deposit of Lithium in the world here in the US in Nevada, and a US company is the big player in both Chile and Australia's lithium mining. We're already set without needing any Ukranian or Russian stuff.

While very true, all of those discoveries you mentioned have been made in the last 10 years before the above conspiracy theory.

Also, while McDermitt Caldera is the largest lithium deposit in the world it isn't the one that will be exploited first in the US because the deposit under the Salton Sea is the Lithium deposit with the highest concentration in the world.  So in the US we have the largest by volume and highest concentrated Lithium deposits in the world.  However, due to the higher concentration, it is likely that the Salton Sea deposit will be commercial first due to economics.  However, the Salton Sea extraction has unique challenges due to being extremely high temperature, active geothermal and aqueous.

Bottom line, in the present day, we don't "need" the worlds Lithium.

[*Nately120*]

(12-17-2023, 11:14 PM)M.W. Wrote: You can supply all the evidence you want but sadly, many folks can't see the forest through the trees.  Imagine trying to convince a child in 1990 that Hulk Hogan was a bad guy. Remember that alternative facts matter too.

That doesn't work for me, brother.

[BigPapaKain]

(12-17-2023, 11:14 PM)M.W. Wrote: You can supply all the evidence you want but sadly, many folks can't see the forest through the trees.  Imagine trying to convince a child in 1990 that Hulk Hogan was a bad guy. Remember that alternative facts matter too.

That's what happens when you work yourself into a shoot, brother.

-HH

[Dill]

(12-17-2023, 05:31 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I guess I shouldn’t have called it disinformation. A better word would probably be psychological warfare.
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/18/903616315/senate-releases-final-report-on-russias-interference-in-2016-election
And all of that digging has gone into this report, and the committee concludes that Russia conducted a sophisticated and aggressive campaign to influence the U.S. election to help Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton and that folks on Team Trump were more than happy to accept help from the Russians. But what's really important about that conclusion is that it is a bipartisan one. It is endorsed by both Democrats and Republicans.
And then they tried again in 2020.

Well i don’t know a nice way to put it. It could be ugly. Like a terrible DC movie with Gaetz, Boebert, Marjorie, Jordan and co headlining the Legion of Doom in an evil plot with the Russians to take over the world.

No. "Disinformation" is perfectly good word here, though all the interference was not that.

I think the more interesting question than "what does the GOP have to gain?" is

what does Putin have to gain if Trump and Republicans are in power?

What does Putin see in a Trump-led GOP that advances his interests as leader of an autocratic state
with pretensions to super-power status? His vote is for Trump, but I don't think it's because he wants a tax cut
or a wall on the southern border or to Make America Great Again or because Joe Biden "lied" about HB's laptop.

As far as the GOP being in bed with Putin, I wouldn't treat the party as a monolith. There are still enough old fashioned
cold warriors who want nothing to do with Russia, right alongside MAGA faithful who will like Russia if Trump does and
because it explodes liberal heads--no deeper than that. Then there is religious right component who have much in common with the religious politics of Putin's Russia, and see advantage in various civil alliances.

[Dill]

(12-17-2023, 11:14 PM)M.W. Wrote: You can supply all the evidence you want but sadly, many folks can't see the forest through the trees.  Imagine trying to convince a child in 1990 that Hulk Hogan was a bad guy. Remember that alternative facts matter too.

Indeed they do.

Without them Trump would not be leading Biden in the polls right now.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-17-2023, 05:31 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/

By power, I mean the power hungry. People doing the wrong thing in search of it. Maybe they have had some level of success and now want more.

I guess I shouldn’t have called it disinformation. A better word would probably be psychological warfare.
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/18/903616315/senate-releases-final-report-on-russias-interference-in-2016-election
And all of that digging has gone into this report, and the committee concludes that Russia conducted a sophisticated and aggressive campaign to influence the U.S. election to help Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton and that folks on Team Trump were more than happy to accept help from the Russians. But what's really important about that conclusion is that it is a bipartisan one. It is endorsed by both Democrats and Republicans.
And then they tried again in 2020.

Well i don’t know a nice way to put it. It could be ugly. Like a terrible DC movie with Gaetz, Boebert, Marjorie, Jordan and co headlining the Legion of Doom in an evil plot with the Russians to take over the world.

Putin loathes Hillary, it's really not more complicated than that.  

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-putin-hates-hillary-clinton-n617236

"It’s because the former KGB operative hates Trump’s Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton, with such a passion that he wants to embarrass her personally and undermine — if not derail �— her presidential campaign, they say.



For a Russian leader who is considered as vain as he is ruthless, Clinton’s criticism long ago crossed over from the political into the personal. He carries a grudge against a woman who has publicly compared him to Hitler and expressed doubts that he has a soul."


Now, let's examine some unassailable facts.  Putin didn't do jack shit when Trump was POTUS.  Annexed Crimea under Obama's watch.  Invaded Ukraine under Biden's.  The facts don't support Trump being in bed with Putin.  The facts do support Putin not knowing how Trump would react, likely badly, to Putin pulling any of his crap.  Trump openly advised, and criticized, the EU for being too dependent on Putin for energy and not having a strong enough military to stand up to him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trump-slams-germany-at-nato-summit-says-its-a-captive-of-russia.html

“Germany is totally controlled by Russia … They will be getting between 60 and 70 percent of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline, and you tell me if that is appropriate because I think it’s not,” Trump said, before criticizing Berlin’s failure to significantly increase defense spending.



“I think it is a very bad thing for NATO and I don’t think it should have happened and I think we have to talk to Germany about it. On top of that, Germany is just paying a little bit over 1 percent (on defense) … And I think that is inappropriate also,” he added."


Yeah, totally sounds like a guy who's in league with Putin.

The only disinformation being pushed here is by the people still striving to link Trump and Putin in some kind of Faustian pact.