(05-22-2025, 06:38 PM)schroomytunes Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree I think the line is much more improved over last year. Is it a top end unit? No but I do think it is in that 15ish range. IMO. Brown only played 3 games last year so I really don't even count him.
Starters: OBJ, Fairchild, Karras, Patrick, Mims
Backups: Ford, Lee, Volson, Rivers, Cochran
PS/PUP: Kirkland, McLaughlin, Etienne, Steuber
FA: Jedrick Wills- he's still young, maybe not a great fit in Cleveland. he could be a guy to take a gamble on and see on a 1 yr deal
The thing that gives me pause w/ Wills is Peters spent 3 years w/ him in CLV and doesn't seem to want him. I would have loved for Peters to come in and banged the table for Jed
I can't believe all these players we thought would surely get cut Moss, Stone, Volson are returning, and it's been decided before training camp even started.
(05-23-2025, 08:44 AM)jj22 Wrote: [ -> ]I can't believe all these players we thought would surely get cut Moss, Stone, Volson are returning, and it's been decided before training camp even started.
It could still happen. A lot of time for things to change before the season begins.
(05-23-2025, 09:21 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: [ -> ]It could still happen. A lot of time for things to change before the season begins.
I don't think they'd get guaranteed money if they were going to get cut still. But maybe. I thought when Moss restructured there was still a chance he'll get cut but the more this happens and the more they give guaranteed money to these supposed fringe roster players I'm thinking it means they stick.
(05-22-2025, 05:13 PM)samhain Wrote: [ -> ]It's been said that Volson is favored by the staff. This was true of Pollack for sure and probably extends up the chain. I heard Rapien talk about it the other day. He's the type of player that keeps his head down, doesn't run his mouth, and works his butt off.
This is bad IMO. His talent level is still below average. He's got literally everything you want except talent. Sometimes the off-field and intangible stuff are overrated. It seems like a forest for trees thing with the staff. He's really great at every aspect of being a pro football player without actually being good at football.
No doubt. It's just, they haven't signed 2 Guards that are obvious upgrades.
As I don't have to build a roster with a salary cap, a lot of fans just look at it like get the best player at every position. But, you just can't. That said, I think there are guys out there now like Scherff that could be signed that are upgrades.
The think is, Volson is a $3.8 million cap hit. You waive him and use that money and a little more and get Scherff.
But, I don't know. Maybe Scherff wouldn't come here.
(05-22-2025, 10:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]The thing that gives me pause w/ Wills is Peters spent 3 years w/ him in CLV and doesn't seem to want him. I would have loved for Peters to come in and banged the table for Jed
You could say the same about Scherff from their time together in Washington.
(05-22-2025, 06:38 PM)schroomytunes Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree I think the line is much more improved over last year. Is it a top end unit? No but I do think it is in that 15ish range. IMO. Brown only played 3 games last year so I really don't even count him.
Starters: OBJ, Fairchild, Karras, Patrick, Mims
Backups: Ford, Lee, Volson, Rivers, Cochran
PS/PUP: Kirkland, McLaughlin, Etienne, Steuber
FA: Jedrick Wills- he's still young, maybe not a great fit in Cleveland. he could be a guy to take a gamble on and see on a 1 yr deal
IDK if we carry 10 OL this year or not. 9 may be the number.
Agree on the starters: OBJ, Fairchild, Karras, Patrick, Mims. Or at least that is who they envision starting. But they aren't sure because they cheaped out in FA and only signed a borderline starter (Patrick) and waited until the 3rd forca guard (Faichild) who they *think* will start but are not sure.
So keeping Volson & Ford as insurance is now mandated. Of course, somply releasing Volson + Moss would have likely paid for Hernandez or Risner (or Jenkins), and maybe even Scherff. Pratt + Volson or Moss surely would.
And of course, Burrow has offered to restructure as well. And the Chase/Higgins deals could have saved another $11 mil in cap.
$19 for Burrow resteucture, $11 for Chase/Tee, and around $12-$13 for Pratt/Moss/Volson releases. Mikey does not have the cash flow for all 3, but I don't think 1 of 3 was asking to much.
This way, Mikey can claim limited space in Trey negotiations and then claim all the FAs worth signing are gone when we finally release Pratt, and pocket the money for a year.
We'll never win anything while Mike & Katie are in charge.
(05-22-2025, 05:28 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not a big believer in the ability of coach Peters to turn mediocrity into magnificence. NE sucked last year, their OL sucked, and he got fired.
Fairchild + Patrick with Ford, Volson, & Rivers as backups could be better than last year, but not by much.
And OT depth is actually worse with Brown gone.
Now, we are certainly healthier at some spots (CB), but not all (TE).
On paper, atm, most improved: NT, LB, RB, DE, OG, C depth.
Same: QB, WR, PK P, LS.
Worse: CB (better health, worse depth), S depth, OT depth, 3T, TE (All injury).
Now, I get we are counting on some improvement from some younger players (Iosivas, Burton, Jenkins, Jackson, D. Hill, Turner, Newton, Battle), and scheme/coaching cjanges to help us, but I really don't think we improved much roster-wise.
Our biggest "gains" have been in signing our own FA's (Higgins, Hill, Gesicki, Ossai, Ford, C. Sample, Rehkow, Adomitis), and extensions (Chase, D. Hill 5th year).
Not a big fan of any of the salary cutting renegotiations. Stone is the most understandable, as he is a starter AND has a productive NFL history, and we have zero S depth. But Moss & Volson are backups..Much rather have had the full $$ and turned that into another G, or S, or paying Trey. Perhaps 2 of 3.
I question the value of the new coach as well. Last time I checked, the Bengals are a football team. They aren't a Brazilian jiu jitsu organization. IDGAF about MMA when it comes to protecting Burrow. I want a competent OL. If NFL OL play was as simple as taking mid rounders and borderline starters then teaching them MMA horseshit we'd have it made. I hate to break it to you guys, but it probably isn't.
You can bring whatever gimmicks you want. If you can't teach guys to protect the qb, it's just annoying anecdotal drivel. It's not magic.
To that end, blaming coaches is an excuse that they are burning hard. What happens when everyone begins to realize that to win, you actually need good football players?
(05-23-2025, 10:19 PM)samhain Wrote: [ -> ]I question the value of the new coach as well. Last time I checked, the Bengals are a football team. They aren't a Brazilian jiu jitsu organization. IDGAF about MMA when it comes to protecting Burrow. I want a competent OL. If NFL OL play was as simple as taking mid rounders and borderline starters then teaching them MMA horseshit we'd have it made. I hate to break it to you guys, but it probably isn't.
You can bring whatever gimmicks you want. If you can't teach guys to protect the qb, it's just annoying anecdotal drivel. It's not magic.
To that end, blaming coaches is an excuse that they are burning hard. What happens when everyone begins to realize that to win, you actually need good football players?
Why does everyone act like we are the worst f**king team in the NFL?
(05-23-2025, 11:33 PM)sandwedge Wrote: [ -> ]Why does everyone act like we are the worst f**king team in the NFL?
Why do some folks forget that we went 30 years without winning a playoff game, which was the longest streak in all of professional sports at the time? Now we're already started a 2 year streak.
Somehow 2 years of success erased >30 years of failure by the FO?
(05-23-2025, 11:42 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]No doubt. It's just, they haven't signed 2 Guards that are obvious upgrades.
As I don't have to build a roster with a salary cap, a lot of fans just look at it like get the best player at every position. But, you just can't. That said, I think there are guys out there now like Scherff that could be signed that are upgrades.
The think is, Volson is a $3.8 million cap hit. You waive him and use that money and a little more and get Scherff.
But, I don't know. Maybe Scherff wouldn't come here.
Personally, I think Scherff won't sign anywhere he's not assured of a starting job.
There was only a .1 difference between he and Patrick's PFF grades last year, so I don't know they would do that for him here. He's not what he used to be. I mean, I'd be good with signing him, but I would have to wonder if he is another La'el Collins. More name value than performance.
Ultimately, I think he does what a lot of vet OL do...wait for someone to get injured in TC and head there.
(05-24-2025, 01:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]Why do some folks forget that we went 30 years without winning a playoff game, which was the longest streak in all of professional sports at the time? Now we're already started a 2 year streak.
Somehow 2 years of success erased >30 years of failure by the FO?
No, some of us has grown up and got over it.
2 year streak of what? Winning record?
(05-23-2025, 08:44 AM)jj22 Wrote: [ -> ]I can't believe all these players we thought would surely get cut Moss, Stone, Volson are returning, and it's been decided before training camp even started.
What's wrong with that? All three were starters last year. It's not like they were making huge bucks. And we renegotiated and lowered the cap hit on all three right?
Moss and Stone have produced on other teams in the NFL and are proven players. Volson was a rookie starter and we have won a lot of games with him in the starting lineup.
We only had 6 draft picks and we had to empty the bank signing Chase and Tee. And our best pass rusher is a malcontent until he gets paid. Can't have it all. I think its solid roster building keeping some continuity. It would be nice to have Moss and Volson as depth and see Stone build on how he ended up playing down the stretch last year.
(05-24-2025, 05:55 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: [ -> ]What's wrong with that? All three were starters last year. It's not like they were making huge bucks. And we renegotiated and lowered the cap hit on all three right?
Moss and Stone have produced on other teams in the NFL and are proven players. Volson was a rookie starter and we have won a lot of games with him in the starting lineup.
We only had 6 draft picks and we had to empty the bank signing Chase and Tee. And our best pass rusher is a malcontent until he gets paid. Can't have it all. I think its solid roster building keeping some continuity. It would be nice to have Moss and Volson as depth and see Stone build on how he ended up playing down the stretch last year.
I cannot speak for others, but for me it isn't so much about keeping them in a vaccuum, particularly Stone. But more about keeping them around after bringing in FA's and draft picks at the same spots (Perine and Brooks + Patrick, Fairchild, and Rivers) AND totally whitfing on othercsreas of need (S, DT, CB, TE).
Especially since we did the same thing at LB with Pratt, bringing in Burks and Giles-Harris in FA, AND drafting Knight and Carter.
I'd much rather have had that Pratt/Moss/Volson money reinvested intobthe team, either via:
1) Getting Trey sorted
2) FA's at other positions of need
3) Better FA's at the spots we addressed
4) 2 & 3 then allow us to make different picks/fill more holes.
If we'd have signed Jenkins + Hernandez/Risner/Scherf we could have let Volson walk, Patrick + Ford + Kirkland/Stueber are your backups, and then we could have taken Watts in the 3rd. For example.
(05-24-2025, 06:27 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: [ -> ]I cannot speak for others, but for me it isn't so much about keeping them in a vaccuum, particularly Stone. But more about keeping them around after bringing in FA's and draft picks at the same spots (Perine and Brooks + Patrick, Fairchild, and Rivers) AND totally whitfing on othercsreas of need (S, DT, CB, TE).
Especially since we did the same thing at LB with Pratt, bringing in Burks and Giles-Harris in FA, AND drafting Knight and Carter.
I'd much rather have had that Pratt/Moss/Volson money reinvested intobthe team, either via:
1) Getting Trey sorted
2) FA's at other positions of need
3) Better FA's at the spots we addressed
4) 2 & 3 then allow us to make different picks/fill more holes.
If we'd have signed Jenkins + Hernandez/Risner/Scherf we could have let Volson walk, Patrick + Ford + Kirkland/Stueber are your backups, and then we could have taken Watts in the 3rd. For example.
Kind of hard to be big time free agency players when the three stars you are trying to retain play the most expensive positions outside of QB. And they are still working on Trey, whose to say those renegotiations weren't to try and make room for a Trey pay raise?
We have a whole slew of young draft pick DBs on rookie contracts, they don't draft them unless they like them and intend to give them a chance. And we just drafted two DTs last year and spent on two FA DTs this year. And we just gave the biggest contract to a TE since Burrow has been here, to go along with the two draft picks last year and an UDFA from last year that made his way to the 53.
Only so much money and so many roster spots to go around. And sometimes you need to be patient with an investment to see it pay off.
Yea I woulda done stuff different if I got to make the calls. But I can't complain and say anything they have done is illogical. I think they have navigated the offseason well and this team has sky high potential.
(05-24-2025, 01:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]Why do some folks forget that we went 30 years without winning a playoff game, which was the longest streak in all of professional sports at the time? Now we're already started a 2 year streak.
Somehow 2 years of success erased >30 years of failure by the FO?
Well gee, how many of the players and coaches from the 30 years of not winning a playoff game are on THIS team. THIS team has 5 playoff wins. You have to keep up and quit living in the past.
(05-24-2025, 02:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I think Scherff won't sign anywhere he's not assured of a starting job.
There was only a .1 difference between he and Patrick's PFF grades last year, so I don't know they would do that for him here. He's not what he used to be. I mean, I'd be good with signing him, but I would have to wonder if he is another La'el Collins. More name value than performance.
Ultimately, I think he does what a lot of vet OL do...wait for someone to get injured in TC and head there.
Yeah. I wante Scherff like, 3 years ago.
(05-24-2025, 07:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: [ -> ]Well gee, how many of the players and coaches from the 30 years of not winning a playoff game are on THIS team. THIS team has 5 playoff wins. You have to keep up and quit living in the past.
THIS team still has a HC with a losing record and an Owner/GM with a losing record.
Hell, THIS team doesn't even have that many guys left who were actually the ones to win those playoff games in 2022.....
Only 4 of the starting 11 that year on offense are still starting (Burrow, Chase, Tee, Karras).
Only 4 of the starting 11 that year on defense are still starting (Hill, Hendrickson, Wilson, CTB).
That's only 8 of the 22 guys and that's assuming Hendrickson starts for us this year. Without it that's less than 1/3rd left.
We've missed the playoffs two straight years now. 2022 was 3 years ago. The period of success (2021-2022) has already been matched in length by the following period of missing the playoffs (2023-2024).
(05-25-2025, 04:04 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]THIS team still has a HC with a losing record and an Owner/GM with a losing record.
Hell, THIS team doesn't even have that many guys left who were actually the ones to win those playoff games in 2022.....
Only 4 of the starting 11 that year on offense are still starting (Burrow, Chase, Tee, Karras).
Only 4 of the starting 11 that year on defense are still starting (Hill, Hendrickson, Wilson, CTB).
That's only 8 of the 22 guys and that's assuming Hendrickson starts for us this year. Without it that's less than 1/3rd left.
We've missed the playoffs two straight years now. 2022 was 3 years ago. The period of success (2021-2022) has already been matched in length by the following period of missing the playoffs (2023-2024).
Well since we were playing with the backup QB for the back end of the schedule in 2023, and Burrow started the season still recovering from his wrist injury in 2024, it doesn't bother me. But since we're living in the past, yeah, 30 years ago when I was 35...... let's go back to that. I'd like to have my Camaro back, and a back that is not screwed up.
(05-24-2025, 06:54 PM)Stewy Wrote: [ -> ]Your supreme negative nancy attitude, is conveniently ignoring the fact that the entire staff got fired. They retained - no one.
Your posts are so sad lately. You need to step away from the board for a while for your own mental health.
The entire staff did not get fired. The OL coach was about it on O. Maybe the assistant OL coach as well?
Now, on D, most guys got canned. I think we kept DB coaches & safety.
But it is a classic CYA move from a head coach. Firing key assistants buys you a year. If we are mediocre again, ZT is history.