(11-04-2015, 02:55 PM)PDub80 Wrote:  Sorry for seeming rude.... if we were in normal conversation it would not have sounded that way in tone.

- I am not arguing that drugs in any way shape or form do not belong in society. I am arguing that weed is the lowest strength drug that should NOT be allowed and that I have a fundamental problem with allowing/sanctioning recreational drug use to become a societal norm. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it has to stay there. If we begin to move it, where do we stop?

 

To the bold, no harm. That's one of the pitfalls of message board conversations, you can't get the tone down.

To the second part, I can understand that. I disagree, but I get where you're coming from. I guess for me the issue is, if we're going to allow alcohol, I don't see that much difference with pot smokers in terms of legalizing and regulation. Some people use and abuse both, some people use one or both and have no problem doing it responsibly.

(11-04-2015, 02:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and this would be the only thing that would cause me pause to legalize it. I must admit I've never heard of such a device.

The opportunity to enter and exit the production market is often limited in the early statges of an endeavor.

What the legal test for determining if someone is driving while using a prescription drug? This is something that I have often wondered, you can get a DUI for driving under the influence of any substance that hinders your ability to operate a vehicle, but we only have tests for alcohol. We can do blood tests and see the drugs in your system, but what level of each drug constitutes being too much? One of the flaws with BAC is that the level has very different meanings to different people and their response to it. My .08 may not effect my driving, but your .03 might.

(11-04-2015, 02:53 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: That seems to be your perspective:  we shouldn't allow for legal use of pot because it makes some people losers.




My dad is a recovering alcoholic who use to get drunk and beat my mom and us.  So obviously in some cases there are victims.  Nonetheless alcohol is legal and I would prefer it stay that way.  It is silly to say me getting high after a day at the office impacts you in any meaningful way.  Just like it is silly to say that someone drinking a beer or getting hammered at a bar affects me if they called a cab to take them home.  



What exactly are you making your judgments based on then?  Other than your prejudice against people who choose to get high?  



I was a bartender at Kilroy's Sports Bar in college and tended bar for about 10 years following as a part-time job.  My anecdotal observations suggest the overwhelming majority of my customers used alcohol for the purposes of obtaining a buzz.  Newsflash.  Miller lite and Bud light doesn't taste all that good.  And I can take a couple puffs of a vaporizer and be less intoxicated than drinking an IPA.  Regardless it is irrelevant.  As long as people aren't hurting someone else, why is it any of your business whether they choose to get intoxicated or not.  

- I'm sorry about your dad. My dad was an alcoholic, too. He never was physical and he functioned incredibly well. Holding a great job and was a great dad. ZERO complaints from how he treated me. But he drank by himself or with his friends to great excesses. He would get in verbal, drunken arguments with my mother that were very mean. I was sad for my dad. He was uncomfortable and unhappy with himself because my grandfather was terribly hard on him... and the alcoholism was in his blood. It's in mine, too I am sure, which is why I have never had a drink. I would probably like it... too much. And I never wanted my children to see me the way I saw my dad when he was drunk. Nor did I want to be a hypocrite when I told them not to drink or use drugs.


- These aren't judgments, per se. More of a fundamental difference. I do not believe that ingesting something into the body for the (and this is key) purpose of changing your mood or feeling, other than medicine, is a good thing for society or people in general. I believe that it hinders.

A lot of my friends smoke. I do not view them, or any of you as losers. I have met and know of a lot of losers who do smoke, however, and their desire for weed has caused them to not function very well as an adult. I think that we, as a society, have lowered our standards on what is and what is not an acceptable way to carry ourselves and deal with our responsibilities or problems.  don't feel that drugs to pass time or distract actually helps anyone. It merely distracts and delays.

- Yes, typically people go in bars to get drunk or get a buzz. I place a great deal of value on anecdotal real life experiences.

Which brings me to this: YOU might be able to handle drug use. But that does not mean that everyone in society can. Or that the majority can. Or that you being able to handle it is the best thing to be handling to begin with. But that is between you and you.

(11-04-2015, 03:09 PM)Benton Wrote: To the bold, no harm. That's one of the pitfalls of message board conversations, you can't get the tone down.

To the second part, I can understand that. I disagree, but I get where you're coming from. I guess for me the issue is, if we're going to allow alcohol, I don't see that much difference with pot smokers in terms of legalizing and regulation. Some people use and abuse both, some people use one or both and have no problem doing it responsibly.

Oh, I totally get it on the alcohol and other stuff that people DO think is normal. I just look at it as... do we need to add in ANOTHER? But you're also talking to someone who thinks we as a society treat things with drugs or substances (prescribed or not) at an incredibly alarming rate.

And, no, I don't think people should be arrested or put in jail for smoking weed or possessing a personal (small) amount.

(11-04-2015, 03:11 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - I'm sorry about your dad. My dad was an alcoholic, too. He never was physical and he functioned incredibly well. Holding a great job and was a great dad. ZERO complaints from how he treated me. But he drank by himself or with his friends to great excesses. He would get in verbal, drunken arguments with my mother that were very mean. I was sad for my dad. He was uncomfortable and unhappy with himself because my grandfather was terribly hard on him... and the alcoholism was in his blood. It's in mine, too I am sure, which is why I have never had a drink. I would probably like it... too much. And I never wanted my children to see me the way I saw my dad when he was drunk. Nor did I want to be a hypocrite when I told them not to drink or use drugs.


- These aren't judgments, per se. More of a fundamental difference. I do not believe that ingesting something into the body for the (and this is key) purpose of changing your mood or feeling, other than medicine, is a good thing for society or people in general. I believe that it hinders.

A lot of my friends smoke. I do not view them, or any of you as losers. I have met and know of a lot of losers who do smoke, however, and their desire for weed has caused them to not function very well as an adult. I think that we, as a society, have lowered our standards on what is and what is not an acceptable way to carry ourselves and deal with our responsibilities or problems.  don't feel that drugs to pass time or distract actually helps anyone. It merely distracts and delays.

- Yes, typically people go in bars to get drunk or get a buzz. I place a great deal of value on anecdotal real life experiences.

Which brings me to this: YOU might be able to handle drug use. But that does not mean that everyone in society can. Or that the majority can. Or that you being able to handle it is the best thing to be handling to begin with. But that is between you and you.

The whole point is that if anyone is for alcohol being legal and not marijuana they are a hypocrite.

(11-04-2015, 03:11 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - These aren't judgments, per se. More of a fundamental difference. I do not believe that ingesting something into the body for the (and this is key) purpose of changing your mood or feeling, other than medicine, is a good thing for society or people in general. I believe that it hinders.

Do you ingest caffeine? If so, what are you trying to achieve by doing so?

(11-04-2015, 03:00 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: This seems arbitrary when you consider that you can actually drink yourself to death in a sitting.  I've actually had friends that have died from drinking too much alcohol.  



Awesome.  



Consequently, we should all be forced by law to do as you do.  

Going by your use of it, the word arbitrary can be applied to literally every single thing on this Earth. So, yes... NEWS FLASH for those not firmly planted in reality: Arbitrarily people and society as a whole have to make decisions on what is or isn't acceptable, legal, etc. in this world.

(11-04-2015, 03:14 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The whole point is that if anyone is for alcohol being legal and not marijuana they are a hypocrite.

I'm guessing you're still in school?

I think it's sad when people look at the only reason a beer or any alcoholic drink exists is to get people drunk.

(11-04-2015, 03:11 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - I'm sorry about your dad. My dad was an alcoholic, too. He never was physical and he functioned incredibly well. Holding a great job and was a great dad. ZERO complaints from how he treated me. But he drank by himself or with his friends to great excesses. He would get in verbal, drunken arguments with my mother that were very mean. I was sad for my dad. He was uncomfortable and unhappy with himself because my grandfather was terribly hard on him... and the alcoholism was in his blood. It's in mine, too I am sure, which is why I have never had a drink. I would probably like it... too much. And I never wanted my children to see me the way I saw my dad when he was drunk. Nor did I want to be a hypocrite when I told them not to drink or use drugs.


- These aren't judgments, per se. More of a fundamental difference. I do not believe that ingesting something into the body for the (and this is key) purpose of changing your mood or feeling, other than medicine, is a good thing for society or people in general. I believe that it hinders.

A lot of my friends smoke. I do not view them, or any of you as losers. I have met and know of a lot of losers who do smoke, however, and their desire for weed has caused them to not function very well as an adult. I think that we, as a society, have lowered our standards on what is and what is not an acceptable way to carry ourselves and deal with our responsibilities or problems.  don't feel that drugs to pass time or distract actually helps anyone. It merely distracts and delays.

- Yes, typically people go in bars to get drunk or get a buzz. I place a great deal of value on anecdotal real life experiences.

Which brings me to this: YOU might be able to handle drug use. But that does not mean that everyone in society can. Or that the majority can. Or that you being able to handle it is the best thing to be handling to begin with. But that is between you and you.

People have been enjoying drugs since the beginning of time.  If you are religious (I'm not) even Jesus turned water into wine.  Many religions use drugs in their rituals.  Imagine how this society would get through a day of work without Caffeine.  I think it is naive to expect people not to use drugs.  The war on drugs has been a huge failure regardless of how you look at it.  I'm not going to stop getting high because it is illegal.  I do run the risk of having it as a mark on my record if I'm caught using it however. How that benefits me in any practical way is beyond me.

Regardless of who can handle their drugs, they shouldn't be made criminals for using them.  It's ridiculous to outlaw a plant that is less harmful than a drug such as alcohol, which this country has roundly considered to be OK.  Alcohol can kill you.  Pot will not.  Alcohol can kill you even when you are trying to stop using it.  Pot will not.  

(11-04-2015, 03:19 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm guessing you're still in school?

I think it's sad when people look at the only reason a beer or any alcoholic drink exists is to get people drunk.

I think it's dishonest to pretend that isn't the primary reason people drink alcohol.  

(11-04-2015, 03:19 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm guessing you're still in school?

I think it's sad when people look at the only reason a beer or any alcoholic drink exists is to get people drunk.

If people didn't at least appreciate the effects of alcohol they would buy non alcoholic beers, but considering that is a tiny part of the market one can conclude even if a person doesn't intend to get smashed they still appreciate the mild sedative effect of alcohol.

(11-04-2015, 03:19 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm guessing you're still in school?

I think it's sad when people look at the only reason a beer or any alcoholic drink exists is to get people drunk.

I think it's sad when people look at the only reason any marijuana use exists is to get people high.


People can use marijuana for the same reasons that people use alcohol when they don't want to get drunk. You just dont know what you're talking about.

(11-04-2015, 03:15 PM)Au165 Wrote: Do you ingest caffeine? If so, what are you trying to achieve by doing so?

I have cut caffeine out of my diet. But I LOVE pop. Any kind... even caffeine free.

But I have NEVER reached for a soda and thought... Oh, I need this caffeine. The idea of even thinking in those terms is weird to me.

So, to directly answer your question, I drank a pop or coffee drink because I was thirsty or it sounded good.

For the 100th time.... The effects of the amount of caffeine found in food or drink vs. the effects of weed do not = each other. The caffeine argument is laughable.

For the 100th time: Not all drugs should be illegal but there has to be a line drawn. The line is drawn at weed for most people.

For the 100th time: Most people don't drink pop or coffee to get F'd up or wasted or find some sort of caffeine high for a few hours. If you think that's normal line of thinking for a normal human being.... you are kidding yourself.

(11-04-2015, 03:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I have cut caffeine out of my diet. But I LOVE pop. Any kind... even caffeine free.

But I have NEVER reached for a soda and thought... Oh, I need this caffeine. The idea of even thinking in those terms is weird to me.

So, to directly answer your question, I drank a pop or coffee drink because I was thirsty or it sounded good.

For the 100th time.... The effects of the amount of caffeine found in food or drink vs. the effects of weed do not = each other. The caffeine argument is laughable.

For the 100th time: Not all drugs should be illegal but there has to be a line drawn. The line is drawn at weed for most people.

For the 100th time: Most people don't drink pop or coffee to get F'd up or wasted or find some sort of caffeine high for a few hours. If you think that's normal line of thinking for a normal human being.... you are kidding yourself.

Why do you keep acting like you know how potent weed is? You literally have no clue.

So you think that people don't drink caffeine to wake up or be more alert? LOL stop fooling yourself. You don't know what you're talking about.

(11-04-2015, 03:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: For the 100th time.... The effects of the amount of caffeine found in food or drink vs. the effects of weed do not = each other. The caffeine argument is laughable.

We can come back to why your brain associate caffeine laden products with being good, even though you don't directly think of the obvious benefits when choosing it. It's obvious you don't understand the chemical addiction within your brain that makes you want caffeine and through association products that usually contain them. The reason caffeine was added to soft drinks long ago was because of this association. The producers recognized the addictive properties of caffeine and how it would keep people coming back to their products.

Let's talk about this for a second. Please explain to me these effects of weed (by the way you set a dosage for caffeine but not weed) that makes weed so bad that it is laughable to compare.

(11-04-2015, 03:21 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: People have been enjoying drugs since the beginning of time.  If you are religious (I'm not) even Jesus turned water into wine.  Many religions use drugs in their rituals.  Imagine how this society would get through a day of work without Caffeine.  I think it is naive to expect people not to use drugs.  The war on drugs has been a huge failure regardless of how you look at it.  I'm not going to stop getting high because it is illegal.  I do run the risk of having it as a mark on my record if I'm caught using it however. How that benefits me in any practical way is beyond me.

Regardless of who can handle their drugs, they shouldn't be made criminals for using them.  It's ridiculous to outlaw a plant that is less harmful than a drug such as alcohol, which this country has roundly considered to be OK.  Alcohol can kill you.  Pot will not.  Alcohol can kill you even when you are trying to stop using it.  Pot will not.  

- Not religious. Did he turn water to wine and then get hammered?

- I am sure we would all get through just fine.

- Good for you? You have found a coping mechanism for your life's pains. Society doesn't agree with your chosen method of self medicating. Who cares, other than you?

- I think it's naive to expect people not to do lots of things. that doesn't mean society doesn't have standards.

- LOL.. It doesn't benefit you in any way. Why should it? You're using illegal drugs that society has deemed harmful for itself.

- LOTS OF THINGS CAN KILL YOU WHEN ABUSED.

(11-04-2015, 03:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I have cut caffeine out of my diet. But I LOVE pop. Any kind... even caffeine free.

But I have NEVER reached for a soda and thought... Oh, I need this caffeine. The idea of even thinking in those terms is weird to me.

So, to directly answer your question, I drank a pop or coffee drink because I was thirsty or it sounded good.

For the 100th time.... The effects of the amount of caffeine found in food or drink vs. the effects of weed do not = each other. The caffeine argument is laughable.

For the 100th time: Not all drugs should be illegal but there has to be a line drawn. The line is drawn at weed for most people.

For the 100th time: Most people don't drink pop or coffee to get F'd up or wasted or find some sort of caffeine high for a few hours. If you think that's normal line of thinking for a normal human being.... you are kidding yourself.

You haven't said anything here 100 times.  This is how I know you exaggerate most things in your life and why entertaining your opinions on a subject, without first figuring you are exaggerating, would be crazy of me or any one.

(11-04-2015, 03:28 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Why do you keep acting like you know how potent weed is? You literally have no clue.

So you think that people don't drink caffeine to wake up or be more alert? LOL stop fooling yourself. You don't know what you're talking about.

Nobody goes to the store for a 12 pack of Pepsi thinking: Gotta have my wake up juice!

People buy weed to get high.

If you don't see the difference, you're kidding yourself.

(11-04-2015, 03:33 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Nobody goes to the store for a 12 pack of Pepsi thinking: Gotta have my wake up juice!

People buy weed to get high.

If you don't see the difference, you're kidding yourself.

No one goes to Starbucks and says "I got to have this to function today"?

(11-04-2015, 03:33 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: You haven't said anything here 100 times.  This is how I know you exaggerate most things in your life and why entertaining your opinions on a subject, without first figuring you are exaggerating, would be crazy of me or any one.

You're a Steelers fan.... You're already crazy.