(04-14-2021, 11:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: 2 things:

Interesting topic, let's try to keep it on vaccine and how it relates to NFL (Bengals)

There's a thread in klotsch for folks that want to talk vaccine in general. Let's generate an informative, non-combative discussion there:
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Covid-19-Discussion-Non-Political-Only?page=8

I figured your time in the hole would have you wanting to have a go at this discussion. I’m stuck with a Pittsburgh and ravens fan in there now by myself :/

(04-14-2021, 10:23 AM)rupe Wrote: "Dealing with a similar situation just this past week, and kind of went to my old stand by: You are free to make your own choices for yourself, just don't insist that others have to bear the burdens of your choices."


Wow that seems hypocritical.  If you want the vaccine take it for yourself. If people fear an illness for a 99.997% survival rate they can get a experimental vaccine and should.  Healthy people should not be forced to take an emergency experimental vaccine.  Kids should not be forced to.  YOU are free to make your own choices for yourself, just don't insist that others have to bear the burdens of your choices...
 

As I said, forced is what you think is happening. A business may feel like having employees vaccinated makes their workplace safer. They are not tackling anyone and and sticking a needle in. If you aren't worried about it, then find somewhere else to work. You seem to believe that since you CHOOSE not to have the vaccine, someone should be FORCED to included you in the things that are theirs. That is the hypocrisy. 

For example, guy said he isn't worried about being shot as a LEO. Millions of hours worked without anyone being shot. The vests are super hot in the summer and feel confining. Guess what? Didn't cuff him and put one on. You want to work here, you wear it. There's your choice. 

You try to argue about the vaccine and the virus when those are just the items. The stats mean nothing. People want to make that as some kind of position, political and otherwise. Those are just two items that reflect other things that happen every day, in a thousands jobs, benefits and policies. You don't have to get the vaccine, but they also don't have to deal with you because of it. 

You can have your rights in your home and place of business. If someone has an organization they have their rights, too. 

(04-14-2021, 08:12 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: So I assume then there would be no mask mandate either within the stadium?  If everyone is vaccinated what's the point.

That's kind of my position.  When everyone has had an opportunity to get the vaccine and its had time to protect them, their estimating somewhere around the first of July, I'm done with the mask.  I will no longer protect those that chose not to protect themselves. Plus, I've been vaccinated so I shouldn't be spreading Covid anyway.

So there's no guarantee you won't get COVID or even exhibit symptoms even after being vaccinated.
Getting the vaccine just helps reduce the likelihood you'll get worse than mild symptoms, and also help reduce the chance you'll get it at all.
Think of it like getting the flu vaccine. You can still get the flu even after getting the vaccine, it's just supposed to help reduce the likelihood you get it, and if you do get it, it's supposed to help keep your symptoms on the mild level.

As such, I would imagine there will still be a mask mandate in the stadium just as extra precaution.

I read through this whole thread and one thing that was not mentioned is the fact that this vaccine is not good forever. Best guesstimates are that it will last 6-8 months. So basically, every team in the NFL will have to do this pretty much every year from now on. If a team requires a vaccination certificate to go watch a game, you will need to get it every year. Unfortunately, this virus is here to stay forever, and either we learn to live with it, like the flu, or we will always be in the vicious game of vaccinations vs. anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers vs. mask haters, etc. The only way to see if we can live with it is they de-monetize it. When it quits being a cash cow for everyone, then we will see how it goes. Just my .02

(04-14-2021, 03:06 PM)No-huddle Joe Wrote: I read through this whole thread and one thing that was not mentioned is the fact that this vaccine is not good forever. Best guesstimates are that it will last 6-8 months. So basically, every team in the NFL will have to do this pretty much every year from now on. If a team requires a vaccination certificate to go watch a game, you will need to get it every year. Unfortunately, this virus is here to stay forever, and either we learn to live with it, like the flu, or we will always be in the vicious game of vaccinations vs. anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers vs. mask haters, etc. The only way to see if we can live with it is they de-monetize it. When it quits being a cash cow for everyone, then we will see how it goes. Just my .02

That’s because the vaccine has been available for less than a year. They can’t tell you that you will have antibodies in five years if one year ago no one had received the vaccine to even test for antibodies. So how long you will have antibodies circulating at therapeutic level is to be determined.

(04-14-2021, 03:06 PM)No-huddle Joe Wrote: I read through this whole thread and one thing that was not mentioned is the fact that this vaccine is not good forever.  Best guesstimates are that it will last 6-8 months.  So basically, every team in the NFL will have to do this pretty much every year from now on.  If a team requires a vaccination certificate to go watch a game, you will need to get it every year.  Unfortunately, this virus is here to stay forever, and either we learn to live with it, like the flu, or we will always be in the vicious game of vaccinations vs. anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers vs. mask haters, etc.  The only way to see if we can live with it is they de-monetize it.  When it quits being a cash cow for everyone, then we will see how it goes.  Just my .02

A big difference with the flu vs COVID is there's a flu "season," which is late fall through early spring, but COVID is year-round.
And COVID is currently >10x more deadly than the seasonal flu, but I would expect that percentage to go down as we get into yearly vaccines (or even every 6 months).
People also typically develop symptoms for COVID later into the cycle compared to the seasonal flu, so they are more likely unknowingly to spread it.

(04-14-2021, 11:04 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I figured your time in the hole would have you wanting to have a go at this discussion. I’m stuck with a Pittsburgh and ravens fan in there now by myself :/

No comment

(04-14-2021, 02:14 PM)Destro Wrote: As I said, forced is what you think is happening. A business may feel like having employees vaccinated makes their workplace safer. They are not tackling anyone and and sticking a needle in. If you aren't worried about it, then find somewhere else to work. You seem to believe that since you CHOOSE not to have the vaccine, someone should be FORCED to included you in the things that are theirs. That is the hypocrisy. 

For example, guy said he isn't worried about being shot as a LEO. Millions of hours worked without anyone being shot. The vests are super hot in the summer and feel confining. Guess what? Didn't cuff him and put one on. You want to work here, you wear it. There's your choice. 

You try to argue about the vaccine and the virus when those are just the items. The stats mean nothing. People want to make that as some kind of position, political and otherwise. Those are just two items that reflect other things that happen every day, in a thousands jobs, benefits and policies. You don't have to get the vaccine, but they also don't have to deal with you because of it. 

You can have your rights in your home and place of business. If someone has an organization they have their rights, too. 

Forced is a subjective word.  I know people who felt forced because they are nurses and in order to keep their jobs they were "forced" to take it or not be able support their families.  I also know a nurse who's place of employment does not require it but strongly recommends it.  She has not gotten it but feels the pressure every day. Some people don't have the ability to make that forced choice.  I do, but I'm fortunate to work in an industry that sees through this bullshit and has not enacted draconian measures.  It's going to be interesting to see the future lawsuits pile up against entities that "forced" their employees or students to take an experimental, for emergency use shot.  If months or years from now we see more deaths or complications due to the shot, someone will pay.  Since the manufacturers are exempt from lawsuits that will fall on those who mandated a shot that was for emergency use.  99.997%.  It's funny how HCQ and zinc were never allowed as a choice (until recently you can get it now if you know how), but experimental vaccines are.    I will say I received so much joy seeing those people at the Rangers game without their masks on.  One day soon this veil of bullshit will be lifted https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1382364998069059591?s=20.  To keep it on the NFL and the Bengals... What kind of jeopardy are they putting themselves in by forcing certain employees to take the vaccine, but not forcing the players/owners/coaches to take it?  How would the NFL and other employers enforce this anyway?  Surely that little piece of paper won't do it considering one can made for as little as 3 cents.  

Want to play in their league, you play by their rules. You can likely do dozens of things and ingest dozens of things and your employer wouldn't care. Have someone SAY that I assaulted them while popping Adderall, the people at Piggy Wiggly don't care. The NFL will have you playing Madden. It's what you sign up for.

Wife can walk into a shop in Ocean City wearing a bikini and no one complains. Do the same in Macy's and mall security will boot you.

Can give 100's of examples. It is just how life always is. If I ran a demolition company, I would not be too involved if my employees were vaccinated. If I ran an assisted living or day care center, where there are humans who can do little to defend themselves, I'd be a lot more concerned with the type of precautions in place from my employees. Do what I say or get out. Nothing more capitalistic and American than that.

You have a choice. If it means that much to someone, move on. Simple as that. No one owes you anything. Say whatever you want about the vaccine or virus...it doesn't matter. You are not promised a job/position if you won't abide by what they want. If you feel pressure, go elsewhere. Just like you can choose to go somewhere that requires masks or not. It's your choice. You have choice but get bent out of shape when someone exercises theirs? Crying about lawsuits for not allowing someone to choose who work in their companies safely?

You want it to be one way, but it's the other.

(04-14-2021, 03:58 PM)Destro Wrote: Want to play in their league, you play by their rules. You can likely do dozens of things and ingest dozens of things and your employer wouldn't care. Have someone SAY that I assaulted them while popping Adderall, the people at Piggy Wiggly don't care. The NFL will have you playing Madden. It's what you sign up for.

Wife can walk into a shop in Ocean City wearing a bikini and no one complains. Do the same in Macy's and mall security will boot you.

Can give 100's of examples. It is just how life always is. If I ran a demolition company, I would not be too involved if my employees were vaccinated. If I ran an assisted living or day care center, where there are humans who can do little to defend themselves, I'd be a lot more concerned with the type of precautions in place from my employees. Do what I say or get out. Nothing more capitalistic and American than that.

I would think forcing one group of your employees and not the other sets the NFL up for some major lawsuits.  You can't discriminate. 

(04-14-2021, 04:23 PM)rupe Wrote: I would think forcing one group of your employees and not the other sets the NFL up for some major lawsuits.  You can't discriminate. 

Based on position, you damn sure can. Some companies field staff versus managerial staff. Run a 4.4 40 yard dash and get treated different than the guy who mixes gatorade. 

Who's fake account is this, anyway?

(04-14-2021, 03:56 PM)rupe Wrote: Forced is a subjective word.  I know people who felt forced because they are nurses and in order to keep their jobs they were "forced" to take it or not be able support their families.  I also know a nurse who's place of employment does not require it but strongly recommends it.  She has not gotten it but feels the pressure every day. Some people don't have the ability to make that forced choice.  I do, but I'm fortunate to work in an industry that sees through this bullshit and has not enacted draconian measures.  It's going to be interesting to see the future lawsuits pile up against entities that "forced" their employees or students to take an experimental, for emergency use shot.  If months or years from now we see more deaths or complications due to the shot, someone will pay.  Since the manufacturers are exempt from lawsuits that will fall on those who mandated a shot that was for emergency use.  99.997%.  It's funny how HCQ and zinc were never allowed as a choice (until recently you can get it now if you know how), but experimental vaccines are.    I will say I received so much joy seeing those people at the Rangers game without their masks on.  One day soon this veil of bullshit will be lifted https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1382364998069059591?s=20.  To keep it on the NFL and the Bengals... What kind of jeopardy are they putting themselves in by forcing certain employees to take the vaccine, but not forcing the players/owners/coaches to take it?  How would the NFL and other employers enforce this anyway?  Surely that little piece of paper won't do it considering one can made for as little as 3 cents.  

Really?

Take it to P&R or get banned.

Go away.

(04-14-2021, 04:37 PM)Destro Wrote: Based on position, you damn sure can. Some companies field staff versus managerial staff. Run a 4.4 40 yard dash and get treated different than the guy who mixes gatorade. 

Who's fake account is this, anyway?

Treating employees different is one thing, forcing experimental medication is another.  Lawyers are going to have a field day with this one.  We will see.  UC dodged a bullet with almost forcing the dance team before the Johnson and Johnson. If one of them died of a clot, I can imagine the out roar.  Fake account?  Nah, was a active poster on the old Jungle boards before they closed down.  Now I'm just a lurker because Mike Brown has slowly been killing my passion for the Bengals.  No vaccine yet for that.  

(04-14-2021, 04:47 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Really?

Take it to P&R or get banned.

Go away.

It's on topic.  Talking about the liability that the NFL and the Bengals could be setting themselves up for.  Don't like it, scroll on.  Ban me?  I really could care less, but that shows more about you than me.  

(04-14-2021, 04:59 PM)rupe Wrote: It's on topic.  Talking about the liability that the NFL and the Bengals could be setting themselves up for.  Don't like it, scroll on.  Ban me?  I really could care less, but that shows more about you than me.  

Injecting political viewpoints in JN is prohibited.

And yes, I can see that you care a lot, as you could care less.

Go away.

It's actually "couldn't care less."

And to keep it about the Bengals:
You think Mike Brown wants Joe Burrow, Joe Mixon, Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins out because the Senior Smelling Salts technician brought Covid into the training facility? They are the shining stars. They are why the team makes money. They get the great parking spots. They get different treatment. Why is that so hard to grasp. Be elite or hit the street. That's the world, not just the Bengals.

Again, forced would them having Hubbard tackle them in the hallway and jabbing a needle a needle in their arm. They have the choice to get a vaccine or not work there. That's not forced, that's a choice. If you view one as being very bad, it sounds like an easy choice.

If you said, "Destro, you can work with the Bengals as long as you eat a half pound of bacon every game day," I would do it. Chance of gout, heart disease, high cholesterol, etc. it's not good for me but I would do it. If they said "You can work for the Bengals, but we insist on a tattoo of Mike Brown on your chest," I wouldn't do it. Millions of tattoos out there. Not many deaths, but I'd still say "no, thanks." That is a choice.

Forcing an employer to take risks to health and safety because you don't believe it is dangerous enough doesn't pass.

(04-14-2021, 03:56 PM)rupe Wrote: Forced is a subjective word.  I know people who felt forced because they are nurses and in order to keep their jobs they were "forced" to take it or not be able support their families.  I also know a nurse who's place of employment does not require it but strongly recommends it.  She has not gotten it but feels the pressure every day. Some people don't have the ability to make that forced choice.  I do, but I'm fortunate to work in an industry that sees through this bullshit and has not enacted draconian measures.  It's going to be interesting to see the future lawsuits pile up against entities that "forced" their employees or students to take an experimental, for emergency use shot.  If months or years from now we see more deaths or complications due to the shot, someone will pay.  Since the manufacturers are exempt from lawsuits that will fall on those who mandated a shot that was for emergency use.  99.997%.  It's funny how HCQ and zinc were never allowed as a choice (until recently you can get it now if you know how), but experimental vaccines are.    I will say I received so much joy seeing those people at the Rangers game without their masks on.  One day soon this veil of bullshit will be lifted https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1382364998069059591?s=20.  To keep it on the NFL and the Bengals... What kind of jeopardy are they putting themselves in by forcing certain employees to take the vaccine, but not forcing the players/owners/coaches to take it?  How would the NFL and other employers enforce this anyway?  Surely that little piece of paper won't do it considering one can made for as little as 3 cents.  

Holy stromboli Batman. I'm not on Twitter but I just clicked that link and watched the video. I'm not a political type person and I dont watch TV news at all (still a newspaper guy lol). But if that video is real it explains why my one sister is freaking out about covid way more than anyone else in the family. She is very political and loves CNN above all. My 98 year old grandpa recovered from covid, my 75 year old mom, my 74 year old diabetic aunt and her 77 year old diabetic husband both recovered from covid. Both my aunt and uncle on my dads side recovered from it just fine as well. But she will not let anyone in the family visit her beautiful new house unless we are vaccinated even though she is vaccinated. 

I'm out of this topic lol. End thread for me. 

(04-14-2021, 04:55 PM)rupe Wrote: Treating employees different is one thing, forcing experimental medication is another.  Lawyers are going to have a field day with this one.  We will see.  UC dodged a bullet with almost forcing the dance team before the Johnson and Johnson. If one of them died of a clot, I can imagine the out roar.  Fake account?  Nah, was a active poster on the old Jungle boards before they closed down.  Now I'm just a lurker because Mike Brown has slowly been killing my passion for the Bengals.  No vaccine yet for that.  

You keep calling them experimental vaccines. mRNA technology has been in development for over 30 years, and adenovirus vaccines have been in use for over 50. Both are two types of covid vaccine. Just how old do these vaccines have to be in order for them to be considered non experimental by you? 

(04-14-2021, 07:22 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Holy stromboli Batman. I'm not on Twitter but I just clicked that link and watched the video. I'm not a political type person and I dont watch TV news at all (still a newspaper guy lol). But if that video is real it explains why my one sister is freaking out about covid way more than anyone else in the family. She is very political and loves CNN above all. My 98 year old grandpa recovered from covid, my 75 year old mom, my 74 year old diabetic aunt and her 77 year old diabetic husband both recovered from covid. Both my aunt and uncle on my dads side recovered from it just fine as well. But she will not let anyone in the family visit her beautiful new house unless we are vaccinated even though she is vaccinated. 

I'm out of this topic lol. End thread for me. 

I've known a handful of people have also gotten it and recovered from it, but most of them said it was a terrible 2+ weeks recovering. Most of them were 40 or younger, some in pretty good shape with no known underlying conditions. My wife's parents had a friend from church that passed away from it, and my wife's former coworker's mother passed away from it too.

Happy that your older relatives recovered, but there are plenty of people who haven't been so lucky.