(04-17-2021, 02:14 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Not sure why the oline guys are overlooking Trey Smith out of Tennessee? I haven't really noticed anyone mentioning him. He's a beast. Can play inside or OT in a pinch.

Think a lot of it is because of the blood clots that evidently he is over with anyways. 

Yes Trey Smith is another I would really like.

(04-20-2021, 02:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Think a lot of it is because of the blood clots that evidently he is over with anyways. 

Yes Trey Smith is another I would really like.

Obviously, the blood clot thing is a serious concern. Modern medicine has come a long way. Ts, hope the kid has a nice long career playing football if that's what he chooses to do.

His size and movement are undeniable for a big man. He could really be road grater at G with the right coaching.

Latest word I've heard is that Smith is getting a thumbs up from most teams as far as medicals go. Dickerson is the one that teams are seeing a serious concern with.

Collinsworth suggested the Bengals could possibly get all 3, Sewell, Chase and the TE from Florida if they trade down and get a kings ransom and every other team loses it's cotton pickin minds..  Hey, I'm not a big believer in impossibilities, but strange things do happen from time to time..Such a scenario wouldn't exactly suck for us..

(04-20-2021, 02:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Think a lot of it is because of the blood clots that evidently he is over with anyways. 

Yes Trey Smith is another I would really like.

It feels like this team is snake-bit when it comes to taking chances on injured players, but Dickerson on Day 3 would be super tempting.  

(04-19-2021, 06:20 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Is this a joke? Chase TORCHED every DB the SEC had. 2 or 3 of them first round picks. 1 a top 10 pick, if I recall, and they both did well in the League as rookies. Chase absolutely lit a gasoline fire on them.

No, it's not a joke.  Chase won't be a guy that teams are going to "game plan around."  I just don't buy that.  

Yes, he had 1 outstanding year where it was impossible to double team the guy because of Jefferson, Marshall, Moss, Edwards-Helaire.

(04-19-2021, 06:20 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Is this a joke? Chase TORCHED every DB the SEC had. 2 or 3 of them first round picks. 1 a top 10 pick, if I recall, and they both did well in the League as rookies. Chase absolutely lit a gasoline fire on them.

I think it was 6 NFL corners and top college defenses ending up with torching AJ Terrell in the championship game 3 straight times when they tried to play him man.  This can't be understated enough.  Chase basically dictates what defenses will do which is important.  Good luck playing press man on him.  This really plays into Zach's offensive schemes and Burrow's strengths attacking zones.  Chase did not need to play last year because he already showed all he needed too.

(04-21-2021, 04:08 PM)yang Wrote: I think it was 6 NFL corners and top college defenses ending up with torching AJ Terrell in the championship game 3 straight times when they tried to play him man.  This can't be understated enough.  Chase basically dictates what defenses will do which is important.  Good luck playing press man on him.  This really plays into Zach's offensive schemes and Burrow's strengths attacking zones.  Chase did not need to play last year because he already showed all he needed too.

I see your point, but when you have 2 other 1st round NFL WRs and a 1st round RB out of the backfield, it's not really far to say that Chase was dictating what was going on.  Teams just picked their poison.  Sometimes teams reduced his effectiveness (Georgia 3/41, OU 2/61, Mississippi State 5/48 etc.) while Jefferson would roll up big numbers.

I also wonder what he would have looked like playing with a QB other than Burrow, because he didn't do much his freshman year.

I have no doubt that he will be a top 10 WR in a couple years, but I still struggle to figure out if he's a better pick than Sewell.

(04-21-2021, 04:25 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I see your point, but when you have 2 other 1st round NFL WRs and a 1st round RB out of the backfield, it's not really far to say that Chase was dictating what was going on.  Teams just picked their poison.  Sometimes teams reduced his effectiveness (Georgia 3/41, OU 2/61, Mississippi State 5/48 etc.) while Jefferson would roll up big numbers.

I also wonder what he would have looked like playing with a QB other than Burrow, because he didn't do much his freshman year.

I have no doubt that he will be a top 10 WR in a couple years, but I still struggle to figure out if he's a better pick than Sewell.

Jefferson going in the first was a bit of a surprise. It was actually Tee Higgins projected around there and then, draft day, that kind of flipped. CEH to the Cheifs was also a shocker. He was a projected mid 2nd rounder, as well. Neither of those guys were considered anywhere near the prospect Chase was after that 2019 season. Nowhere close.

I think that if we analyzed Kyle Pitts numbers we would see similar things, right? The biggest difference is that Chase was battling the #1 CB from most of these teams. He torched the 4 SEC CBs taken 9, 16, 30, & 51(?) in last year's draft for 30 catches, 600+ yards, and 5 TDs in 4 games. Some of them HUGE games. He was in the spotlight and outshined them all. The Bengals NEED that kind of person.

In Pitts, we would see a very bland 2019. He had 1 big game against LSU for 108 yards and then a bunch of 4 catch performances.

- The offense LSU ran Chase's freshman year was archaic and ultra old school - even with Burrow there. Burrow played at LSU in 2018. This was discussed a ton on different podcasts last year when analyzing Joe Brady's change to a more wide open concept and debating if Joe Burrow was a "1 year wonder". I don't blame anyone for not going to the moon with their output in 2018. It was an old system ran and designed by an old man. The consensus was: Joe Burrow and the LSU guys were allowed to play to the best of their abilities and the handcuffs came off in 2019. THAT is why they all exploded.

Teams can focus and take guys away. That happens in the NFL as well. The Bengals have weapons to make teams pay when they do that. Higgins, Boyd, Mixon... all strong. BTW, they need more weapons, IMO. They will take another WR later in the draft. I have no doubts. I wouldn't hate a RB higher, either.

Fun fact about Jamaar Chase: Even though he didn't play football, I believe he stayed at LSU and got his degree. I thought that was interesting.

Bottom line for me: The Bengals NEED playmakers AND O-Line help. The MUST get better there. Pitts, Chase, Sewell... or whoever... this draft, for me, is about rounds 2-4. That is where the money is made in this draft. Starters are there to be had. Any of the above 3 in round 1 I am A ok with. Any of them. hell, I am fine with a trade back and taking Darrisaw. A lot of paths for success lie ahead for the Bengals.

(04-21-2021, 04:53 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Jefferson going in the first was a bit of a surprise. It was actually Tee Higgins projected around there and then, draft day, that kind of flipped. CEH to the Cheifs was also a shocker. He was a projected mid 2nd rounder, as well. Neither of those guys were considered anywhere near the prospect Chase was after that 2019 season. Nowhere close.

I think that if we analyzed Kyle Pitts numbers we would see similar things, right? The biggest difference is that Chase was battling the #1 CB from most of these teams. He torched the 4 SEC CBs taken 9, 16, 30, & 51(?) in last year's draft for 30 catches, 600+ yards, and 5 TDs in 4 games. Some of them HUGE games. He was in the spotlight and outshined them all. The Bengals NEED that kind of person.

In Pitts, we would see a very bland 2019. He had 1 big game against LSU for 108 yards and then a bunch of 4 catch performances.

- The offense LSU ran Chase's freshman year was archaic and ultra old school - even with Burrow there. Burrow played at LSU in 2018. This was discussed a ton on different podcasts last year when analyzing Joe Brady's change to a more wide open concept and debating if Joe Burrow was a "1 year wonder". I don't blame anyone for not going to the moon with their output in 2018. It was an old system ran and designed by an old man. The consensus was: Joe Burrow and the LSU guys were allowed to play to the best of their abilities and the handcuffs came off in 2019. THAT is why they all exploded.

Teams can focus and take guys away. That happens in the NFL as well. The Bengals have weapons to make teams pay when they do that. Higgins, Boyd, Mixon... all strong. BTW, they need more weapons, IMO. They will take another WR later in the draft. I have no doubts. I wouldn't hate a RB higher, either.

Fun fact about Jamaar Chase: Even though he didn't play football, I believe he stayed at LSU and got his degree. I thought that was interesting.

Bottom line for me: The Bengals NEED playmakers AND O-Line help. The MUST get better there. Pitts, Chase, Sewell... or whoever... this draft, for me, is about rounds 2-4. That is where the money is made in this draft. Starters are there to be had. Any of the above 3 in round 1 I am A ok with. Any of them. hell, I am fine with a trade back and taking Darrisaw. A lot of paths for success lie ahead for the Bengals.

Agree with everything you say, except this.  There's always 2-3 truly elite prospects in the draft.  If you can get one of them, you take one.  

Lawerence, Pitts, Sewell, Chase - and then theres a major drop-off to tier 2.  If we go Chase, then the real need is at OG, and there should be a great OG prospect in the 2nd.

If we go Sewell, I wouldn't mind trading back into the late first round if there theres a WR that really fits the bill (I personally think there will be a very good WR available in round 2)

(04-21-2021, 05:03 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Agree with everything you say, except this.  There's always 2-3 truly elite prospects in the draft.  If you can get one of them, you take one.  

Lawerence, Pitts, Sewell, Chase - and then theres a major drop-off to tier 2.  If we go Chase, then the real need is at OG, and there should be a great OG prospect in the 2nd.

If we go Sewell, I wouldn't mind trading back into the late first round if there theres a WR that really fits the bill (I personally think there will be a very good WR available in round 2)

Yeah, I agree, trading back would be my least favorite option unless they would still get 1 of the 3 top guys.

The Bengals have enough avg or "good" players. They need ELITE talent. They need to take elite level guys wherever possible.

We are running an outsize zone concept under Pollack. I have no idea why I see so many mentions of Cleveland, Smith, and Carman. Those guys are all classic power man interior olineman. They arent really scheme fits and I would be suprised if we were even looking at any of them at all. We will be looking at guys like cosmi, radunz, kendrick green and guys that will fit better in a wide zone scheme. We will be looking for olineman that can beat the defense to a spot rather than a pure mauler to create space.

(04-22-2021, 09:58 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: We are running an outsize zone concept under Pollack.  I have no idea why I see so many mentions of Cleveland, Smith, and Carman.  Those guys are all classic power man interior olineman.  They arent really scheme fits and I would be suprised if we were even looking at any of them at all.  We will be looking at guys like cosmi, radunz, kendrick green and guys that will fit better in a wide zone scheme.  We will be looking for olineman that can beat the defense to a spot rather than a pure mauler to create space.

I see a lot of people saying Deonte Brown as well.

Even Ace at New Stripe City was talking about taking Brown in his mock draft.

(04-22-2021, 09:58 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: We are running an outsize zone concept under Pollack.  I have no idea why I see so many mentions of Cleveland, Smith, and Carman.  Those guys are all classic power man interior olineman.  They arent really scheme fits and I would be suprised if we were even looking at any of them at all.  We will be looking at guys like cosmi, radunz, kendrick green and guys that will fit better in a wide zone scheme.  We will be looking for olineman that can beat the defense to a spot rather than a pure mauler to create space.

What about Alex Leatherwood and Aaron Banks?  Are they fits?

(04-22-2021, 10:13 AM)Big Boss Wrote: What about Alex Leatherwood and Aaron Banks?  Are they fits?

Burrow recently saying he trusts the FO to make the right pick sounds like he was called into the office and had word with him. 

(04-22-2021, 10:13 AM)Big Boss Wrote: What about Alex Leatherwood and Aaron Banks?  Are they fits?

Banks is a no for scheme fit.  Leatherwood is a yes for scheme fit but Im not very high on him. 

(04-22-2021, 09:58 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: We are running an outsize zone concept under Pollack.  I have no idea why I see so many mentions of Cleveland, Smith, and Carman.  Those guys are all classic power man interior olineman.  They arent really scheme fits and I would be suprised if we were even looking at any of them at all.  We will be looking at guys like cosmi, radunz, kendrick green and guys that will fit better in a wide zone scheme.  We will be looking for olineman that can beat the defense to a spot rather than a pure mauler to create space.

Good point, I would put Eichenberg on the list of guys that fit the outside zone along with Spencer Brown.

Still like the way those power guys move. You never know...

If you are athletic enough to play in an outside zone is it possible for a classic power man IOL to play in it?

(04-22-2021, 12:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good point, I would put Eichenberg on the list of guys that fit the outside zone along with Spencer Brown.

Still like the way those power guys move. You never know...

If you are athletic enough to play in an outside zone is it possible for a classic power man IOL to play in it?

Yeah ideally you would like to get guys that are as big and powerful as possible while also having enough quickness to beat defenders to the spot.  The problem is that most of the guys that fit this mold never get out of the top 15 picks without some major red flags whether it be medical or off field issues.  Most olineman that get the "zone" title are smaller quicker guys where you have to worry if they would get bullied. Its hard to find dancing bears. I dont think carman, smith or cleveland have the movement skills that would work.  Smith did have a good 3 cone at proday but despite his very good 3 cone time I just dont see it on tape.  Hes gonna be a good guard in a power scheme just doesnt look to fit what we are trying to do.  Carman is the most intriguing of the bunch for me but 32.5" arms means he most likely will have play guard.  He didnt work out at pro day due to back injury and he held workout on the 15th but I didnt see any numbers posted it sounds like he just went through oline drills on the 15th.  He weighed in about 20 pounds lighter than listed playing weight but no way to know how his movement skills looked.  If he looked great after shedding that 20 lbs I wouldent hesitate to take him in rd 2.

There is one guy that I really like that we could get later in draft.  The issue with him is MAJOR red flags on this guy.   I would think this lineman most likely wont be on our draft board and for good reason.  Josh Ball OT Marshall got kicked out of fla st for beating up his girlfriend there was supposedly multiple incidents that lead to his dismissal.  I dont know if the guy has changed his life or not but I do think he has starting OT talent at the NFL level and could most likely be had in 4th round.  Personally I think hes better than most of the guys I see people talking about taking in rd 2.  Hopefully the guy has turned around his life and bengals have done homework on him.

(04-22-2021, 10:18 PM)mikey6866 Wrote:  He weighed in about 20 pounds lighter than listed playing weight but no way to know how his movement skills looked.  If he looked great after shedding that 20 lbs I wouldent hesitate to take him in rd 2.

Could be that he never lost any weight.  Lots of college rosters list guys a little taller and heavier than they really are.

(04-21-2021, 03:51 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Yes, he had 1 outstanding year where it was impossible to double team the guy because of Jefferson, Marshall, Moss, Edwards-Helaire.

Maybe that translates perfectly into the NFL with Higgins, Boyd and Mixon around him. Teams will have to pick their poison.