(04-21-2021, 09:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If Turner was still here, I'd really be worried about the development of a player like Sewell.  However, since we all saw what Pollack did when he was handed top talent in Dallas, I'm not worried.

That's fair. I'll be the first to admit that I think Sewell has a ton of potential and could be elite, but I think he needs a good bit of refinement. I wish Oregon didn't run such a simple offense and he was challenged more there. 


I also wish that he had a coach other than Cristobal considering the Bama linemen didn't start to make impacts in the more until after he stopped being the o-line coach there, but can judge an individual on that. 

(04-21-2021, 08:55 PM)blt4584 Wrote: I mean the guy in college that gave him the most trouble was when he had to occasional butt heads with Derrick Brown, an interior lineman. Being a OG would help since his problems now are him being very passive in pass pro and his feet getting messed up. I don't think he is a project, but he's still not very realized as a player yet.

As far as Boling goes, he played all the line at UGA in a more pro style system. 

This is a really tired and overblown example. Watch the game, if that is too long watch the youtube video Sewell vs Auburn. There was 1 (one) play where Brown got leverage on Sewell and stood him up on a run to Sewell's side. Oregon had stacked the left side of the line and Auburn Slanted into it. Brown didn't even make the tackle, he just stood Sewell up.

If you even bother to watch this, you will see a 19 year old guy manhandling older players, many of whom are in the NFL now. He made plays everywhere. It was not him just sitting back in pass pro, it was an awesome example of what an incredibly gifted player he is. At 320+lbs he was picking off LB and DBs at the next level, on the move.

(04-21-2021, 09:47 PM)Burma Wrote: This is a really tired and overblown example. Watch the game, if that is too long watch the youtube video Sewell vs Auburn. There was 1 (one) play where Brown got leverage on Sewell and stood him up on a run to Sewell's side. Oregon had stacked the left side of the line and Auburn Slanted into it. Brown didn't even make the tackle, he just stood Sewell up.

If you even bother to watch this, you will see a 19 year old guy manhandling older players, many of whom are in the NFL now. He made plays everywhere. It was not him just sitting back in pass pro, it was an awesome example of what an incredibly gifted player he is. At 320+lbs he was picking off LB and DBs at the next level, on the move.

It was not just one play. Here’s a clip with a handful of snaps from that game (both good and bad). Baldinger points to a few things he doesn’t like.

.@oregonfootball @peneisewell58 @nfl #NFL #NFLDRAFT #Trenches lots to love about Sewell but has work to do to be the consistent FORCE everyone is looking for at OT. #BaldysBreakdowns pic.twitter.com/ZsjJHXYi0M

— Brian Baldinger (@BaldyNFL) March 2, 2021

(04-21-2021, 10:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It was not just one play. Here’s a clip with a handful of snaps from that game (both good and bad). Baldinger points to a few things he doesn’t like.

.@oregonfootball @peneisewell58 @nfl #NFL #NFLDRAFT #Trenches lots to love about Sewell but has work to do to be the consistent FORCE everyone is looking for at OT. #BaldysBreakdowns pic.twitter.com/ZsjJHXYi0M

— Brian Baldinger (@BaldyNFL) March 2, 2021

Hadn't seen Baldi's video. Good stuff.  That first bad play he showed I am "meh" on. It was a well designed blitz that forced Sewell into accounting for the blitzer and not being able to fully engage the end initially  The beat inside needs cleaned up, and hands were wide on the clip of Brown getting into his chest.

But that's it. That narrative of him struggling against Brown comes down to 1 or 2 plays where he got stood up on a run play. That's like saying Ja'Marr Chase had troubles against Alabama because he dropped 2 passes.

(04-20-2021, 06:13 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, for slot guys. And we’re not moving Boyd to the outside no matter who we draft.

Dated thinking oday's game WRs are interchangeable  more and more with spread 

(04-22-2021, 12:50 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Dated thinking oday's game WRs are interchangeable  more and more with spread 

Umm...no. Tyler Boyd lined up in the slot 76.6% of his snaps last year. We’re not moving him. And nor should we. He’s elite as a slot WR, and not nearly as good on the outside.

Career yards per route run averages at outside receiver for @PFF’s top WRs:

▪️ Rashod Bateman — 2.7 (633 routes)
▪️ Ja’Marr Chase — 2.7 (568)
▪️ DeVonta Smith — 2.6 (1,024)

▪️ Terrace Marshall — 2.3 (423)
▪️ Kadarius Toney — 2.1 (167)

▪️ Jaylen Waddle — 1.5 (124)

— Austin Gayle (@PFF_AustinGayle) April 21, 2021

That’s pretty much the list of the main outside guys in this draft. Maybe add Nico Collins. Like I said, it’s a much deeper draft for slot receivers.

(04-21-2021, 02:31 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I could not possibly disagree with you anymore on everything you just said.

WR is not top heavy. I see 10 to 12 really great WRs that will contribute in this draft. and stand by my belief when it is all said and done and we look back at this draft Dyami Brown will be one of the best WRs in this draft. He is projected in the 2nd round.

I like Dyami Brown, but you listed 10-12 "really great" WRs.  Can you list more that you are sure will be there in Rd 2 that are NOT slot WRs, but outside WRs that can get open quickly and have great downfield ball-tracking skills?  This is the biggest area of need for the offense when it comes to threatening all parts of the field.  

The offensive line talent goes deep sure... but for "solid" type of guys and decent type of guys. But guys with the high ceiling and abilities of Sewell and Slater..... that is the end of the list.

Not true at all.  Darrisaw, Cosmi, Eichenberg, Leatherwood, Jenkins, Mayfield, Radunz are all likely top 50 picks.  The high ceiling and abilities you list for Slater and Sewell are not exclusive to them.  They both have length question marks and Sewell played a poor level of competition.  He had some struggles when he faced Auburn.  Every talking head says the same things about Sewell:  He is so big, carries the weight so well, and moves so quickly for a big man.  Well, Spencer Brown is BIGGER, MORE ATHLETIC, and STRONGER.  Brown had a short shuttle time faster than some running backs.  Why is he not the #1 OT on the board.  Because of technique and level of competition.  And I LOVE Brown as a developmental RT.  Would I love Sewell or Slater in stripes?  Yes.  Will I use the #5 overall pick for a guy that will likely start at RG and (hopefully) be our RT of the future?  No.  

Reiff would move to RG (as he has said he is willing to and has played there before plus, he is on a 1 year deal) and anyone that counts on Jonah as our long-term LT has faith in a total unknown that can't stay on the field. Sewell projects as a LT, if you are selling him as less then that, it is purely a bias for Chase, nothing else.

On this team, I am not moving Jonah from LT.  He played very well in what was essentially his rookie season with an absolute zero next to him at LG.  Hated the scheme and coach as well.  I am not saying Sewell is a RT, but on this team that is his best fit.  He hasn't played in over a year and I am not starting him week 1 at LT.  

Chase opens up the offense? No more then any other WR we draft that can run a deep route. Pitts would open it up more, Sewell would open it up more. Chase can provide the explosive play from time to time, but at 6 feet tall, he isn't some unique target like Pitts would be. As for Sewell, having a line that can open up running lanes and provide a clean pocket does more for the offense then any one skill player.   

Pitts is a heck of an athlete, but the Bengals simply don't operate with a TE in 11 personnel more than any NFL team.  He also doesn't have close to the short-space quickness of Chase.  Chase was one of two athletes that posted a sub 4-second short shuttle. If you know anything about WRs and abilities to run routes and create separation, that is a vital skill.  Chase is also ridiculously strong for a WR.  He benched 225 a whopping 22 times.  That beat a lot of offensive linemen.  

Sewell and "any WR" doesn't open up the offense like Chase.  That is just plain stupid.  An outside WR needs to get safeties to drop because they fear his deep speed.  Slot WRs don't force them back and neither do G or RT.  Think of what Chad in his prime did for TJ.   The Bengals current "any" WRs couldn't get separation and open quickly enough against pitt and baltimore...two division foes that we will see twice.  They shut down Boyd and Higgins.  Especially Baltimore.  Because they have outstanding depth at CB and safety.  The Bengals need another weapon to attack those teams.  

Drafting Chase is building backwards, this is what bad teams do... see the Raiders and Lions, who dumped all kinds of draft capital into 1st round WRs when they had bad teams. Guess what they won... that would be nothing.

It would be if they did nothing else.  But they drafted Price in the first round.  They drafted WIlliams in the first round.  They signed Reiff.  They signed XSF and Spain.  And in this draft, they would absolutely draft another offensive line player.  Aside from Chase, this draft could be labeled "trench warfare", as I could see the remainder of their picks being on two OTs, a G, and DT/DEs.  

Smart teams. Build lines, get franchise QB, and supply him with weapons after. 

So, if we want to be a dumb team, poorly built and waste 2021 for no reason, draft Chase.

Again, this is not being dumb.  It is providing an outstanding weapon for a team that started to hit its stride offensively when the guard positions were settled last year.  If you truly look inside the numbers (they have been posted on here), you would see that the offensive line played close to average down the stretch last year.  And that with a horrible defense that had them behind in many games.  I would not say drafting Sewell is dumb, but I say drafting Chase at #5 and the likes of Leatherwood in Rd 2 is better.  

Want to have a shot to win one day? Draft Sewell and Meinerz or Cleveland to shore up the line for the next 7 to 10 years and get anyone of the top 5 WRs next year who all will be labeled just as high as Chase. For example, George Pickens will be labeled the next A.J. Green as he comes out of Georgia. 

I think you are just saying "offensive line" and just not saying "WR" because you simply haven't truly looked at the players at each position.  You heard someone say Sewell is the next Anthony Munoz and probably set in your mind that is the only way the Bengals can get back to the Super Bowl.  Chase is so much more than just a WR.  He has an attitude.  He is a team-first guy that Burrow raves about his dedication and his leadership.  If you look up PFF ratings for deep passes (those that traveled over 20 yards in the air), Chase scored a ridiculous 99.0.  He literally had one drop.  19 receptions with something like 7 TDs.  That rating is better than most WRs had on passes at the LOS.  I struggled to see where Ross went wrong, from a purely football standpoint, and I recalled a lot of deep balls being so poorly underthrown that he would have to stop, catch the ball, and then start again. I thought with a better QB, he would be unstoppable, but it appears that he struggles to catch the ball while in motion.  Some athletes heads are very steady at top speed, allowing their eyes to stay focused.  Ross must not have that ability, but Chase....he tracks balls with uncanny accuracy and his incredible athleticism, toughness, and drive make him a lethal combination.   If the Bengals draft him, and Higgins and Boyd stay healthy all season (along with Chase), I will tell you right now that the Bengals will make the playoffs and they will all have over 1000 yards receiving.  

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(04-21-2021, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To all of those claiming that Ja'Marr Chase will somehow open up the offense.  How exactly does adding a WR open up an offense?  Wasn't that the same argument people made when the Bengals selected John Ross?  WTF, people..

The way to truly "open up" an offense is to protect the franchise QB, and develop a strong rushing attack.  Those are things that Penei Sewell can help with, Chase, not so much.  To not be constantly in a "must pass" situation, able to run the ball with authority, and protect the QB when you do elect to pass is the ultimate opening up of an offense.

I was one of those guys supporting Ross.  And while I didn't have his head examined (I hope the team did), I saw what Ross could do on film.  He scared the shit out of defenses.  One common characteristic of Ross that I viewed as a potential advantage, but ended up being a detriment, was how his horrible QB would always underthrow his deep passes.  

Ross would stop, come back to the ball, and then have to run by the defenders he already dusted once.  He did this time and time again, and he did it against some first round NFL corners.  I thought that with a better QB, he would catch those balls in stride and be gone. However, it appears that the QB was doing Ross a favor, as when he is running full speed, he loses the ball.  His eyes don't track the ball well AT ALL at speed.  I have heard it described as a bobble-head, where the head isn't as steady and the eyes lose some of their tracking ability.

How does this related to Chase?  I will tell you:  He is a polar opposite or Ross.  PFF had him rated a 99.0 on deep passes.  That is, passes that traveled over 20 yards in the air.  He was 19/20.  One drop.  Something like 7 TDs.  Chase tracks the ball SO WELL at speed.  It is uncanny.  Factor in his incredible short shuttle, which shows how he can change direction and snap off routes, and you have a guy that can not only get open quickly, but make plays down the field.  That will force safeties toward him and will help open up the underneath for guys like Boyd and Higgins, as well as the TEs and RBs. There is that expression again. 

Chase is also a fricking bully.  Watch what happens when guys try to press him:  He shoves them in to the ground.  22 reps on the bench of 225 lbs beats a lot of offensive linemen.  In college, guys were allowed to mug him all the way down the field.  Not the NFL.  5 yards.  

He wasn't just good in HS and LSU, but he set NATIONAL RECORDS in both.  He is an alpha.  I could care less if he played at LSU or not, as it relates to his relationship with Burrow.  I view that as icing on the cake, but LSU does have a pretty good track record of churning out top NFL talent.  

I said it on another post and I will say it again here:  If Chase, Boyd, and Higgins (and Burrow) are healthy all 16 games, they will all likely be 1000 yard receivers and the Bengals will be a playoff team.  Yep, I believe in the triple threat that much.  ZT is all about the 11 personnel.  Give him the top WR to add to an already solid group and see what he can do.  

Lastly, AJ Green was targeted 104 times last year.  He had 43 receptions.  Despite that low %, there will need to be someone to come in and take those 104 targets.  I am not trusting that to even a 2nd round talent.  We need an alpha there, and Chase is that guy.  

(04-21-2021, 08:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure seems that way now, doesn't it?  Take yourself back to the time of the 2017 draft.  All we saw were highlights of John Ross catching long balls for TDs, then the fastest man at the combine stuff.  History repeats itself.  Taking any WR with our first pick is as wrong now, as it was in 2017.

What about when they took AJ Green?  

(04-22-2021, 12:57 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Umm...no. Tyler Boyd lined up in the slot 76.6% of his snaps last year. We’re not moving him. And nor should we. He’s elite as a slot WR, and not nearly as good on the outside.

And they tried to help Green with slot formations to give him a better release.  It didn't help.  Boyd staying in the slot will only make the offense better.  

(04-21-2021, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To all of those claiming that Ja'Marr Chase will somehow open up the offense.  How exactly does adding a WR open up an offense?  Wasn't that the same argument people made when the Bengals selected John Ross?  WTF, people..

The way to truly "open up" an offense is to protect the franchise QB, and develop a strong rushing attack.  Those are things that Penei Sewell can help with, Chase, not so much.  To not be constantly in a "must pass" situation, able to run the ball with authority, and protect the QB when you do elect to pass is the ultimate opening up of an offense.

Wasn't the latter paragraph the thinking when we took Ogbuehi and Price?

It doesn't matter what your philosophy is if you draft bad players.  Ross doesn't prove Chase won't open up the offense any more than Og and Price prove that Sewell won't open up the offense.

(04-22-2021, 10:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I like Dyami Brown, but you listed 10-12 "really great" WRs.  Can you list more that you are sure will be there in Rd 2 that are NOT slot WRs, but outside WRs that can get open quickly and have great downfield ball-tracking skills?  This is the biggest area of need for the offense when it comes to threatening all parts of the field.  



Not true at all.  Darrisaw, Cosmi, Eichenberg, Leatherwood, Jenkins, Mayfield, Radunz are all likely top 50 picks.  The high ceiling and abilities you list for Slater and Sewell are not exclusive to them.  They both have length question marks and Sewell played a poor level of competition.  He had some struggles when he faced Auburn.  Every talking head says the same things about Sewell:  He is so big, carries the weight so well, and moves so quickly for a big man.  Well, Spencer Brown is BIGGER, MORE ATHLETIC, and STRONGER.  Brown had a short shuttle time faster than some running backs.  Why is he not the #1 OT on the board.  Because of technique and level of competition.  And I LOVE Brown as a developmental RT.  Would I love Sewell or Slater in stripes?  Yes.  Will I use the #5 overall pick for a guy that will likely start at RG and (hopefully) be our RT of the future?  No.  



On this team, I am not moving Jonah from LT.  He played very well in what was essentially his rookie season with an absolute zero next to him at LG.  Hated the scheme and coach as well.  I am not saying Sewell is a RT, but on this team that is his best fit.  He hasn't played in over a year and I am not starting him week 1 at LT.  



Pitts is a heck of an athlete, but the Bengals simply don't operate with a TE in 11 personnel more than any NFL team.  He also doesn't have close to the short-space quickness of Chase.  Chase was one of two athletes that posted a sub 4-second short shuttle. If you know anything about WRs and abilities to run routes and create separation, that is a vital skill.  Chase is also ridiculously strong for a WR.  He benched 225 a whopping 22 times.  That beat a lot of offensive linemen.  

Sewell and "any WR" doesn't open up the offense like Chase.  That is just plain stupid.  An outside WR needs to get safeties to drop because they fear his deep speed.  Slot WRs don't force them back and neither do G or RT.  Think of what Chad in his prime did for TJ.   The Bengals current "any" WRs couldn't get separation and open quickly enough against pitt and baltimore...two division foes that we will see twice.  They shut down Boyd and Higgins.  Especially Baltimore.  Because they have outstanding depth at CB and safety.  The Bengals need another weapon to attack those teams.  



It would be if they did nothing else.  But they drafted Price in the first round.  They drafted WIlliams in the first round.  They signed Reiff.  They signed XSF and Spain.  And in this draft, they would absolutely draft another offensive line player.  Aside from Chase, this draft could be labeled "trench warfare", as I could see the remainder of their picks being on two OTs, a G, and DT/DEs.  



Again, this is not being dumb.  It is providing an outstanding weapon for a team that started to hit its stride offensively when the guard positions were settled last year.  If you truly look inside the numbers (they have been posted on here), you would see that the offensive line played close to average down the stretch last year.  And that with a horrible defense that had them behind in many games.  I would not say drafting Sewell is dumb, but I say drafting Chase at #5 and the likes of Leatherwood in Rd 2 is better.  



I think you are just saying "offensive line" and just not saying "WR" because you simply haven't truly looked at the players at each position.  You heard someone say Sewell is the next Anthony Munoz and probably set in your mind that is the only way the Bengals can get back to the Super Bowl.  Chase is so much more than just a WR.  He has an attitude.  He is a team-first guy that Burrow raves about his dedication and his leadership.  If you look up PFF ratings for deep passes (those that traveled over 20 yards in the air), Chase scored a ridiculous 99.0.  He literally had one drop.  19 receptions with something like 7 TDs.  That rating is better than most WRs had on passes at the LOS.  I struggled to see where Ross went wrong, from a purely football standpoint, and I recalled a lot of deep balls being so poorly underthrown that he would have to stop, catch the ball, and then start again. I thought with a better QB, he would be unstoppable, but it appears that he struggles to catch the ball while in motion.  Some athletes heads are very steady at top speed, allowing their eyes to stay focused.  Ross must not have that ability, but Chase....he tracks balls with uncanny accuracy and his incredible athleticism, toughness, and drive make him a lethal combination.   If the Bengals draft him, and Higgins and Boyd stay healthy all season (along with Chase), I will tell you right now that the Bengals will make the playoffs and they will all have over 1000 yards receiving. 

Outside WR's

Chase, Waddle, Bateman, Marshall Jr, Toney, Dyami Brown, Josh Palmer, Armon-Ra St. Brown, Tylan Wallace, Nico Collins, Simi Fehoko, Cornell Powell, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Seth Williams, Sage Surratt


I can find WR talent in any round of this draft that comes in and does what this team needs. A 3rd option (we already have two good options in Higgins and Boyd we aren't sitting here with no WRs) that can line up outside and stretch the field, that was your reason for taking Chase over the greater need on the OL. Well see above... that entire list lines up outside and I stopped at round 3/4 guys. There is a longer list if you go deeper. Those guys can all stretch the field and make the safeties "respect" the deep ball. But you know what makes a defense really respect a team. When they aren't one dimensional. A good Oline allows better running lanes and a better running game. Of course better coaching helps as well.

I love the fact that you think you know more about football, specifically the Cincinnati Bengals, then guys who get paid to cover it who all say that Sewell is the pick. See Lapham, Munoz, McGee, the list goes on of really smart football guys who say you have to pick Sewell. But message board poster and Duke Tobin... they know more with their combined 0 NFL snaps played.




Darrisaw, Cosmi, Eichenberg, Leatherwood, Jenkins, Mayfield, Radunz are all likely top 50 picks.


Darrisaw will go round one. Eichenberg is not athletic and is playing at his ceiling, every draft expert on the planet says the same thing. Cosmi will be good and will be gone round one.

Radunz.... I like this kid but I really like when people who literally say in their post "Sewell didn't play high level competition" use Radunz as the replacement for him. How does that even compute in your brain... Sewell didn't play good people we no draft him... but then... Radunz is awesome in round two! Bro... his competition level is below the MAC....

Leatherwood has knocks on his game, not being aggressive, being lazy. Personally, I haven't liked him throughout the entire process. 

Jenkins plays in a spread offense. Who knows how he'll actually transition to the pro game.





Not moving Jonah??? Why... what has he shown you since he was drafted that makes you believe he can play LT every week?


There is nothing. The guy is less durable then Tyler Eifert who actually played a full season once. If Jonah plays a full season magically maybe you don't need a new LT but guess what, Reiff is on a one year deal so you certainly need a new RT and again Reiff has played G in the NFL.




 But they drafted Price in the first round.  They drafted WIlliams in the first round.  They signed Reiff.  They signed XSF and Spain. 


Price is the perfect example of why you draft Sewell. We didn't take the top ranked guy on the OL in Frank Ragnow because everyone said "There is so much depth at the OL in this class and there isn't much difference between the top guys and the later guys." 


Does that statement sound familiar? How'd that play out for us taking Price the 2nd or 3rd option for a position of need versus staying put and taking the best option.

Answer... it screwed us. We have a total bust in Price while Ragnow the guy we passed on is still kicking ass in the league.

Williams can't stay healthy... he has been in the league 2 years and missed one full season and then went down multiple times in his second season. That is a bad sign for your OL guys. 

Reiff - 1 year

Spain - emergency back up after missing on Zeitler and Thuney and was in such high demand that he say around for weeks with no one talking to him.

XSF - Injured 3 straight years. Again, you can't count on him. As guys age, they don't tend to get more durable.



I'm saying Sewell because he is the clear cut best in this class. He is going to be a great pro for 10 plus years, you can look at the tape and see it. All the hype about Chase... you know this personally? You've met him, you've talked to him? Cause the same level of hype is being said by coaches about Sewell.

Downplaying Sewell cause you have a man crush on Chase is poor logic. 

The only worse logic in your entire post..

Saying this team will be in the playoffs if it drafts Chase. I read that and literally cried laughing. If you believe that, I shouldn't even have bothered trying to talk sense into you. I heard the same shit last season "We draft Burrow and playoffs here we come" Really... how'd that turn out?


Did Mike Brown sell the team?
Zac Taylor get fired?
Lou get fired?
The Oline get three upgrades?

Nope... didn't think so. This team isn't going to the playoffs in 21 if the draft Chase or Sewell.

So, the smart move, draft Sewell, fix the line get these guys playing together and then get George Pickens in 2022 when the team is actually closer and you have a new coach.

Or... do your great idea, and we can celebrate another sub .500 season but hey "atleast we haz Chase back with Burrow!!!!!" 

(04-22-2021, 01:04 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: *Snip*

(04-22-2021, 11:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What about when they took AJ Green?  

AJ Green was absolutely a great player.  However, for a team with no QB at the moment, that was a poor pick by position selection that put the team at serious risk of not having a viable starting QB for the 2011 season.

They got lucky in the 2nd, and Andy Dalton turned into not only a viable starter, but was even in the MVP conversation for part of the 2015 season.

Basically, the Bengals made a stupid move, and then got by on pure luck to cover the error.  Folks usually don't get that lucky, twice for the same mistake.  They need to build the OL, not just for the health benefit of Joe Burrow, but for the good of the win/loss percentage of the franchise.

(04-22-2021, 12:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: Wasn't the latter paragraph the thinking when we took Ogbuehi and Price?

It doesn't matter what your philosophy is if you draft bad players.  Ross doesn't prove Chase won't open up the offense any more than Og and Price prove that Sewell won't open up the offense.

I believe that the entire Bengal fan community gave a collective WTF??, to the Ogbuehi pick.  Price was a desperation reach, as the Center they actually wanted was gone, and they panicked.  They just got extremely lucky that Hopkins was there and able to step in, and perform at a level of mediocre to average.

(04-22-2021, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I believe that the entire Bengal fan community gave a collective WTF??, to the Ogbuehi pick.  Price was a desperation reach, as the Center they actually wanted was gone, and they panicked.  They just got extremely lucky that Hopkins was there and able to step in, and perform at a level of mediocre to average.

Some were probably in that boat with Ogbuehi, but he was projected as a Top 10 pick before his ACL injury in his bowl game and Whit and Andre were coming up on the end of their contracts, so it made sense, especially when you consider their penchant for having their 1st round pick sit for a year under Marvin.  He just sucked.  They wound up with Price because they traded down to pick up Cordy Glenn and didn't address C in FA, instead going with the popular board opinion that they need to take a C in the 1st or 2nd.  Neither Price nor Glenn really panned out, either.  On the other hand, Levi Jones was a WTF pick but that talk all ended after a few games into his rookie year when he proved he was the real deal.  

Point being, it doesn't matter what your philosophy is if you wind up taking bad players.  Comparing Ross to Chase is no more fair than comparing Og to Sewell.

(04-22-2021, 01:04 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Outside WR's

Chase, Waddle, Bateman, Marshall Jr, Toney, Dyami Brown, Josh Palmer, Armon-Ra St. Brown, Tylan Wallace, Nico Collins, Simi Fehoko, Cornell Powell, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Seth Williams, Sage Surratt.  The ones I bolded are not even close to being what Chase or the other top 3 offer.  I like Bateman and Marshall Jr, but neither of them are the phone-booth quick that Chase is to get open early.  They are more of a long strider.  Like Higgins.  Toney is a slot WR.  He may have had some snaps outside, but very few and he simply doesn't have the deep ball tracking.  The rest of these guys are far from "really great" with downfield tracking skills AND ability to get open quickly.  They simply aren't the best option to pick up the 104 targets that left with AJ Green.  


I can find WR talent in any round of this draft that comes in and does what this team needs. A 3rd option (we already have two good options in Higgins and Boyd we aren't sitting here with no WRs) that can line up outside and stretch the field, that was your reason for taking Chase over the greater need on the OL. Well see above... that entire list lines up outside and I stopped at round 3/4 guys. There is a longer list if you go deeper. Those guys can all stretch the field and make the safeties "respect" the deep ball. But you know what makes a defense really respect a team. When they aren't one dimensional. A good Oline allows better running lanes and a better running game. Of course better coaching helps as well.

The Ravens and steelers shut down Boyd and Higgins last year.  We had no answer.  You think they just needed more time to get open?  They have great back half of their defenses (especially baltimore) and the Bengals face them twice a year.  You think an upgrade at RG or maybe RT if they kick reiff inside (they have already upgraded the tackle spot wit Reiff) will solve that problem?  I don't.  Not at all.  

I love the fact that you think you know more about football, specifically the Cincinnati Bengals, then guys who get paid to cover it who all say that Sewell is the pick. See Lapham, Munoz, McGee, the list goes on of really smart football guys who say you have to pick Sewell. But message board poster and Duke Tobin... they know more with their combined 0 NFL snaps played.

This is just the whiny name-calling portion of the post.  Not needed.  I never claimed to know more than those guys, but if you are going to go with the so-called experts, I will just say that it is about split on who to choose and my preference of Chase isn't so much an indictment of Sewell, but faith in the rest of the draft class of OTs. 




Darrisaw, Cosmi, Eichenberg, Leatherwood, Jenkins, Mayfield, Radunz are all likely top 50 picks.


Darrisaw will go round one. Eichenberg is not athletic and is playing at his ceiling, every draft expert on the planet says the same thing. Cosmi will be good and will be gone round one.

Radunz.... I like this kid but I really like when people who literally say in their post "Sewell didn't play high level competition" use Radunz as the replacement for him. How does that even compute in your brain... Sewell didn't play good people we no draft him... but then... Radunz is awesome in round two! Bro... his competition level is below the MAC....

Leatherwood has knocks on his game, not being aggressive, being lazy. Personally, I haven't liked him throughout the entire process. 

Jenkins plays in a spread offense. Who knows how he'll actually transition to the pro game.

Remind me what offense Sewell played for?  And there is a big difference in Rd 2 reasoning on opposition talent level vs. #5 overall.  





Not moving Jonah??? Why... what has he shown you since he was drafted that makes you believe he can play LT every week?


There is nothing. The guy is less durable then Tyler Eifert who actually played a full season once. If Jonah plays a full season magically maybe you don't need a new LT but guess what, Reiff is on a one year deal so you certainly need a new RT and again Reiff has played G in the NFL.

Last year was Jonah's essential rookie season, and with COVID affecting his offseason abilities to work with his coaches and teammates.  Despite no talent next to him, and an offense that was having to air it out as they were mostly playing from behind (especially early), I thought he showed plenty of reasons to have faith in him as our LT of the future.  Watch Sewell's tape against Auburn.  You want to go with him at LT and possibly weaken the position and move Jonah to a new position.  You like to quote or claim what experts think.  Well, I can tell you the Bengals won't be starting Sewell at LT if they draft him.  




 But they drafted Price in the first round.  They drafted WIlliams in the first round.  They signed Reiff.  They signed XSF and Spain. 


Price is the perfect example of why you draft Sewell. We didn't take the top ranked guy on the OL in Frank Ragnow because everyone said "There is so much depth at the OL in this class and there isn't much difference between the top guys and the later guys." 


Does that statement sound familiar? How'd that play out for us taking Price the 2nd or 3rd option for a position of need versus staying put and taking the best option.

Answer... it screwed us. We have a total bust in Price while Ragnow the guy we passed on is still kicking ass in the league.

Williams can't stay healthy... he has been in the league 2 years and missed one full season and then went down multiple times in his second season. That is a bad sign for your OL guys. 

Reiff - 1 year

Spain - emergency back up after missing on Zeitler and Thuney and was in such high demand that he say around for weeks with no one talking to him.

XSF - Injured 3 straight years. Again, you can't count on him. As guys age, they don't tend to get more durable.

Again, you can keep bringing up the negative potential of the line as it sits and I would just agree with you (for the most part).  The Bengals WILL be addressing the line more in this draft if they take Chase at #5.  They will likely go OT in Rd 2 and G in Rd 3 or 4.  XSF and Spain will compete for the LG position and Reiff is an upgrade at RT.  He has also proven to be very reliable.  Add a guy like Leatherwood that can start at RG and develop as RT in Rd 2 and your line is looking really good.  Sign a G in Rd 3 or 4 like Ben Cleveland and you have quality depth and a mauler for RG next year.  Plus, they could always bring Reiff back for another year.  



I'm saying Sewell because he is the clear cut best in this class. He is going to be a great pro for 10 plus years, you can look at the tape and see it. All the hype about Chase... you know this personally? You've met him, you've talked to him? Cause the same level of hype is being said by coaches about Sewell. 

Downplaying Sewell cause you have a man crush on Chase is poor logic. 

The only worse logic in your entire post..

Saying this team will be in the playoffs if it drafts Chase. I read that and literally cried laughing. If you believe that, I shouldn't even have bothered trying to talk sense into you. I heard the same shit last season "We draft Burrow and playoffs here we come" Really... how'd that turn out?

I guess we will see.  


Did Mike Brown sell the team?
Zac Taylor get fired?
Lou get fired?
The Oline get three upgrades?

Nope... didn't think so. This team isn't going to the playoffs in 21 if the draft Chase or Sewell.

So, the smart move, draft Sewell, fix the line get these guys playing together and then get George Pickens in 2022 when the team is actually closer and you have a new coach.

Or... do your great idea, and we can celebrate another sub .500 season but hey "atleast we haz Chase back with Burrow!!!!!" 

Again, you deal in one dimension:  Sewell or Bust.  You aren't even scouting the other linemen or giving Chase a long look because of the position group he plays in and you disagree with it philosophically.  I disagree with using the #5 overall pick on a guy that will most likely play RT for the Bengals, when I think  they can find players like that in Rd 2, but the drop off from a guy like Chase to the guys you claim are really good outside WRs is much bigger in my eyes than the gap from Sewell at RT to someone like Eichenberg or Leatherwood at RT.  

(04-22-2021, 07:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: AJ Green was absolutely a great player.  However, for a team with no QB at the moment, that was a poor pick by position selection that put the team at serious risk of not having a viable starting QB for the 2011 season.

They got lucky in the 2nd, and Andy Dalton turned into not only a viable starter, but was even in the MVP conversation for part of the 2015 season.

Basically, the Bengals made a stupid move, and then got by on pure luck to cover the error.  Folks usually don't get that lucky, twice for the same mistake.  They need to build the OL, not just for the health benefit of Joe Burrow, but for the good of the win/loss percentage of the franchise.

You are absolutely correct, my friend.  That was luck, plain and simple.  It was almost like they were going to just bite the bullet and suck for Luck if they didn't get Dalton and they ended up squeaking in to the playoffs.  

While I completely agree that they need to "build the line", I don't see using the #5 overall pick on a guy you will play at RT.  Not when there is a game-changer like Chase on the board.  I have called the rest of the draft "Trench Warfare" as I would like to see 3 picks on the offensive line and the other 4 on the defensive line.  I just see how the ratbirds and steelers shut down Boyd and Higgins and we need an elite third weapon to attack those defenses if they want to win the division. 

Again, you deal in one dimension:  Sewell or Bust.  You aren't even scouting the other linemen or giving Chase a long look because of the position group he plays in and you disagree with it philosophically.  I disagree with using the #5 overall pick on a guy that will most likely play RT for the Bengals, when I think  they can find players like that in Rd 2, but the drop off from a guy like Chase to the guys you claim are really good outside WRs is much bigger in my eyes than the gap from Sewell at RT to someone like Eichenberg or Leatherwood at RT. 





This made me laugh...

I literally explained my issue with Leatherwood, Eichenberg, Radunz, Jenkins etc,

I can't read the post for you guy.

But hey good news, Tobin is a moron, so you'll get your guy at 5.

Unfortunately that means the people that want Sewell get to enjoy another sub .500 season with a backwards built team.

Maybe once we turn Burrow into Luck, you guys will realize that no matter how much the game changes, you need an above average OL to compete. And right now, we don't even have an average line.