(05-10-2021, 11:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually a lot of people around here liked Turner.  They thought we needed a "real man" like him to make our O-linemen tougher.

it's sad because it's true

(05-10-2021, 11:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually a lot of people around here liked Turner.  They thought we needed a "real man" like him to make our O-linemen tougher.

I think if you made a venn diagram with those people and the people who thought/hoped Burrow was going to grab people by the facemask and yell in their faces to hold them accountable when they make mistakes would have an awful lot of overlap. Lol

(05-10-2021, 11:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually a lot of people around here liked Turner.  They thought we needed a "real man" like him to make our O-linemen tougher.

Well evidently being a "real man" makes your offensive line 10 times worse than when you took it over.  

I'll take a coach who isnt' a "real man" every day if he can make an improvement in technique, good running game, play calling, ect. 

I could be wrong but I recall most of the folks on this board were not happy when Pollack was let go or left ( whatever the reality) and was replaced by Turner.

(05-10-2021, 11:43 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I could be wrong but I recall most of the folks on this board were not happy when Pollack was let go or left ( whatever the reality) and was replaced by Turner.

This is what I remember.

(05-10-2021, 11:43 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I could be wrong but I recall most of the folks on this board were not happy when Pollack was let go or left ( whatever the reality) and was replaced by Turner.

I believe you are correct.

It was mostly outrage about hiring bully/sexist/homophobe/out of the pros loser Jim Turner who seems like he only got the job due to nepotism, but losing Pollack definitely was part of it, since he was considered a huge "get" when we first signed him.

He didn't fulfil the promise we thought he had in his brief time with the team but, since he left, it has only gotten exponentially worse.

Hopefully, he turns it back around and we begin improving again.

(05-10-2021, 02:32 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Do we? He inherited an already great OL in Dallas, though. We never saw him ever develop anyone or do work. You or I could have been a good OL coach in Dallas in 2015.

Heading into 2015....
Tyron Smith (2011 1st rounder): Pro Bowl 2013/2014, 2nd Team All-Pro 2013, 1st Team All-Pro 2014
Travis Frederick (2013 1st rounder): Pro Bowl 2014, 2nd Team All-Pro 2014
Zack Martin (2014 1st rounder): Pro Bowl 2014, 1st Team All-Pro 2014

So when Frank Pollack became the OL Coach for the Cowboys in 2015, he inherited two 1st Team All-Pros and a 2nd Team All-Pro on his OL. All young. Even the other two guys might not be Pro Bowlers, but Doug Free (79.3 PFF in 2014) and Ronald Leary (79.9 PFF in 2014) were anything but scrubs. Both would have been the highest rated guys on the Bengals OL. Lol

You give me those 5 guys at that time and I will be a great OL coach, too. Heck, DeMarco Murray was the OPoY, Tony Romo and Jason Witten were Pro Bowlers, and Dez Bryant was an All-Pro... all in 2014 before Pollack took over.

Pollack is Paul Guenther to Bill Callahan's Mike Zimmer in this scenario.

1. Pollack was the assistant line Coach in Dallas when most of those guys were drafted. Do you have proof that he was not involved in drafting or developing those players, because I'd say he probably was.

2. Why are you continuously ignoring the impact Pollack had on this team? This is a factual thing. It happened. He took over a dismal run game and we had our best ranking since 2-0-0-0 brother. Almost 20 years. That doesn't happen by accident.

Our lowest sack total (37) since 2015 came in the one year Pollack was here. Then you also should look at how the PFF grades dropped like a stone when Pollack left.

Is Pollack some guru? Idk about that. I need to see more. Is he the best o-line coach we've had in 20 years? Probably.

(05-10-2021, 03:22 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: I like this post here

A lot of people just have blind faith and are telling themselves anything to feel ultra super positive about 2021.

Thinking Pollack was the final missing piece and can turn the whole o-line around, and that it’s Turner’s fault that Michael Jordan and Billy Price stink is just barely logical atm

Lol this definitely doesn't describe me. I was team Sewell and I don't think Pollack alone will make this line anything better than average. I have us going 6-10 this year, mainly due to coaching and o-line issues.

I just have respect for Pollack based on his track record in Dallas and Cincy. Especially after watching what a bad line coach looks like after the last 2 years...and for at least 5 years before Pollack as well.

I really believe that Frank Pollack coaching will be the X-factor for the offensive line. I don't think he spent enough time in New York to really make a big difference. New York to me didn't have a lot of talent to work with either. He did start to bring Becton along though.

(05-10-2021, 11:43 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I could be wrong but I recall most of the folks on this board were not happy when Pollack was let go or left ( whatever the reality) and was replaced by Turner.

This is true, and it's for the reasons I list in my above post.

Pollack had a clear impact here. Mixon looked like a beast. He improved our pass blocking as well.

(05-10-2021, 11:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually a lot of people around here liked Turner.  They thought we needed a "real man" like him to make our O-linemen tougher.

Odd. I remember it being a very unpopular hire. As was Lou Anarumo. There was a lot of arguing over those 2 hires. Mainly because their resumes sucked. I won't get into the politics or their personal histories, because those are meaningless. They were just bad hires.

Turner was a VERY unpopular hire and losing Pollack who had the line and the running game on the right trajectory was part of it. We figured he would cause controversy but I don’t think anyone grasped just how bad he would be. He made late tenure Piano Man look like Dante Scarnecchia

(05-10-2021, 11:43 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I could be wrong but I recall most of the folks on this board were not happy when Pollack was let go or left ( whatever the reality) and was replaced by Turner.

I believe that your memory serves you correctly.  Many on here were disappointed that Pollack wasn't retained for 2019.

(05-10-2021, 01:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why are you continuously ignoring the impact Pollack had on this team?

Then you also should look at how the PFF grades dropped like a stone when Pollack left.

Because anything that only happened once is inherently untrustworthy in the NFL. Doubly so in the run game. Otherwise Jeremy Hill and Peyton Hillis would be HoFers. 

Yeah, the PFF grades dropped like a stone because the two best OL on the team left that season. Corey Glenn for all his attitude/motivation problems was at least a starting quality LT. In 2019 he was replaced by 32-year-old Andre Smith being a LT for the first time. Also Clint Boling retired and was replaced by Michael Jordan.

Cordy Glenn > Andre Smith
Clint Boling > Michael Jordan

Of course they dropped like a stone the next year, they didn't have a single starting caliber player on that OL in 2019. Their best player was probably John Miller.

(They were also running Zac Taylor's "scheme".)


- - - - -
Don't get me wrong, I will take him over Turner every day. I just don't see the hype.

(05-10-2021, 02:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Because anything that only happened once is inherently untrustworthy in the NFL. Doubly so in the run game. Otherwise Jeremy Hill and Peyton Hillis would be HoFers. 

Yeah, the PFF grades dropped like a stone because the two best OL on the team left that season. Corey Glenn for all his attitude/motivation problems was at least a starting quality LT. In 2019 he was replaced by 32-year-old Andre Smith being a LT for the first time. Also Clint Boling retired and was replaced by Michael Jordan.

Cordy Glenn > Andre Smith
Clint Boling > Michael Jordan

Of course they dropped like a stone the next year, they didn't have a single starting caliber player on that OL in 2019. Their best player was probably John Miller.

(They were also running Zac Taylor's "scheme".)


- - - - -
Don't get me wrong, I will take him over Turner every day. I just don't see the hype.

The 2018 line put out a better performance than the 2016 line that had Whitworth, Boling and Zeitler...

I attribute Mixon's success more to Pollack than anything. Why you think he was so mad when we let Pollack go, and so thrilled to get him back? To brush that off as a one year wonder deal seems kinda silly when we only had one other season remotely close to being that efficient in the last 20 years...despite countless talented RBs.

As for the PFF grades, I was talking about players who played for both Pollack and Turner

Btw, I think it's a little unfair to remove Pollack's time in Dallas simply because he had talented players (that he was involved in drafting). Maybe he was partly the reason for their success? His career in Dallas did coincide with all of theirs. And we all saw how long Paul Alexander lasted in Dallas. This dude Pollack is definitely the best line coach we've had in a long time. Even if he's just "competent...which I believe he is.

(05-08-2021, 10:28 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Seriously think Pollack can turn this OL around. I think he believes that too. JB is going to know the difference as well, which will give him more confidence behind that line. Pollack is going to make this OL winners.

I could not agree more. I also believe it says a lot when your RB and guys like Hopkins are truly excited that he is back. 

(05-10-2021, 02:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I believe that your memory serves you correctly.  Many on here were disappointed that Pollack wasn't retained for 2019.

I can certainly say I was thrilled when he replaced Alexander and I was very disappointed when he was replaced by Turner. Him and Simmons were the only two from the previous staff that I really felt Taylor should have kept.

(05-10-2021, 11:43 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I could be wrong but I recall most of the folks on this board were not happy when Pollack was let go or left ( whatever the reality) and was replaced by Turner.

That's how I remember it as well. Plenty of us were excited about Zac because it was something completely knew. The Turner hire killed some of that enthusiasm because of how disliked he was. The two years that Turner was here were two too long. Good luck to Texas State dealing with his drill sergeant routine.

(05-08-2021, 06:27 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Thanks for the kind words, Nate!    Yeah, if Pollack were able to suddenly get Billy Price to become noteworthy at Center, that could certainly change the complexion of the OL going forward.  Just imaging huge Trey Hill becoming a viable candidate as our future LG and 1st backup at Center?

Hey, great thread brother. Yes, not saying I am counting on it, just saying I am not throwing it out of the window. Price has a 
good anchor and if he can prepare under Pollack and not get lost out there like under Turner, he might come around. It wasn't
just Price under Turner who was unprepared, it was all our guys which gives me hope.

If your O-line is unprepared and undisciplined they are behind the curb from the get go.

Hard to go up from there. Amazing we did when both Spain and XSF were starting at the Guard spots, we DID look better.

Have very high hopes for Trey Hill as with Carman and D'Ante, all are talented and both Hill and Carman went against big time
competition and played well in college.

(05-09-2021, 03:23 AM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Thanks for sharing. Butch did a really nice job in that piece. Pollack is The Dude. Seriously, listen to one of his interviews, man. He sounds at least a little like Jeff Bridges in The Big Lebowski.  His demeanor's not much different either. LOL 

Lol, give him a white russian and then...

Throw a ferret in the tub.

(05-12-2021, 02:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Lol, give him a white russian and then...

Throw a ferret in the tub.

I believe it was a marmot

(05-12-2021, 02:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I believe it was a marmot

Either way, might be the funniest thing I have ever watched in a movie.