(06-11-2021, 01:00 PM)TJ528 Wrote: What has Lou proven to this point?  Nothing.  If you can't adapt as a coach to talent given to you then you have no business being a defensive coordinator.  Lou's been in over his head for 2 years so far.  If this team is still ranked in the 20-25 range by Game 6 of this season his ass needs fired and elevate Hobby or Golden DC until 2022.   The responsibility for that side of the ball still falls on Zac's shoulders so if Lou's fired then Zac should be gone at seasons end.  It's put up or shut up time for both those coaches. 

Cannot disagree TJ. Make or break year for Zac and Lou no question.

I wanted Wade Phillips in here after last season. No excuse being ran on like that and not being able to rush the QB even with 
backup DT's. You can be able to adapt and make your backups at least serviceable. I do like the players brought in is all I am
saying. Reader, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Ossai, Cam Sample, Shelvin, Hubert etc.

Have Hobby or Golden take over if Lou continues to suck with these guys I agree.

(06-07-2021, 09:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I find different numbers at different sites, but Bengals have at least $18 million in cap space.  I don't see us signing any more expensive free agents.  We might sign a vet WR cut from another team or something like that but it won't cost much.  Plus any free agent we bring in will bump the previous #51 player who makes at least $850K.

Many big Bengal contract extensions have been announce during training camp/pre-season.  I predict we will get a contract extension done with either Bates or Hubbard.  It will be a bad sign if we don't.

Obviously Bates is the #1 priority.  Hubbard is a good player deserving an extension.  Bates is elite.

But if we sign Hubbard and not Bates will we really know the reason.  If Bates just does not trust a long-term deal with the Bengals he will never say anything like that publicly.  Hubbard is more of a local boy who grew up a Bengal fan.  Obviously he will be much more likely to take a chance on a long term deal with the Bengals.

Every NFL team prefers to keep good players they have developed instead of constantly taking chances on free agents from other teams.  That is why such a small percentage of really good players become free agents in their prime.  I have a feeling the Bengals will make a strong push to extend Bates, but if they can't get him then they pretty much have to lock up Hubbard for a few more years.

I will be really concerned if we don't get a deal with either one of them.

There are 6 players without dropping into the vast list of low wage one year contract players. 

Yes, Bates at 1 Million Dollars a year deserves a pay raise. It would be Stupid for Bengals to let this NFL rising star Safety go Free Agent. 

I would also sign Blocking Tackle Reiff to longer than this year.  He now gets paid 7.5 Million.  Hey, Protecting your Star Quarterback does not come cheap.  Bengals always try to go Cheap on O Line, and it NEVER works.  For Burrows sake, sign Reiff longer. 

I would let Uzomah go.  He gets paid 6 Million Dollars.  He is not worth it.  I could find better Tight Ends than him for that kind of money.  Is he Pro Bowl ?  NO.   6 Mil is too much. 

I would let Price go.  He does nothing to earn his 3 Million a year.  He would be the last of the Marvin Draft Picks we say good-bye to, joining Ross, WJ3, Ogbuehi. 

So Uzomah and Price save the team about 9 Million Dollars, which some of that can be applied to keeping Bates and Reiff as Bengals in 2022 Season. 

This leaves Ogunjobi DT at 7.5 Million and  Hubbard DE at 1 Million.  I could care less if Bengals keep them or not.  

So I would like to see Bates and Reiff signed longer.  Bates is too good to lose, and Burrow needs some Blocking and Reiff is worth keeping more than one season. We passed on The Blocker many wanted, to take Chase in The Draft.  That move should mean locking in Reiff more than one year to PROTECT BURROW. 

Keep Bates and Reiff,  let Uzomah and Price go Free Agent, and I have no opinion on Ogunjobi or Hubbard. 

..GO BENGALS

I have not read all posts. but sorry if all of the info was presented earlier, but Bengals are in cap heaven in 2022.

They have 48.586 + any carryover from 2021 after an estimated 26 million addition due to 2022 NFL cap rising significantly. As of now, we have no dead money (had 9.6 million in 2021). So, they have a lot of money now and for 2022. This includes some key guys signed:

Top 3 WR's
Top 3 RB"s
Franchise QB
LT
Center
Top 3 CB's
Starting LB's
9 rookies drafted in 2021
Rookies drafted in 2020
Reader
Hendrickson
Bell

My point being yes Bates is a priority and will not be cheap. Hubbard, I would like to see how he performs in 2021 personally, he is good, but not a great DE, not yet so buyer beware. Either way, we have money to do more in 2021 and still have a lot of money left in 2022 to sign players needed to keep getting better. We also don't have to sign players to one year deals in 2021 that are cut or if we acquire someone in a trade who has more than one year left on his contract. We are in great shape if the right guy(s) become available for an affordable price.

(06-12-2021, 01:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have not read all posts. but sorry if all of the info was presented earlier, but Bengals are in cap heaven in 2022.

They have 48.586 + any carryover from 2021 + after an estimated 26 million addition due to 2022 NFL cap rising significantly. As of now, we have no dead money (had 9.6 million in 2021). So, they have a lot of money now and for 2022. This includes some key guys signed:

Top 3 WR's
Top 3 RB"s
Franchise QB
LT
Center
Top 3 CB's
Starting LB's
9 rookies drafted in 2021
Rookies drafted in 2020
Reader
Hendrickson
Bell

My point being yes Bates is a priority and will not be cheap. Hubbard, I would like to see how he performs in 2021 personally, he is good, but not a great DE, not yet so buyer beware. Either way, we have money to do more in 2021 and still have a lot of money left in 2022 to sign players needed to keep getting better. We also don't have to sign players to one year deals in 2021 that are cut or if we acquire someone in a trade who has more than one year left on his contract. We are in great shape if the right guy(s) become available for an affordable price.

Thanks for the numbers Luvnit, no they weren't provided in this accuracy before this, thanks again.

Signing Bates is the biggest priority of course but I think right now we can get Hubbard at a fraction of the price which would be a
great move by us after coming off of a poor year sack wise. I see Hubbard making a huge jump this year with decent play at the DT
position freeing him up. Now is the time to extend both these guys IMO.

This summer I would like to see Hubbard extended, he wont command great money and it locks up our DE's for a few years. Then in the offseason we extend Bates or at worst apply the franchise tag, safety isn't a huge price 11.1. I would like to see Bates come in at 4/42 thats 10.5 annually. I think that is a deal both sides could be happy with. So for me extentions in order are:

1) Hubbard
2) Bates
3) Reiff
4) Okunjobi

(06-13-2021, 07:46 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: This summer I would like to see Hubbard extended, he wont command great money and it locks up our DE's for a few years. Then in the offseason we extend Bates or at worst apply the franchise tag, safety isn't a huge price 11.1. I would like to see Bates come in at 4/42 thats 10.5 annually. I think that is a deal both sides could be happy with. So for me extentions in order are:

1) Hubbard
2) Bates
3) Reiff
4) Okunjobi

I don't like the thought of the franchise tag myself. Would suck.

I want us to extend Bates for multiple years, he is coming into his own.

Again, Bates and Reiff should be resigned. We need Blocking and Tackling. Do not let them go Free Agent

Uzomah and Price should not be resigned. They are over paid as it is. Let them go Free Agent. I like Uzomah, but he already gets paid too much. He is far from being an elite NFL Tight End.

I have no opinion on Hubbard and Okunjobi, except that Hubbard is NOT the most important person to keep. That would be Bates and Reiff protecting Burrow is up there. I have no problem keeping Hubbard, but Bates is a Super Star that Bengals can not afford to lose. Bates gives us that top notch Safety like an Ed Reed or Ronnie Lott, and we need that. There were players brought in that might beat Hubbard out of a job, the same can not be said for Bates.

Now is the time to be resigning, since Bengals stance is not to talk contracts during playing season. The Paul Brown Family way is if Bates or Reiff are not resigned before season starts, we lose them to Free Agency after season. Bengals need both in 2022.

If Bates goes Free Agent, then it shows why Bengals haven't won a play-off game in 30 years, because this front office doesn't have a clue. Bates is paid 1 million now, and of course you give our best defensive player a pay raise and keep him here.

I wanted to take a look at this thread again, because now is the time for Bengals to be resigning players. Bengals almost never resign players once season starts. They better keep Bates Motel. Nobody escapes from The Bates Motel. Could be best Safety the Bengals have ever had, at least one of the best. Keep Him, if you resign nobody else, Keep Bates Motel. Do not franchise tag him for a year. We need Bates longer than a year. Bengals are paying Bates 1 Mil and you don't get a Safety like Bates for 1 Mil, so Bengals need to get off the cheap and Pay The Man.

Would I let Uzomah, Price, Okunjobi and Hubbard salaries walk to pay Bates and maybe Reiff, YES. Let some salaries walk to pay Bates, by all means.

Reiff just signed this year. If there was any interest in a multi-year deal they would have done it when they signed him.

(06-11-2021, 01:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cannot disagree TJ. Make or break year for Zac and Lou no question.

I wanted Wade Phillips in here after last season. No excuse being ran on like that and not being able to rush the QB even with 
backup DT's. You can to be able to adapt and make your backups at least serviceable. I do like the players brought in is all I am
saying. Reader, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Ossai, Cam Sample, Shelvin, Hubert etc.

Have Hobby or Golden take over if Lou continues to suck with these guys I agree.

Nate, funny you mention Wade Phillips.  I've wanted him as a defensive coordinator since like the late 90s/early 2000's.  

That guy literally never has a bad defense.  He reminds me a lot of Zimmer.  

If we do move on from Zac at the end of this year a guy I'd look at with heavy interest is Wink Martindale, the DC with the Ravens. 

That dude has worked his way up from nothing.  Gigs in D1AA, then some coaching in D1A, then moved onto the NFL.  

He's been all over.  I think he'd be a hell of a head football coach and be VERY successful at it. 

(06-23-2021, 10:28 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Nate, funny you mention Wade Phillips.  I've wanted him as a defensive coordinator since like the late 90s/early 2000's.  

That guy literally never has a bad defense.  He reminds me a lot of Zimmer.  

If we do move on from Zac at the end of this year a guy I'd look at with heavy interest is Wink Martindale, the DC with the Ravens. 

That dude has worked his way up from nothing.  Gigs in D1AA, then some coaching in D1A, then moved onto the NFL.  

He's been all over.  I think he'd be a hell of a head football coach and be VERY successful at it. 

Yes sir, Wink wink brother...

(06-23-2021, 10:28 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Nate, funny you mention Wade Phillips.  I've wanted him as a defensive coordinator since like the late 90s/early 2000's.  

That guy literally never has a bad defense.  He reminds me a lot of Zimmer.  

If we do move on from Zac at the end of this year a guy I'd look at with heavy interest is Wink Martindale, the DC with the Ravens. 

That dude has worked his way up from nothing.  Gigs in D1AA, then some coaching in D1A, then moved onto the NFL.  

He's been all over.  I think he'd be a hell of a head football coach and be VERY successful at it. 

The guy that hosted Tic Tac Dough??

(06-23-2021, 09:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The guy that hosted Tic Tac Dough??

I have no idea what this is Sunset? Tell me?

(06-23-2021, 09:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I have no idea what this is Sunset? Tell me?

Wink Martindale was a popular game show host from the 1970's through the late 1990's.  He is also known for being a television producer.  I'm sure the name thing is just a coincident.

(06-23-2021, 09:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wink Martindale was a popular game show host from the 1970's through the late 1990's.  He is also known for being a television producer.  I'm sure the name thing is just a coincident.

Is it though?

Let's remember that a LOT of players across the league signed one year deals last offseason because of the drop in the cap combined with their confidence the cap would skyrocket back up the next offseason.

I like keeping Reiff. Some like keeping Hubbard. From these posts, I think we all agree on keeping Bates. Bengals need Bates Motel. He is still at his drafted pay rate, but his draft contract is up. Bengals can not keep him for 1 million at rookie pay. He now deserves proven veteran pay. Bengals need to resign Bates Motel now before season starts, because Bengals Brown Family almost never talks contracts once season starts. We will lose Bates to Free Agency in March if not resigned NOW. I don't even want to hear one year franchise tag. Bengals need to come off the cheap, and resign Bates who is best young defensive player on the team. Bates Motel is very close to being Pro Bowl every year, and Bengals need him. If they don't resign Reiff or Hubbard, at least Resign Bates Motel. Pro Bowl type Safeties are rare. but most Dynasty winning teams have had one. A Pro Bowl type Safety just makes your Defense so much better, and gives opposing Quarterbacks and Offensive Coaches long, hard games.

If we let Bates go Free Agent, we will not find another top safety like him for many years. Brown, Tobin, Taylor should be trying to put their best team on field around Burrow, and that means signing Bates from a rookie contract to a veteran contract promotion that he has earned. If I have to cut some lousy Bengals to pay the good Bates, that's what you do, you do not go cheap on him. Ravens had Reed, Steelers had Troy, Bengals having Bates into future is the way to go.

Bates Motel. Players visits to The Bates Motel area are not good visits. People never leave The Bates Motel. Bates gives offensive players an early check out time.

(06-25-2021, 02:57 PM)kevin Wrote: I like keeping Reiff.  Some like keeping Hubbard. From these posts, I think we all agree on keeping Bates.  Bengals need Bates Motel. He is still at his drafted pay rate, but his draft contract is up. Bengals can not keep him for 1 million at rookie pay. He now deserves proven veteran pay.  Bengals need to resign Bates Motel now before season starts, because Bengals Brown Family almost never talks contracts once season starts. We will lose Bates to Free Agency in March if not resigned NOW. I don't even want to hear one year franchise tag.  Bengals need to come off the cheap, and resign Bates who is best young defensive player on the team. Bates Motel is very close to being Pro Bowl every year, and Bengals need him.   If they don't resign Reiff or Hubbard, at least Resign Bates Motel.  Pro Bowl type Safeties are rare. but most Dynasty winning teams have had one. A Pro Bowl type Safety just makes your Defense so much better, and gives opposing Quarterbacks and Offensive Coaches long, hard games.

If we let Bates go Free Agent, we will not find another top safety like him for many years. Brown, Tobin, Taylor should be trying to put their best team on field around Burrow, and that means signing Bates from a rookie contract to a veteran contract promotion that he has earned. If I have to cut some lousy Bengals to pay the good Bates, that's what you do, you do not go cheap on him. Ravens had Reed, Steelers had Troy, Bengals having Bates into future is the way to go.

Bates Motel.  Players visits to The Bates Motel area are not good visits. People never leave The Bates Motel. Bates gives offensive players an early check out time.

Bates may not want to re-sign here.

(06-23-2021, 09:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The guy that hosted Tic Tac Dough??

(06-23-2021, 09:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I have no idea what this is Sunset? Tell me?

If you get the Tic and the Tac, you automatically get the Dough! 

(06-23-2021, 03:29 AM)kevin Wrote: Again, Bates and Reiff should be resigned.  We need Blocking and Tackling.  Do not let them go Free Agent

Uzomah and Price should not be resigned.  They are over paid as it is. Let them go Free Agent.  I like Uzomah, but he already gets paid too much. He is far from being an elite NFL Tight End.

I have no opinion on Hubbard and Okunjobi, except that Hubbard is NOT the most important person to keep.  That would be Bates and Reiff protecting Burrow is up there.  I have no problem keeping Hubbard, but Bates is a Super Star that Bengals can not afford to lose. Bates gives us that top notch Safety like an Ed Reed or Ronnie Lott, and we need that.  There were players brought in that might beat Hubbard out of a job, the same can not be said for Bates.

Now is the time to be resigning, since Bengals stance is not to talk contracts during playing season.  The Paul Brown Family way is if Bates or Reiff are not resigned before season starts, we lose them to Free Agency after season.  Bengals need both in 2022.  

If Bates goes Free Agent, then it shows why Bengals haven't won a play-off game in 30 years, because this front office doesn't have a clue. Bates is paid 1 million now, and of course you give our best defensive player a pay raise and keep him here.

I wanted to take a look at this thread again, because now is the time for Bengals to be resigning players. Bengals almost never resign players once season starts.  They better keep Bates Motel.  Nobody escapes from The Bates Motel.  Could be best Safety the Bengals have ever had, at least one of the best. Keep Him, if you resign nobody else, Keep Bates Motel. Do not franchise tag him for a year. We need Bates longer than a year.  Bengals are paying Bates 1 Mil and you don't get a Safety like Bates for 1 Mil, so Bengals need to get off the cheap and Pay The Man.

Would I let Uzomah, Price, Okunjobi and Hubbard salaries walk to pay Bates and maybe Reiff, YES.  Let some salaries walk to pay Bates, by all means.

I believe you are very correct.

I'm sure keeping Taylor and Lou around for this season isn't helping either. Why would Bates want to commit to staying when the coaching staff has proven to be just awful?

 

Remember a LOT of players did one year "bet on yourself" deals with the cap dropping based on the knowledge that the 2022 cap would skyrocket, so they would be better positioned to cash in if they play well. So Reiff and Ogunjobi are unlikely to sign extensions and the same logic applies to Spain.

Given that we need to try to extend players who are likely to want to extend with the upcoming cap bonanza. I suspect this means Bates will need a huge deal. Hubbard should be cheaper. Reiff and Ogunjobi will not necessarily want to extend when they did one year deals to (as said above) bet on themselves unless those deals are sweetened.