(07-23-2021, 12:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's such a mainstream viewpoint now, though.  It's mainstream to think the mainstream is misleading you.  Much of the mainstream media preaches the deception of the mainstream media. 

We're in deep, folks. 

Deception...Inception!
Indeception!

This is all so odd. 2 years ago people who refused vaccines were either Amish or ultra liberals who used elemental-based veganism and healing crystals to combat disease.

Vikings just parted ways with an assistant coach who wouldn't get vaccinated.

To each their own where they get their news sources. But with this virus, I wouldn't suggest Twitter or Facebook or some of the other social media outlets of which there are a ton of. I have been following the brief updates from Dr. Scott Gottlieb on CNBC most mornings.

(07-23-2021, 02:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I didn’t write 200 mutations. I wrote 200 viruses as in different virus, not mutations of the same virus.

The flu virus doesn’t mutate causing antigenic shift 200 times annually.

It is up for debate and not proven Covid 19 was engineered.

Let’s try to keep this in the realm of reality.

Now do coronavirus in general 

(07-23-2021, 09:04 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: In theory this enforcementshould work but the reality is we are over testing and what will happen vaccinated  players will test positive and probably cause games to be cancelled anyway. They need to fix how and who they test.

Yep... There's that too.

(07-23-2021, 11:12 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: So, the real question is.. how many players will "retire" to avoid getting vaxxed.

I would guess it would be players who were not going to make a 53 man roster anywhere. 

Sports Network: "An undrafted free agent punter out of Arkansas Polytech has decided to retire rather than be vaccinated"
News: "Man bravely took a stand for his freedoms instead of millions of dollars."
Team he was going to be cut from: "Who was he, again?"

(07-23-2021, 03:00 PM)Goalpost Wrote: To each their own where they get their news sources.  But with this virus, I wouldn't suggest Twitter or Facebook or some of the other social media outlets of which there are a ton of.   I have been following the brief updates from Dr. Scott Gottlieb on CNBC most mornings.

Social media is the fuel for a feeble mind. People talk about freedom of speech and this is what happens when anyone and everyone talks. Some guy working at a bait and tackle shop gives a speech from the front seat of his Dodge Ram and a million people take it as gospel. Thousands of people who has been studying medicine for decades are dismissed.

"We don't know what the vaccine could do. How do we know it is safe?"
"B*****, how do you trust a million man killer virus that came out of the corner of China."

If I see dozens of things looking like zombies coming at me and someone passes me a gun I've never seen before, I'm not asking about it certifications, magazine capacities and manufacture warranties. I'm firing down range and hoping for the best.  

(07-23-2021, 12:46 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree 100% and this past year has made me quit watching any news at all and just observe the world through my own eyes and research. 

But must head off to work so I am out this conversation, so enjoy and be safe folks. Sorry for the rants but rarely get days off work anymore per this new world we live in and needed to vent some. Yet did finally get granted a 3 day stretch (which was badly needed) to visit family in Ohio last weekend. It was good to do so and take in a concert as well even but now I am on a 15 day straight run again, ugh.  

What research have you conducted?

This thread and the direction it has taken is a good example of why I don't hang out here much anymore. That's certainly my problem but I just thought I'd chime in. I can't wait for the season to get started.

(07-22-2021, 05:09 PM)Mer Wrote: What ever happened to freedom of choice?

It doesn't exist in regard to privately owned businesses.  If the private entity dictates vaccinations as a condition of employment, then you do it or walk.  It's the way it is.

(07-23-2021, 12:22 PM)Go Cards Wrote: I work on covid floors and Emergency room where they arrive at hospital and am well aware of how bad it is and how the numbers are padded to get that payday as well. 
My mother who has a history of heart problems went to her heart Dr with chest pains and tiredness and was told to go immediately to the ER but not to drive per a heart attack may be imminent but no covid was suspected. I  helped her in vehicle and took her to the door of hospital and then parked my vehicle. Came in about 10 minutes later and was told she had "covid symptoms" per saying she was short of breath and was listed as covid patient. Nobody was allowed to be with her because of this diagnosis even. This person will no longer look me in the eye at work and looks to the floor when passing. She ultimately had a blockage of main artery as suspected and it was cleared and stint added. Not before she was listed as a covid patient though. Money, money, money !

Do not believe these positives with no symptoms either. One person in my household of 3 was diagnosed with covid and we figured all 3 would have contracted since we were told to lockdown with her and expected it. Yet nobody contracted this while breathing same air and sharing bathroom. 

Should be noted that patients have been in isolation with deadly airborne diseases for as long as Ive worked at hospital and we've never come close to being overwhelmed and pneumonia deaths just strangely disappeared for a long time.

They do not mandate vaccines to those who treat the dying covid patients and in fact for the first two months we were denied masks per a shortage while there wasn't even a vaccine close to being available and very few people contracted this most contagious disease in world history whilst being directly exposed until they were put in isolation and then masks could be worn while entering the room. 

If it was so bad as you claim every grocery store clerk would have died long ago per the first thing everybody did was rush to the grocery store before lockdown and they were exposed to everybody during its peak when no masks or vaccines were available. Then everybody had to go back daily because of the toilet paper shortage.

It's a sad death to those who do pass from this horrid disease and know coworkers and friends who did die. But the #'s are far from being legit like you claim. As stated before I know Dr's who highly recommend and others that refuse to get it. 

Believe what you read and I will trust my eyes and experiences. 

But the NFL can definitely tell players they must or not play, its their business and players are free to walk away if not liking. I disagree but it is what it is and would expect anybody with a view like yourself to want all fans in attendance to show their vaccination card before entering too. 

Disagree with this stance though yet all are welcome to combat covid however they choose by becoming a recluse or whatever they think is best for them and their families. 

I shall choose to live my life and am still on fence about next vaccine. Will cross that bridge when it arrives per things can change quickly in between now and then. But as of now I do not see with my own eyes what is being claimed at all. Only thing that has changed is many people are being paid to stay home or are scared and quit. Only forcing the rest of us to be severely overworked during the last year and yet still few are contracting while being so stressed out and beat down from so many hours worked and around the most severe cases daily.   

P.S. NFL players are not school kids. Yet not telling anybody what they should choose to do in this matter. because as I stated I am vaccinated and still on fence about another. But never going to shame anyone who chooses not too per the masses are still walking amongst us and the amount of deaths is virtually the same as previous years before it hit.  

First of all, thanks for doing what you do.

Second, what exactly is it that you do?

(07-23-2021, 12:37 PM)Go Cards Wrote: It took 24 years for polio vaccine to rid the world of it and it took years to invent. Went through many studies and trials to prove safe unlike the current vaccine that was rushed through the red tape. 

We are the study, but I went with being a ginny pig in this matter in an effort to protect the elderly family members and friends since I will always be around covid patients daily.   

You need to do a little bit more reading about vaccine development in the 1930s vs 2020.

(07-22-2021, 05:09 PM)Mer Wrote: What ever happened to freedom of choice?

Players have a choice to not play.  They chose a profession that places them and others at high risk.  Same with those of us in healthcare.  It is still a choice.   

(07-23-2021, 01:45 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: There have been over 600K deaths in the US due to Covid and 303K occurred after the start of the vaccine rollout.  Less than 6K were among the fully vaccinated. Of the 18K Covid deaths in May 2021 only 150 were fully vaccinated. Texas has reported 9K Covid deaths since February. Only 43 were fully vaccinated. Since January in Virginia 99.4% of Covid cases were in the unvaccinated; 2,447 unvaccinated people died compared to 18 deaths in fully vaccinated people. Between January and June of this year 7,091 unvaccinated people died of Covid in Georgia compared to 14 fully vaccinated people. 99.4% of Georgians hospitalized for Covid during the same period were not fully vaccinated.

Some of you act as if you’ve never heard of mandatory school vaccines. Are kids having their rights stripped because they have to get a tetanus shot?

Great factual information, but wasted on so many that have tin foil hats and believe the government is implanting some sort of tracking device.  Those same people are also responsible (in many areas) for outbreaks of things like the measles (that we thought was gone) because they declined those vaccines for their children.  

Many won't get their kids the HPV vaccination as well.  I lost a friend that I coached as a youth to esophageal cancer traced to the HPV recently.  He was 36 years old.  

This is going to sound incredibly insensitive, but in many of these recent anti-vax movements, it is a simple case of "you can't fix stupid".  

(07-22-2021, 08:56 PM)Destro Wrote: You don't understand what forced is. There are countries that truly are forcing people. This is a league and not a government, and it's not like players will be beaten or imprisoned for not getting the shot. They are not being punished for not having the shot.

Don't get the shot and also don't get the virus and spread it to others, you will have all the other opportunities everyone else does. Nothing to worry about and you don't have the shot. You say you won't get the shot, then get covid, and it spreads enough that the team can't field players, you don't get to play and if you don't play, you don't get paid. Seems like any simple business. 

Just because someone doesn't like the accountability for their actions does not equal being forced. 

And if they were straight up saying, get the shot or don't play, I'm ok with it. The leagues choice. Make millions in the NFL and play by their rules or take that bogus liberal arts degree from your Div 1 college and be a landscaper or something. 

Seems like too many people are confusing the very word freedom with being able to do whatever you want whenever you want to whoever you want with absolutely zero consequences regardless of the outcomes. 
This is like saying you should be allowed to steal and rob people at will and not have to even worry about the consequences because..uhh..freedom? 
Hey, I should have the freedom to drive drunk at 150 miles an hour through any residential street with children playing close by and if I happen to run over 6 or 7 of them it's their faults for being nearby in the first place because of..uhh..freedom!  

It's silly, stupid and dangerous to be able to spread deadly diseases with no consequences. It's certainly not freedom. I'm to the point that I'm just about openly rooting for people who choose to not be vaccinated out of..uhh..freedom to go ahead and die from covid .. I prefer to have an uninfected gene pool. 

If the players who feel their freedom of choice is being compromised by being forced to take a vaccine protest by kneeling during the anthem the entire internet could explode.

(07-24-2021, 09:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: If the players who feel their freedom of choice is being compromised by being forced to take a vaccine protest by kneeling during the anthem the entire internet could explode.

Taking an anti vaccine knee.. Yeah..that wouldn't exactly endear them to the vast majority of people who don't wanna die from Covid.. At that point I'd be rooting for them to be kicked out of hospitals if they came down with it..  Doctors might be like ,"Here's your brown paper bag to breath in and out of..Good luck with it.. NEXT!" 

(07-24-2021, 12:40 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You need to do a little bit more reading about vaccine development in the 1930s vs 2020.

No thanks is necessary and not sure what difference it would make if I was a toilet scrubber or a neurosurgeon or anything in between, which is where my job title resides. 

They're all being exposed on a daily basis, well maybe not the surgeon as much as the rest yet still. 

Not exactly sure why you are going back to the depression days of the 30's when the vaccine you referenced was made in 1955. 

Yet still get your point. 

How do we even know this vaccine is good or will work to eradicate this disease as the one invented in 1955 ? Its still in trial phase imo. 
You are already on record in this thread stating that nearly 6,000 people fully vaccinated have died already with many more contracting it. We are still in covids infancy by comparison to polio which is disease that's really opposite of covid that oddly you brought into this debate. 

Does not appear like this 2020 vaccine will eradicate this disease though as the 1955 vaccine did by your own admission and stats provided.   America is polio free these days and large portion of the world is still trembling in fear of covid are they not ?  

Oddly after this thread started a good friend from the Philippines strangely asked my opinion on the vaccine just last night. Guess God has a good sense of humor. 

Her name and her family has come up on the list to receive the Johnson and Johnson vaccine Monday and she is scared having not really seeing the disease touch her area of the Philippines. 

Torn between what to suggest since I was injected with the Pfizer on the first round of vaccines released and J&J track record is somewhat sketchy. Will bounce it off the Drs at work who are pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine and weigh it out before suggesting. Yet she is in full panic mode about receiving vaccine.
 

(07-23-2021, 07:52 PM)AussieBengal Wrote: What research have you conducted?

I study porography studiously and diligently 23 hours a day, then debate with football fans the other hour. 

Works for me and have formulated my entire life opinions from these studies.