(07-24-2021, 08:59 AM)grampahol Wrote: Seems like too many people are confusing the very word freedom with being able to do whatever you want whenever you want to whoever you want with absolutely zero consequences regardless of the outcomes. 
This is like saying you should be allowed to steal and rob people at will and not have to even worry about the consequences because..uhh..freedom? 
Hey, I should have the freedom to drive drunk at 150 miles an hour through any residential street with children playing close by and if I happen to run over 6 or 7 of them it's their faults for being nearby in the first place because of..uhh..freedom!  

It's silly, stupid and dangerous to be able to spread deadly diseases with no consequences. It's certainly not freedom. I'm to the point that I'm just about openly rooting for people who choose to not be vaccinated out of..uhh..freedom to go ahead and die from covid .. I prefer to have an uninfected gene pool. 

I get your anger and we could chalk it up to Darwin thinning the herd; unfortunately they put folks other than themselves at risk

(07-24-2021, 01:48 PM)Go Cards Wrote: No thanks is necessary and not sure what difference it would make if I was a toilet scrubber or a neurosurgeon or anything in between, which is where my job title resides. 

They're all being exposed on a daily basis, well maybe not the surgeon as much as the rest yet still. 

Not exactly sure why you are going back to the depression days of the 30's when the vaccine you referenced was made in 1955. 

Yet still get your point. 

How do we even know this vaccine is good or will work to eradicate this disease as the one invented in 1955 ? Its still in trial phase imo. 
You are already on record in this thread stating that nearly 6,000 people fully vaccinated have died already with many more contracting it. We are still in covids infancy by comparison to polio which is disease that's really opposite of covid that oddly you brought into this debate. 

Does not appear like this 2020 vaccine will eradicate this disease though as the 1955 vaccine did by your own admission and stats provided.   America is polio free these days and large portion of the world is still trembling in fear of covid are they not ?  

Oddly after this thread started a good friend from the Philippines strangely asked my opinion on the vaccine just last night. Guess God has a good sense of humor. 

Her name and her family has come up on the list to receive the Johnson and Johnson vaccine Monday and she is scared having not really seeing the disease touch her area of the Philippines. 

Torn between what to suggest since I was injected with the Pfizer on the first round of vaccines released and J&J track record is somewhat sketchy. Will bounce it off the Drs at work who are pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine and weigh it out before suggesting. Yet she is in full panic mode about receiving vaccine.
 

I’m a PA-C. So I sympathize with you how hard this past year has been although I can’t fully know what you’ve gone through. You’re correct what you do doesn’t matter other than help me understand your level of clinical expertise. Regardless, I very respectfully disagree with some of your statements. It’s okay to disagree. My only goal is to provide the most accurate information I can without emotion or opinion so others can make informed decisions.

PS I have more information on the three vaccines you could pass along to your friend. If you’re interested PM me.

PSS I put the info in the Klotch Covid thread if you want it.

(07-24-2021, 02:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get your anger and we could chalk it up to Darwin thinning the herd; unfortunately they put folks other than themselves at risk

We're all in this together...god help us.

(07-24-2021, 08:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Great factual information, but wasted on so many that have tin foil hats and believe the government is implanting some sort of tracking device.  Those same people are also responsible (in many areas) for outbreaks of things like the measles (that we thought was gone) because they declined those vaccines for their children.  

Many won't get their kids the HPV vaccination as well.  I lost a friend that I coached as a youth to esophageal cancer traced to the HPV recently.  He was 36 years old.  

This is going to sound incredibly insensitive, but in many of these recent anti-vax movements, it is a simple case of "you can't fix stupid".  

I'm surrounded by tin foil hat wearers at work

I stopped and got my first shot today after the gym. I didn't really have any plans to do so, which had nothing to do with conspiracy or political reasons. I just got tired of the raised eyebrow thrown my way from the wife whenever the subject would come up on the news and it's not really that big of a deal, to me, one way or another. 

(07-24-2021, 01:48 PM)Go Cards Wrote: No thanks is necessary and not sure what difference it would make if I was a toilet scrubber or a neurosurgeon or anything in between, which is where my job title resides. 

They're all being exposed on a daily basis, well maybe not the surgeon as much as the rest yet still. 

Not exactly sure why you are going back to the depression days of the 30's when the vaccine you referenced was made in 1955. 

Yet still get your point. 

How do we even know this vaccine is good or will work to eradicate this disease as the one invented in 1955 ? Its still in trial phase imo. 
You are already on record in this thread stating that nearly 6,000 people fully vaccinated have died already with many more contracting it. We are still in covids infancy by comparison to polio which is disease that's really opposite of covid that oddly you brought into this debate. 

Does not appear like this 2020 vaccine will eradicate this disease though as the 1955 vaccine did by your own admission and stats provided.   America is polio free these days and large portion of the world is still trembling in fear of covid are they not ?  

Oddly after this thread started a good friend from the Philippines strangely asked my opinion on the vaccine just last night. Guess God has a good sense of humor. 

Her name and her family has come up on the list to receive the Johnson and Johnson vaccine Monday and she is scared having not really seeing the disease touch her area of the Philippines. 

Torn between what to suggest since I was injected with the Pfizer on the first round of vaccines released and J&J track record is somewhat sketchy. Will bounce it off the Drs at work who are pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine and weigh it out before suggesting. Yet she is in full panic mode about receiving vaccine.
 

To be honest there should only be one answer to that question and it is have a discussion with your doctor so you can make an informed choice.

(07-24-2021, 03:06 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I’m a PA-C. So I sympathize with you how hard this past year has been although I can’t fully know what you’ve gone through. You’re correct what you do doesn’t matter other than help me understand your level of clinical expertise. Regardless, I very respectfully disagree with some of your statements. It’s okay to disagree. My only goal is to provide the most accurate information I can without emotion or opinion so others can make informed decisions.

PS I have more information on the three vaccines you could pass along to your friend. If you’re interested PM me.

PSS I put the info in the Klotch Covid thread if you want it.

Have no problem with anyone disagreeing and welcome that always. Maybe you are hands on with many covid patients or not. Not sure if you work in hospital or office. I work in the Emergency Room where they arrive on on 6th floor where they end up going if admitted. My current girl who is nurse practitioner works throughout building yet usually not directly with the patients but obviously she rides the same elevators and walk the same halls they are transported too. every girl Ive dated has been a nurse or aide since covid began per the best part of working in hospital is its 80% women, yet that's also the worst part at times.

My goal is to provide accurate information as well. We definitely had to work with many covid patients without masks in first few months of disease until they were deemed isolation patients and then and only then a N95 could be worn when entering the room only and had to have the House Managers permission to even get then and were only handed out one at a time.  Things have changed now that more masks are available but it does not change this fact. One nurse (God rest her soul) passed since it has started from covid out of several thousands employees, she was only in her early 40's and sweet as can be, but most have never contracted it at all. 
Our Hospital has a 6 story, 8 story, and 4 story buildings with 499 patient rooms which make up the hospital with 6 Dr buildings all at least 6 stories attached with pedways and we have never had to dedicate more than two floors in the 6 story building to accommodate covid patients and only one floor for past 8 months. 
Also have a lung mass and hemochromatosis and probably will not be fair well for me to contracted, but still calling as I see it. Lunch ended 5 minutes ago so must get back to work and have plenty of literature on hand about vaccines but thank you for the offer. 

P.S. Will add that nobody that I personally know who refused vaccine at hospital has even caught covid.

Obviously I do not know every single employee but am well liked and know a bunch.

Maybe this is just dumb luck, but promise you covid has been on the premisis since day one at this hospital and still is presently.

I work in Louisville to help out anyone wanting to know.

Best wishes to all in whatever the plan you choose to keep your family safe is, but I do not believe in forcing this until more is known.

Probably in big trouble now and got to go.

(07-24-2021, 01:51 PM)Go Cards Wrote: I study porography studiously and diligently 23 hours a day, then debate with football fans the other hour. 

Works for me and have formulated my entire life opinions from these studies. 

I did not read that right at first

(07-24-2021, 01:51 PM)Go Cards Wrote: I study porography studiously and diligently 23 hours a day, then debate with football fans the other hour. 

Works for me and have formulated my entire life opinions from these studies. 

This explains why some of the pages on this board stick together. Think I’m gonna go wash my hands.

(07-23-2021, 02:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That is the data from the trials when there wasn’t a delta variant. But, according to this article in JAMA, the vaccines produce better immunity to the delta variant than prior infection.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139

No vaccination is 100% effective, but they are the best tool we have at preventing infection.


When you have your own professional sports league, I hope you remember you don’t think you can make your own rules.


There are always personal injury lawyers looking for an out of court settlement. But, show me how many vaccines have been recalled from the US market and why?

You could be right, although I think social distancing and washing your hands, not touching face, etc, are far more effective than vaccines and masks both and have been the entire time.  

The thing is though, we are still dealing with a virus that has a higher survival rate than the vaccine effectiveness rate, and no one knows what long term side effects these vaccines could have, which could end up pretty bad in all honesty. And as of now, in the UK, the delta strain makes up almost all of the new covid cases, although hospitalization rates are down to almost nothing. Its too early to know for sure, but it looks like delta is just a typical flu mutation, evolving to ensure its own survival. Its going to mutate because it wants to live and to do that it cant kill off its host. It seems like right now that the new variant is more transmittable, but less severe, which makes sense following the basic principals of evolution. The vaccines look like nothing more than another flu shot that people will be pushed to take yearly at least. 

But we are still dealing with a virus that has a higher survival rate than the vaccine effectiveness rate, and until that changes, there will be a lot of people who dont want the jab, and its their right to feel that way. They could lose their jobs, etc, but its a sad fact that it has gone this far. If people are scared of the virus, get the shot, if you're not, dont get the shot. Seems simple. If you are sick, call off work and stay home until you're not, just like we've been doing for most of human history. 

These kind of rules and punishments will backfire in the long run, imo. 

(07-23-2021, 12:22 PM)Go Cards Wrote: I work on covid floors and Emergency room where they arrive at hospital and am well aware of how bad it is and how the numbers are padded to get that payday as well. 
My mother who has a history of heart problems went to her heart Dr with chest pains and tiredness and was told to go immediately to the ER but not to drive per a heart attack may be imminent but no covid was suspected. I  helped her in vehicle and took her to the door of hospital and then parked my vehicle. Came in about 10 minutes later and was told she had "covid symptoms" per saying she was short of breath and was listed as covid patient. Nobody was allowed to be with her because of this diagnosis even. This person will no longer look me in the eye at work and looks to the floor when passing. She ultimately had a blockage of main artery as suspected and it was cleared and stint added. Not before she was listed as a covid patient though. Money, money, money !

Do not believe these positives with no symptoms either. One person in my household of 3 was diagnosed with covid and we figured all 3 would have contracted since we were told to lockdown with her and expected it. Yet nobody contracted this while breathing same air and sharing bathroom. 

Should be noted that patients have been in isolation with deadly airborne diseases for as long as Ive worked at hospital and we've never come close to being overwhelmed and pneumonia deaths just strangely disappeared for a long time.

They do not mandate vaccines to those who treat the dying covid patients and in fact for the first two months we were denied masks per a shortage while there wasn't even a vaccine close to being available and very few people contracted this most contagious disease in world history whilst being directly exposed until they were put in isolation and then masks could be worn while entering the room. 

If it was so bad as you claim every grocery store clerk would have died long ago per the first thing everybody did was rush to the grocery store before lockdown and they were exposed to everybody during its peak when no masks or vaccines were available. Then everybody had to go back daily because of the toilet paper shortage.

It's a sad death to those who do pass from this horrid disease and know coworkers and friends who did die. But the #'s are far from being legit like you claim. As stated before I know Dr's who highly recommend and others that refuse to get it. 

Believe what you read and I will trust my eyes and experiences. 

But the NFL can definitely tell players they must or not play, its their business and players are free to walk away if not liking. I disagree but it is what it is and would expect anybody with a view like yourself to want all fans in attendance to show their vaccination card before entering too. 

Disagree with this stance though yet all are welcome to combat covid however they choose by becoming a recluse or whatever they think is best for them and their families. 

I shall choose to live my life and am still on fence about next vaccine. Will cross that bridge when it arrives per things can change quickly in between now and then. But as of now I do not see with my own eyes what is being claimed at all. Only thing that has changed is many people are being paid to stay home or are scared and quit. Only forcing the rest of us to be severely overworked during the last year and yet still few are contracting while being so stressed out and beat down from so many hours worked and around the most severe cases daily.   

P.S. NFL players are not school kids. Yet not telling anybody what they should choose to do in this matter. because as I stated I am vaccinated and still on fence about another. But never going to shame anyone who chooses not too per the masses are still walking amongst us and the amount of deaths is virtually the same as previous years before it hit.  

This is a great post.  Brother, I feel for you.  The past 30 months have been a virtual shit show about facts and misinformation.  We used to have honest, unbiased, REPORTING (not the political activists of today, but honest reporting) of information that was important to society.

What is a citizen to do?  They are surrounded by news sources, social media, and their own physicians and families all shouting different things.  Mission accomplished, social engineers, we are clearly divided.

Two points I wish to respond to about your post:

The first, is the point about hospitals stating "covid-like symptoms" and calling it covid for billing purposes.  100% accurate.  Why did they do that?  It wasn't just money and greed, though that is the root of it, but it had to do with their loss of their greatest source of income:  elective surgeries.  Hip and knee replacements pay everyone in the hospital very well.  I have no problem with that as it helped to balance out the poor reimbursement on things such as a COPD stay.  It wasn't meant to offset the loss of those surgeries, but that is exactly what the inflated covid reimbursement became.  And therefore(to your last point), you got vastly inflated numbers of covid cases, and fatalities.  Don't believe me?  Look at the number of deaths attributed to the flu.  It was barely a number.  Some tin foil hat moron said "See!  Masks work!  It almost eliminated the flu!"  Good grief.

The consequences of those inflated numbers was the fear-mongering that lead to massive shutdowns and economic crippling. And the worst is yet to come.  On a recent flight (my first since covid), there were virtually no restaurants open in the Philly and Boston airports.  Charlotte?  Booming.  Why the difference?  State leadership, I suppose, and I was told they couldn't get anyone to work those jobs.  If we think everyone taking handouts that are perfectly capable of working won't come back to bite this country in the ass, just wait.  

That all being said, the bottom line is covid is real, and is a serious threat to anyone that is elderly or immune compromised.  The nation had a huge dilemma:  Do they shut down to protect a specific group that likely is retire?  Right or wrong, they shut down to help protect those at most risk.  There is a flu shot, and it helps protect the elderly who are most at risk of death from the flu because they can't handle the stress on their bodies.  There is a pneumonia vax.  There is a shingles vax.  These are designed to protect people.   The fact that the covid vaccine is based on something called messenger RNA technology instead of a piece of the virus only makes it safer and more effective.  This technology has been around for about a decade or more and the scientist that developed it won the Nobel Prize for medicine.  It is being used for a number of rare diseases and represents a huge step in medicine.  There is a covid vaccine based on this technology and is accessible to everyone.  I look at it as maybe everyone doesn't need to get it but all those at risk absolutely should.  I got it because of my job and the fact that I take care of my folks.  

I don't consider myself one of those at risk, but if my getting the vaccine helps to open our country back up, I am glad to do my part.  

(07-24-2021, 07:31 PM)AussieBengal Wrote: To be honest there should only be one answer to that question and it is have a discussion with your doctor so you can make an informed choice.

Guessing she does not trust what's going on there and wants to hear what American Drs say and she trust me enough to have me inquire for them.  When covid started there was a early curfew and they were beat with rubber hoses if caught on the street and told they were too poor to be treated if contracted. Its a little different than herald sadly they probably can not afford to go to a Dr just to ask this question. 

Told her that the vaccine I received caused me or my family no harm in short term but that she must follow her own heart and ultimately make the decision for her and her family per knowing Drs with opposite opinions on this subject. 

Will say that they seem much more at peace and happier in their simple lives and am very envious. The church her and her husband runs looks incredibly fun and full of love, although spirituality is not how we know each other.   

(07-25-2021, 09:05 AM)bengaloo Wrote: You could be right, although I think social distancing and washing your hands, not touching face, etc, are far more effective than vaccines and masks both and have been the entire time.  

We're almost always going to tell patients to wash their hands to prevent spread of disease because it is part of basic hygiene, but surface transmission of Covid is approximately 0.01%. So washing your hands isn't even close to being more effective than the vaccines or wearing masks to reduce respiratory droplets. Social distancing is important so you avoid respiratory droplets from others (especially those not wearing a mask to keep their respiratory droplets to themselves), but more effective than the vaccine? Doubtful. People at the grocery store won't stay 6 feet away from me.

Quote:The thing is though, we are still dealing with a virus that has a higher survival rate than the vaccine effectiveness rate,

Covid was the 3rd leading cause of death in the US during 2020. With the vaccine, they are mostly preventable deaths.

Quote:and no one knows what long term side effects these vaccines could have, which could end up pretty bad in all honesty.

It is true no one knows the potential long term adverse effects, because this specific vaccine has been available for less than a year.  However, the vaccine technology used to make this specific vaccine has been around for decades and is safe and effective without long term adverse effects.  So while we can't say the risk is 0%, experts and professional medical organizations still recommend the vaccine because the benefits outweigh the risk which are considered very low (low enough for them to recommend the vaccine unless you have a contraindication.)

With that said, give me a list of vaccines with long term side effects.

Quote:And as of now, in the UK, the delta strain makes up almost all of the new covid cases, although hospitalization rates are down to almost nothing. Its too early to know for sure, but it looks like delta is just a typical flu mutation, evolving to ensure its own survival. Its going to mutate because it wants to live and to do that it cant kill off its host. It seems like right now that the new variant is more transmittable, but less severe, which makes sense following the basic principals of evolution. The vaccines look like nothing more than another flu shot that people will be pushed to take yearly at least. 

To claim the delta variant is less severe is premature.  If you have information indicating otherwise which I'm unaware of I would love to read it to educate myself.

Covid is most contagious before most people show symptoms therefore variants can still be more deadly so all your supposition about evolution is wrong.

Viruses need a host in order to mutate.  If they don't have a host, they can't mutate.  Vaccinations reduce the number of potential hosts which reduces the chance of mutations which could render the virus more deadly.  If people would get vaccinated we could worry less about new strains.

Quote:But we are still dealing with a virus that has a higher survival rate than the vaccine effectiveness rate, and until that changes, there will be a lot of people who dont want the jab, and its their right to feel that way.

We give Tdap vaccinations to adults, not because they are at risk of dying from whooping cough, but to protect infants whom we can't vaccinate with Tdap who could die from whooping cough.

I didn't get the vaccine for myself.  I got the vaccine for other people.  I see Covid patients almost every day.  I have a duty to protect my patient by not getting Covid and giving it to others who may be at high risk for severe Covid. I want to protect my family so I don't bring Covid home from work and give it to them.  I want to protect my friends, neighbors, and strangers who I come in contact with every day.  I want to "get back to normal" to protect people's jobs and businesses. So if you don't want the vaccine for yourself or others, do it for the American economy.

Quote:They could lose their jobs, etc, but its a sad fact that it has gone this far. If people are scared of the virus, get the shot, if you're not, dont get the shot. Seems simple. If you are sick, call off work and stay home until you're not, just like we've been doing for most of human history. 

These kind of rules and punishments will backfire in the long run, imo. 

It's not about being scared of the virus.  It's about taking the proper precautions to protect others when they can't (or won't) protect themselves such as others who are immunocompromised or at high risk for severe Covid.

It's not about fear.  Although you're doing a pretty good job at fear mongering and instilling doubt in others about the Covid vaccines (against medical advice, btw) which I'm trying to quell. It's about taking care of others.  It's about being your brother's keeper.

(07-25-2021, 10:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is a great post.  Brother, I feel for you.  The past 30 months have been a virtual shit show about facts and misinformation.  We used to have honest, unbiased, REPORTING (not the political activists of today, but honest reporting) of information that was important to society.

What is a citizen to do?  They are surrounded by news sources, social media, and their own physicians and families all shouting different things.  Mission accomplished, social engineers, we are clearly divided.

Two points I wish to respond to about your post:

The first, is the point about hospitals stating "covid-like symptoms" and calling it covid for billing purposes.  100% accurate.  Why did they do that?  It wasn't just money and greed, though that is the root of it, but it had to do with their loss of their greatest source of income:  elective surgeries.  Hip and knee replacements pay everyone in the hospital very well.  I have no problem with that as it helped to balance out the poor reimbursement on things such as a COPD stay.  It wasn't meant to offset the loss of those surgeries, but that is exactly what the inflated covid reimbursement became.  And therefore(to your last point), you got vastly inflated numbers of covid cases, and fatalities.  Don't believe me?  Look at the number of deaths attributed to the flu.  It was barely a number.  Some tin foil hat moron said "See!  Masks work!  It almost eliminated the flu!"  Good grief.

The consequences of those inflated numbers was the fear-mongering that lead to massive shutdowns and economic crippling. And the worst is yet to come.  On a recent flight (my first since covid), there were virtually no restaurants open in the Philly and Boston airports.  Charlotte?  Booming.  Why the difference?  State leadership, I suppose, and I was told they couldn't get anyone to work those jobs.  If we think everyone taking handouts that are perfectly capable of working won't come back to bite this country in the ass, just wait.  

That all being said, the bottom line is covid is real, and is a serious threat to anyone that is elderly or immune compromised.  The nation had a huge dilemma:  Do they shut down to protect a specific group that likely is retire?  Right or wrong, they shut down to help protect those at most risk.  There is a flu shot, and it helps protect the elderly who are most at risk of death from the flu because they can't handle the stress on their bodies.  There is a pneumonia vax.  There is a shingles vax.  These are designed to protect people.   The fact that the covid vaccine is based on something called messenger RNA technology instead of a piece of the virus only makes it safer and more effective.  This technology has been around for about a decade or more and the scientist that developed it won the Nobel Prize for medicine.  It is being used for a number of rare diseases and represents a huge step in medicine.  There is a covid vaccine based on this technology and is accessible to everyone.  I look at it as maybe everyone doesn't need to get it but all those at risk absolutely should.  I got it because of my job and the fact that I take care of my folks.  

I don't consider myself one of those at risk, but if my getting the vaccine helps to open our country back up, I am glad to do my part.  

Hospitals get paid for services rendered.  Not deaths.

(07-25-2021, 10:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is a great post.  Brother, I feel for you.  The past 30 months have been a virtual shit show about facts and misinformation.  We used to have honest, unbiased, REPORTING (not the political activists of today, but honest reporting) of information that was important to society.

What is a citizen to do?  They are surrounded by news sources, social media, and their own physicians and families all shouting different things.  Mission accomplished, social engineers, we are clearly divided.

Two points I wish to respond to about your post:

The first, is the point about hospitals stating "covid-like symptoms" and calling it covid for billing purposes.  100% accurate.  Why did they do that?  It wasn't just money and greed, though that is the root of it, but it had to do with their loss of their greatest source of income:  elective surgeries.  Hip and knee replacements pay everyone in the hospital very well.  I have no problem with that as it helped to balance out the poor reimbursement on things such as a COPD stay.  It wasn't meant to offset the loss of those surgeries, but that is exactly what the inflated covid reimbursement became.  And therefore(to your last point), you got vastly inflated numbers of covid cases, and fatalities.  Don't believe me?  Look at the number of deaths attributed to the flu.  It was barely a number.  Some tin foil hat moron said "See!  Masks work!  It almost eliminated the flu!"  Good grief.

The consequences of those inflated numbers was the fear-mongering that lead to massive shutdowns and economic crippling. And the worst is yet to come.  On a recent flight (my first since covid), there were virtually no restaurants open in the Philly and Boston airports.  Charlotte?  Booming.  Why the difference?  State leadership, I suppose, and I was told they couldn't get anyone to work those jobs.  If we think everyone taking handouts that are perfectly capable of working won't come back to bite this country in the ass, just wait.  

That all being said, the bottom line is covid is real, and is a serious threat to anyone that is elderly or immune compromised.  The nation had a huge dilemma:  Do they shut down to protect a specific group that likely is retire?  Right or wrong, they shut down to help protect those at most risk.  There is a flu shot, and it helps protect the elderly who are most at risk of death from the flu because they can't handle the stress on their bodies.  There is a pneumonia vax.  There is a shingles vax.  These are designed to protect people.   The fact that the covid vaccine is based on something called messenger RNA technology instead of a piece of the virus only makes it safer and more effective.  This technology has been around for about a decade or more and the scientist that developed it won the Nobel Prize for medicine.  It is being used for a number of rare diseases and represents a huge step in medicine.  There is a covid vaccine based on this technology and is accessible to everyone.  I look at it as maybe everyone doesn't need to get it but all those at risk absolutely should.  I got it because of my job and the fact that I take care of my folks.  

I don't consider myself one of those at risk, but if my getting the vaccine helps to open our country back up, I am glad to do my part.  

Agree and it is real just not the #'s that are being tossed around. 

This will be my last post on this but will give a perspective of how its been through my eyes. 

When it started it was taken super serious at hospital and still is as far as patient care. Yet other things have changed throughout this time. 
Like I stated before there was a mask shortage and hospital employees were banned from wearing any kind of mask until patient was diagnosed and put in isolation room. By then they'd already set in waiting rooms, transported through halls and ridden elevators. Then if a House Manager deemed that you were going into the said patients room and at high risk you were given one mask and a paper sack to put it in when leaving the room and reused throughout the 12 hour shift. This also included that  NO MASKS were to be brought from home and worn for some odd reason. There was a major shortage of masks until China sent some reinforcements a couple months into this plague. Need to stop depending on foreign countries so much imo. 

We all just accepted the fact that we would all get this most contagious disease in world history. For once any employee contracted it would spread through the employees like wildfire without masks being worn and our close proximity while working and riding elevators together.. We removed our shoes and clothes before entering houses and jumped immediately into shower as to not infect families. The women made these sort of thick Aunt Jemima style bonnets to cover their hair per not washing daily and we all used sanitizer like crazy and gargled with peroxide frequently. Yet its still transmitted airborne and were certain we would catch eventually. People heard the reports and were scared and stressed out and many quit per having underlying conditions or pressure from family. One of my colleagues was told she would never see her grandchildren again if not quitting and of course she did quit. Then they added money to unemployment causing nobody to fill positions lost. No Drs that I know of left but quite a few nurses left or retired and obviously they can't be replaced with just anybody off the street. Yet also lost a ton of non skilled positions that nobody filled the shoes of either causing every department to be short handed throughout and still is today.. Before this happened there was no overtime allowed now they pass it out like cheap Halloween candy and pressure you to take it. Obviously We are not like regular businesses and must run around the clock.  

Anyway after awhile strangely hardly anybody contracted even though being around patients who definitely had it, and it is real and very sad to see in its advanced stages albeit its not alone in this per many diseases are horrendous when in advanced stage. 

Death is no stranger to big hospitals and we have an entire floor of our tower dedicated to palliative care. The employees know it as the dying floor and nurses bag and tag daily here. But no covid patients are ever taken here. We have a morgue as sure all hospitals do and is rare to walk by without a funeral director standing outside to pick up body. Its not uncommon at all to pass dead patients being transported through hospital on a double gurney where the patient is in the middle and the drape just makes it appear as a flat table atop. There are between 4 and 15 code blues a day here and these Drs are bad ass at reviving you to offer another chance at life and do it often and skillfully. Yet sadly most only make long enough to get into critical care unit for a few days longer, but some do get better which makes effort worth it.

When this started the song Here Comes the Sun was played every time a covid patient was released. It played so often that that they quit playing it after a few months per it was gumming up other announcements. The point is am NOT seeing any increase in deaths or gurneys rolling around since this began. Even the Military set up tents outside of our ER to help with overflow but was never once used and handled by the short staff internally and they disappeared long ago. . 

We have 499 patient rooms with two massive surgery areas, 6 CT scanners that are in constant use around the clock, an endoscopy room that does 100 scopes a day on full schedule and everything else a major hospital in a city requires. Our hospital is made up of 10 buildings with Dr and cancer center included but 3 building that make up the patient rooms consisting of 18 floors total. The point is its a small city by itself. 

Presently 6 of our rooms are filled with covid patients and one in ICU for a total of 7 covid patients and we are at full capacity presently per it being deemed safe to comeback to hospital presently and every department is up and running. 
Its just not what is being claimed and many are put down as covid deaths and patients to get the government money imo. They're presently putting tens of millions of dollars into our hospital since this began and people in shipping and receiving claim they can hardly keep up with all the things being bought all of a sudden and the hallways are being used as warehouse overflow now. 

Will end again by saying that it is a real disease and nobody wants to be in the room for longer than necessary with advanced patients and do there job quickly and leave per it being so heartbreaking to watch them if on ventilator and all alone. But no longer to hospital employees that I know take all the precautions previously mentioned and never where masks outside of hospital or even when coming in. We all just get the one at the door when entering and remove as soon as possible only to put on where required. Because for instance I received my first vaccination on 1-4-21 and second on 1-26-21 yet had been exposed almost daily to covid for 10 months since February of 2020 as did all my colleagues with very minimal spread.  

 Take precautions but live your life folks, nobody gets out alive anyway. I now carry sanitizer in pocket and use if touching something that many others have touched, door knobs, teller machine screens and so forth and obviously avoid those hacking and coughing or clearly being sick if at all possible.  If not having sanitizer I use one hand as dirty hand and other to touch face with until I can wash hands again. But have eaten out most all my meals since this began and have already been to multiple concerts with many more on agenda. Plus date those who are working around these patients as well. Everyone must make their own decision on how to combat this and maybe you know people with horror stories different than mine. Ive had 3 funerals to attend since this began but sadly all had underlying conditions that were going to take them down regardless. Yet have usually had to attend 5-10 a year before this started. 
Maybe the deaths of your family and friends has risen and my condolences if so, yet I believe #'s are inflated and do not buy that one can have the most horrendous disease known to mankind without having a single symptom. But Im not a Dr or scientist just somebody who has been around it since day one.
Once vaccine is proven effective I can understand a mandate but completely understand those that are skeptical as well. especially since the bar is constantly being moved. 
Will not being coming back to this thread per this being an escape from this stuff like this and a place to talk about my beloved Bengals in lieu of work. 
Stay safe folks

(07-25-2021, 12:14 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hospitals get paid for services rendered.  Not deaths.

Fact, but get extra money when rendering services to covid patients. 

Its the people paying extra money that make big deal out of the deaths as to apparently to spread fear for some strange reason, imo. 

Am through with this and feel free to say whatever you want about my opinions per you being a legend already and how could my layman opinions possibly even begin to sway anyone anyhow.  The thread is yours to say as you will without anymore input from me which only become minor speed bumps for you to so easily navigate anyway.  Yielding to your superior intellect and hands on experience and pray that you stay safe while working with the sick brother. 

By the way have you contracted covid  ? Or maybe a high percentage the physicians and nurses you work with per not being vaccinated and obviously being in such a close proximity with sick in the long months before vaccination ?

 Never mind got to go to work now anyway and will not check anything in this thread from this point forward. Would rather talk football until season gets cancelled. Which hopefully does not happen, but from the sounds of popular opinion it probably should be for everybody's safety.  Am cool with anything that saves lives even if I think its extreme. But have been wrong before so am fine erring on the side of caution for the masses. Just so glad I dropped my season tickets this year, which was very hard being on the front row right behind the Bengals bench for 3 decades. Yet the time was right and its clearly becoming something other than the escape from daily routine that I so looked forward to every home game at PBS.   

Rock on and I respect your posts even if we slightly disagree on this subject. 
Stay safe and Who-Dey !

(07-24-2021, 08:59 AM)grampahol Wrote: Seems like too many people are confusing the very word freedom with being able to do whatever you want whenever you want to whoever you want with absolutely zero consequences regardless of the outcomes. 
This is like saying you should be allowed to steal and rob people at will and not have to even worry about the consequences because..uhh..freedom? 
Hey, I should have the freedom to drive drunk at 150 miles an hour through any residential street with children playing close by and if I happen to run over 6 or 7 of them it's their faults for being nearby in the first place because of..uhh..freedom!  

It's silly, stupid and dangerous to be able to spread deadly diseases with no consequences. It's certainly not freedom. I'm to the point that I'm just about openly rooting for people who choose to not be vaccinated out of..uhh..freedom to go ahead and die from covid .. I prefer to have an uninfected gene pool. 

Damn, that's some true hate in the heart there. Makes me wanna go right out and get the vaccine. 

I received the Pfizer Vaccine and had a mildly severe reaction. Fever, Nausea, Headache... it felt like my bones were melting in my body. Of course I know alot of other people that received it and didnt have reactions at all.

Even knowing I would have a poor reaction I would have still been vaccinated because I travel for work all over the tri-state area and enter people homes. I do not wish to spread an illness that could hurt others and wouldnt want anyone spreading it to hurt my family.

(07-25-2021, 01:36 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Fact, but get extra money when rendering services to covid patients. 

Its the people paying extra money that make big deal out of the deaths as to apparently to spread fear for some strange reason, imo. 

Am through with this and feel free to say whatever you want about my opinions per you being a legend already and how could my layman opinions possibly even begin to sway anyone anyhow.  The thread is yours to say as you will without anymore input from me which only become minor speed bumps for you to so easily navigate anyway.  Yielding to your superior intellect and hands on experience and pray that you stay safe while working with the sick brother. 

By the way have you contracted covid  ? Or maybe a high percentage the physicians and nurses you work with per not being vaccinated and obviously being in such a close proximity with sick in the long months before vaccination ?

 Never mind got to go to work now anyway and will not check anything in this thread from this point forward. Would rather talk football until season gets cancelled. Which hopefully does not happen, but from the sounds of popular opinion it probably should be for everybody's safety.  Am cool with anything that saves lives even if I think its extreme. But have been wrong before so am fine erring on the side of caution for the masses. Just so glad I dropped my season tickets this year, which was very hard being on the front row right behind the Bengals bench for 3 decades. Yet the time was right and its clearly becoming something other than the escape from daily routine that I so looked forward to every home game at PBS.   

Rock on and I respect your posts even if we slightly disagree on this subject. 
Stay safe and Who-Dey !

That was never my intent.  I respect your opinion and especially what you do for others which is why I thanked you for what you do (because I suspect no one else has.) That was sincere.  Nor have I tried to belittle your opinion. If it came across that why I apologize.

No, I haven't gotten Covid, but we've been in full PPE to include N95 masks which we had to use for up to a month due to shortages. And we were given involuntary pay cuts to help reduce the loss of revenue. Again, hospitals get paid for services, not Covid deaths.  You're correct they do get paid more for services to Covid patients. It is illegal and immoral for a doctor to diagnosis someone with a condition the patient does not have. It is insurance fraud and a criminal offense, in addition to jail the provider can lose their career, and the hospital can incur treble damages, not to mention the government intrusion and further loss of revenue from being barred from seeing Medicare and Medicaid patients. If you were a doctor would you risk your entire career and future earnings so your hospital would receive more reimbursement?

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/doj-announces-coordinated-law-enforcement-action-combat-health-care-fraud-related-covid-19

If Covid insurance fraud was occuring on a national level to the extent some claim (without evidence) there would be a lot more of these cases being prosecuted because medical fraud is a BFD to the government.

Medicare Fraud & Abuse: Prevent, Detect, Report (cms.gov)  page 20 for contact info

Whistleblower Rewards Attorneys | Employment Law Group

Also, whistleblowers who report suspected medical fraud can receive rewards of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. So if you have knowledge of fraud, report it.

I don't consider a vaccine extreme.  When I was in the military getting a vaccination was way down on the list of things that could harm me.  Same is true now as a civilian medical provider.

(07-25-2021, 02:06 PM)Synric Wrote: I received the Pfizer Vaccine and had a mildly severe reaction. Fever, Nausea, Headache... it felt like my bones were melting in my body. Of course I know alot of other people that received it and didnt have reactions at all.

Even knowing I would have a poor reaction I would have still been vaccinated because I travel for work all over the tri-state area and enter people homes. I do not wish to spread an illness that could hurt others and wouldnt want anyone spreading it to hurt my family.

I had no symptoms from 2 pfizer shots and neither did either of my parents.

Me and my mom have worked through the entire thing and never caught it either. I only did my vaccine like a month ago since the job was going to get rid of mask restrictions for vaccinated workers.