(11-05-2015, 02:42 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: My biggest fear is that Dalton turns into Flacco. He has a monster year this season, brings home a Lombardi, gets a huge pay raise, then declines into mediocrity. AKA pulling a Flacco.

Flacco had one of his best seasons last year and is on pace to throw for more yards than he ever has in his career. And he put up over 30 points in Foxboro in the playoffs last season...

Should I go on?

If I ever get really bored, i think I'd go through this thread and count all the excuses Pat has made.

(11-06-2015, 09:33 PM)6andcounting Wrote: If I ever get really bored, i think I'd go through this thread and count all the excuses Pat has made.

Pointing out that last season was one of his best is an "excuse"? What exactly am I excusing? 

(11-06-2015, 11:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Pointing out that last season was one of his best is an "excuse"? What exactly am I excusing? 

If average is one of his best...yikes.

(11-06-2015, 11:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Pointing out that last season was one of his best is an "excuse"? What exactly am I excusing? 

His declining performance.

(11-06-2015, 11:21 PM)6andcounting Wrote: His declining performance.

But if the data says his performance is not declining, how am I making an excuse? 

(11-07-2015, 07:46 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: But if the data says his performance is not declining, how am I making an excuse? 

If last season was his best and this season is worse, that's a decline. And it's not like he declined from MVP to 2nd team all-pro.

(11-07-2015, 09:20 AM)6andcounting Wrote: If last season was his best and this season is worse, that's a decline. And it's not like he declined from MVP to 2nd team all-pro.

Who said last was his best and this is his worst? I said last season was one of his best and this season he is on pace to throw for more yards than he has ever thrown for in his career. I don't think that's a bad thing... but maybe more yards is bad.

(11-07-2015, 07:46 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: But if the data says his performance is not declining, how am I making an excuse? 

Other than his yards per game, and a slight increase in completion %, he's doing worse (half way through the season) than last year.  

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm#passing::none

Edit: Looking at them again, it looks like he's being called on to do more since the D keeps allowing leads to flutter away and so his yards are up, but his INTs are too while his rating is down. And the increase in sacks might be him trying to hold the ball and make more plays? Im sure the o-line has more than a bit to do with it.

(11-07-2015, 09:29 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Who said last was his best and this is his worst?

You said last year was one of his best. Nobody said this year is his worst. 2014 Flacco was better than 2015 Flacco and you are rationalizing his decline by saying last year was one of his best. Hence, excusing his decline in performance.

(11-07-2015, 10:16 AM)GMDino Wrote: Other than his yards per game, and a slight increase in completion %, he's doing worse (half way through the season) than last year.  

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm#passing::none

Edit:  Looking at them again, it looks like he's being called on to do more since the D keeps allowing leads to flutter away and so his yards are up, but his INTs are too while his rating is down.  And the increase in sacks might be him trying to hold the ball and make more plays?  Im sure the o-line has more than a bit to do with it.

Yea, last season was one of his best. The original point I responded to was that he has declined since the Super Bowl. It seems like you're under the impression that I said he is doing better this season than last, which I did not and am not saying.

Besides the 2013 season where the offensive line, the running backs, and Flacco all performed poorly, there isn't anything to suggest he has declined since the Super Bowl considering how well he performed last year and the fact that he is on pace to set some personal records this season.

Double check your numbers, too, because he is on pace to have less sacks than any of his seasons besides last, though this may be you misreading and thinking I was comparing his 2015 performance to his 2014 performance. 

(11-07-2015, 10:23 AM)6andcounting Wrote: You said last year was one of his best. Nobody said this year is his worst. 2014 Flacco was better than 2015 Flacco and you are rationalizing his decline by saying last year was one of his best. Hence, excusing his decline in performance.

Sorry, I read "worst", not "worse". That's my bad. It is true that this season is not as good as last season, but you responded to me replying to someone who said he has declined since the Super Bowl.

You seem to be making the same error as Dino. 2014 and 2015 indicate that there has been no decline since the Super Bowl.

Quote:My biggest fear is that Dalton turns into Flacco. He has a monster year this season, brings home a Lombardi, gets a huge pay raise, then declines into mediocrity. AKA pulling a Flacco.

(11-07-2015, 10:27 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, last season was one of his best. The original point I responded to was that he has declined since the Super Bowl. It seems like you're under the impression that I said he is doing better this season than last, which I did not and am not saying.

Besides the 2013 season where the offensive line, the running backs, and Flacco all performed poorly, there isn't anything to suggest he has declined since the Super Bowl considering how well he performed last year and the fact that he is on pace to set some personal records this season.

Double check your numbers, too, because he is on pace to have less sacks than any of his seasons besides last, though this may be you misreading and thinking I was comparing his 2015 performance to his 2014 performance. 

Yeah just comparing to last season.

(11-07-2015, 10:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yeah just comparing to last season.

I figured. I was responding to the claim that he has declined since 2012. Obviously no one can argue this season has been better than last.

(11-07-2015, 10:30 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Sorry, I read "worst", not "worse". That's my bad. It is true that this season is not as good as last season, but you responded to me replying to someone who said he has declined since the Super Bowl.

You seem to be making the same error as Dino. 2014 and 2015 indicate that there has been no decline since the Super Bowl.

The reality is regular season Joe Flacco is and has always been "Average Joe". Joe plays better in recent playoff games (started horribly), but when you discuss just regular season as you guys seem to be, Joe is mediocre regardless how you analyze him.

But, he was mediocre in the regular season prior to Ozzie giving him a huge and I mean huge contract. Ozzie rewarded average and no disputing that now.

(11-07-2015, 11:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The reality is regular season Joe Flacco is and has always been "Average Joe". Joe plays better in recent playoff games (started horribly), but when you discuss just regular season as you guys seem to be, Joe is mediocre regardless how you analyze him.

But, he was mediocre in the regular season prior to Ozzie giving him a huge and I mean huge contract. Ozzie rewarded average and no disputing that now.

I was under the impression that he rewarded top tier playoff performance. Let's say Peyton Manning isn't intercepted by Corey Graham in overtime. The Broncos go on to win 38 to 35. Is Flacco offered $20m a year? If the answer is "no", and it is, then we can agree that your statement "Ozzie rewarded average and no disputing that now" is false. 

Reports say that Ozzie offered him $15m at the start of 2012. I think it's safe to say that the Super Bowl, not the regular season, raised that to $20m. 

(11-07-2015, 11:44 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I was under the impression that he rewarded top tier playoff performance. Let's say Peyton Manning isn't intercepted by Corey Graham in overtime. The Broncos go on to win 38 to 35. Is Flacco offered $20m a year? If the answer is "no", and it is, then we can agree that your statement "Ozzie rewarded average and no disputing that now" is false. 

Reports say that Ozzie offered him $15m at the start of 2012. I think it's safe to say that the Super Bowl, not the regular season, raised that to $20m. 

Who cares why Ozzie made a bad business decision?

In the end, Ozzie ignored regular season Joe and paid him like the best QB in the NFL. The facts told Ozzie he was average for 16 games each year, he ignored it and paid him anyway. Ozzie could have franchised him for 2 years versus paying him top tier money for 7 years. You can keep defending the great Oz all you want, but his decisions post new CBA are biting the team in the rear on all fronts, you homer in you just will not allow you to see how the best GM in football has become a mediocre GM the past 4 or 5 years.

(11-07-2015, 01:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Who cares why Ozzie made a bad business decision?

Clearly you do since you responded to a discussion of his performance since the Super Bowl with an unrelated comment on your opinion as to why Ozzie paid Flacco what he did. 

(11-07-2015, 01:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Who cares why Ozzie made a bad business decision?

In the end, Ozzie ignored regular season Joe and paid him like the best QB in the NFL. The facts told Ozzie he was average for 16 games each year, he ignored it and paid him anyway. Ozzie could have franchised him for 2 years versus paying him top tier money for 7 years. You can keep defending the great Oz all you want, but his decisions post new CBA are biting the team in the rear on all fronts, you homer in you just will not allow you to see how the best GM in football has become a mediocre GM the past 4 or 5 years.

Franchising him would've been more expensive. Paying him top tier money for 3 not 7

(11-07-2015, 06:05 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Franchising him would've been more expensive. Paying him top tier money for 3 not 7

You forgot to consider he next 10 years of his career of which the next 4 he will be grossly overpaid

If you think Ozzie thinks he made a great business decision on the Flacco contract, you are not as smart as I thought you were

It was a bad contract and a costly contract that will effect them for years. Brady is a 15 million cap hit and Flacco is a 28 and then 32 million cap hit.. Why would Flacco now take less money when he still has a ton of guaranteed money he gets if they cut him?

I love the fact the Ravens have become very bad handling the cap since 2011.